| Author | Message | ||
     Xb1125r |
I have to say that Geoff is a very consistent rider, i have noticed he is keeping it on the 1:23s. reminds me of Lorenzo how they can do it lap after lap | ||
| Xb1125r |
I was looking at the results from the races. Danny and Geoff were off +/- 30 seconds behind the leader. according to testing the suzukis are doing one sec +/- then the EBRs and KTMs. would it be fair to decrease the weight AMA added to EBR to make it more fair! | ||
| Xb1125r |
Young just broke the 1:21s | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hard to generalize based on one track, particularly when that track is Daytona. It's an odd duck. The physics advantage of a four in a racing application is really substantial though... | ||
| Bads1 |
electronics... electronics... electronics | ||
| Xb1125r |
i hear electronics, but to what exactly. some examples or pics would be usuful | ||
| Bads1 |
would it be fair to decrease the weight AMA added to EBR to make it more fair! What weight ??? They have not added weight this year. Rules are different this year. | ||
| Bads1 |
http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/about/index.cfm?cid =20898 | ||
| Amafan |
The weight limit in the Superbike class is 370 lbs for both 1000 4s and 1200 twins this year . They never raised the weight for the EBR,the EBR is so light in stock form,355 lbs, that they had to add 25 lbs to make the 380 lbs weight limit for 1200cc twins last year. The weight limit for 1200cc twins was 390 lbs in 2009,so it has gone down 20 lbs in the last 4 years. In the DSB class the weight limit is 355 lbs for 600cc 4s and 385 lbs for twins over 750cc, so the EBR's and KTM's have nothing to complain about anymore, they are just down on HP and will struggle at HP tracks like Daytona. | ||
| Xb1125r |
to me its seems like a penalty and any average joe. if you have to add weight to your stock bike to please the inline engines. does anyone know how much of a difference is there in weight between the suzuki and BMW! | ||
| Bads1 |
to me its seems like a penalty and any average joe. if you have to add weight to your stock bike to please the inline engines What??? EBR built a bike that was lighter then the Superbike spec rules. Suzuki built a bike that was heavier then the rule. Suzuki got to come down and Ebr had to come up. As far as the BMW?? I'll bet that Peagrams bike is at 370 race trim. All the teams will get down to the min. weight by the oz. if they can. | ||
| Amafan |
The EBR 1190RS is a $40K racebike,with the trick parts all ready on it,and only 100 of them were put on sale for the public, that is why it is so light. Bikes like the Suzuki GSXR 1000 are mass produced on a assembly line, and 10's of thousands are built for the public for about $13k, so they are a lot heavier in stock form . | ||
| Deanh8 |
Damn they are booking it deep into the 1:21's... no way the EBR's will get even close to that. Eslick struggled to get into the 1:22's Really sad to see, I was hoping they would do better after seeing yesterdays early practice results. | ||
| Xb1125r |
i would say this to the AMA. get young and blake to do a test session on the EBRS. if they can get 1:21s then the bikes are ok. if they can't as I am sure, then the EBRS should not be required to add that much weight to their bikes to please the inlines. fair is fair right! | ||
| Bads1 |
I have no idea how you think some things up. This isn't racing and two Suzuki has had plenty of time to develop that bike. EBR has a road ahead of them. Now the road got a bit easier financially. Wow man you just don't get it.lol | ||
| Bads1 |
BTW Young and Blake are the same person. | ||
| Xb1125r |
lol, i was thinking Hayes | ||
| Xb1125r |
bads, it just does not seem fair for EBR to be penalize for making lighter bikes. how can you penalize design! | ||
| Amafan |
NO, not fair, this a production class, and no series in the world does not have a weight limit, even MotoGP, Erik Buell know the rules,he could of made his bike heavier,and cheaper,but did not. | ||
| Reepicheep |
So Amafan... do you believe that a 1200 CC limit for a twin versus a 1000 CC limit for the inline fours is equitable? | ||
| Amafan |
The cc limits seem fair to me, they seem to work in WSBK . 1200cc twins won the WSBK title in 2008 and 2011, and 1000cc fours won the title in 2009,and 2010 . The 1200cc twins even got a weight increase this year, and Checa won 1 race and crashed out of the lead in the other race ,on his 1198cc Ducati twin . | ||
| Imonabuss |
There isn't a bike on the grid as inexpensive as the EBR 1190RS. Anyone who actually knows what the front running bikes cost to put on the grid knows that. EBR does not have the money to build sub $20K bikes, so they made the closest thing to a real Superbike available to the public. Cycle World spent $65K building a Suzuki to compete in the top ten, not counting traction control. Suzuki and Yamaha are running $100K+ traction control systems, although that will be cost controlled next year down to $30K or such. EBR is about doing the most for the least. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Do the 1190s have air restrictors, like the 1198 have in WSBK ??? DO the 1190s have any electronics ?? How advanced are they, compared to Suzuki and Yamaha ???? | ||
| Amafan |
Yes ,in race trim,the EBR is probably cheaper then most of the bikes on the grid, but in stock form it is lighter, because it was built to race out of the box and the others were not. That is what I was arguing about, because XB1125r thinks that it should race at 355 lbs not 370 lbs like all the other bikes on the grid . | ||
| Steve_a |
The 1190s each have steel cables that run from the throttle grip on the right handlebar to directly activate throttle butterflies in the intake tract. Wheel spin is controlled via these cables by manual manipulation of the throttle grip, as preferred both by your favorite deity and Jeremy McWilliams. | ||
| Blake |
No restrictors in AMA SBK, but much less leeway for engine modification compared to WSBK tech rules, so it's not an issue. | ||
| Xb1125r |
are you guys talking dry or wet weight | ||
| Bads1 |
I know the 1190 has no electronics..... but for how long??? Its been said it doesn't need it. Who says that??? The riders??? Most bikes are fitted with it now. Suzuki has two geeks. One per a team to dial in those bikes. Theres the 300 grand. Big fat payroll !!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
It seems to me that the only prayer for a 1200 cc twin to compete with a 1000 cc inline four is with some kind of uber-voodo in materials, as the twin is at a 50% disadvantage for most problems relating to RPM. Two pistons means each piston has twice the mass of the four. Two pistons means twice the swept area (piston / cylinder wall speed) of the four. Two pistons means half the number of valves of a four. Its a VERY significant advantage. That's a good argument that Ducatti managed to win in WSBK anyway, but its flawed if the way Ducatti did it was illegal in AMA Superbike. In fact, if the way Ducatti managed to pull it off is in conflict with AMA modification rules, your point probably *supports* the assertion that the AMA rules are hurting twins, not the other way around. (I don't know the answer, I'm just asking, and enjoy learning and geeking out about it). | ||
| Reepicheep |
Or let me ask the question in an easier way... If the technology that 1200 cc Ducati's applied to the twins were applied to an inline four, would the inline four then be at an advantage again? I understand the desire to manage CC's in racing classes. And weights. But why not total number of valves? Total swept cylinder wall? Fuel consumption? Whatever you choose is going to be somewhat arbitrary, so it will always be a squishy and contentious area to try and make them equitable. I think the AMA is doing a decent job, but that the rules make it a little easier for an inline four to compete. |
