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Mtkawboy
| Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 07:37 pm: |
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What sensor in the FI causes really cold blooded running in an 07 XB12Ss ? If not that then what else will cause it. The bike is nearly unrideable for short rides under 5 miles |
Froggy
| Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 07:45 pm: |
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The engine temperature sensor. The bike runs rich when it is cold. No different than a choke on a carburetor equipped vehicle. Air cooled bikes don't like short rides, it doesn't get anything up to temperature to burn off condensation. I bet if you popped off the clutch inspection window that you will have a nice oil and water frappachino. Watercooled bikes aren't much better in this regard, no vehicle likes short trips, it is hard on the motor, transmission, tires, and everything else that heat cycles. It is however perfect for an electric bike. |
Panhead_dan
| Posted on Thursday, February 09, 2012 - 08:01 pm: |
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If you let it idle and warm up before you take off, it'll run right but still won't evaporate the condensation as mentioned above. Any engine is this way. Most current non-Buell FI systems don't need the warm up in order to run right but it's still a good practice. |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Friday, February 10, 2012 - 10:01 pm: |
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Well Ive been riding since 1960 and have owned in excess of 50 bikes all air cooled and this is the only fuel injected one and the only one that bucks & stumbles for 3 or 4 miles before it runs right. Are you telling me this is normal, because its not on my other 14 bikes that have a choke on them ? Just asking is all. I dont take short rides with it because its a PIA to ride. |
Littlebuggles
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 12:35 am: |
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My carb'd Cyclone is a lot nicer to ride on cold winter mornings, as far as engine behavior is concerned anyway. Much smoother to start, and cleaner response under gas. Too bad my STT is set up with wind protection and heated gear wiring and grips... My Suzuki GS500 was as bad as the XB, had to run that thing till the cases were totally warm is I didn't want it to stall under throttle when it was cold out. |
Panhead_dan
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 11:02 am: |
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When I said "any engine is this way", I was referring to the condensation. To be clearer on the point, let the engine idle for a few minutes before you ride it. If it still doesn't run correctly, there is something wrong. If it does, yes it's normal. I let my '06 warm up to full operating temp before I ride it every time. It runs great this way. If I start it cold and ride it without the warm up, it runs like crap for a while. |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:21 pm: |
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I know nothing about FI but Id sure think 5 minutes would do it. Problem is this is cruiser country, the nearest place that knows anything about Buells is NHRS, about 600 miles away. I doubt the local Harley shop would even look at it. When it warms up out here Ill haul it to Denver I guess |
Panhead_dan
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:27 pm: |
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5 minutes should do it. Seems logical to assume something is wrong. When you turn on the key, after the check engine light goes off, does it come back on for a few seconds? Is it on all the time? |
Panhead_dan
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 03:29 pm: |
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Has the exhaust and / or air filter been replaced with something that's not stock, factory parts? |
Starter
| Posted on Saturday, February 11, 2012 - 08:52 pm: |
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Its a very fine line getting the warm up and emissions tuned on a cold engine - and getting harder by the year. Make sure you throttle sensor is correctly zeroed before chasing anything else. |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 04:11 pm: |
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The bike is 100% bone stock except for 1 inch handlebar risers and the right side air scoop. Where can I find some info on zeroing the TPS ? Ill try that first, then the Hog shop, then NHRS if needed. I really like the bike but it drives me nuts. Theres very little condensation problems in Montana with mostly single digit or low double digit humidity. Nothing in the oil, I just changed it |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 04:20 pm: |
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I found the TPS deal but Ill have to have it done, I dont have the equipment or brains for that. Thanks for all the help & advise. I like carburetors better, I can fix them. |
Mesozoic
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 05:42 pm: |
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You have tune it. There's tables for startup fuel enrichment and while warming up. I've tuned the crap out of mine and it starts and drives fine immediately after startup regardless of the temps. Not sure why it wasn't tuned properly from the factory. |
Terrys1980
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 05:48 pm: |
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quote:Not sure why it wasn't tuned properly from the factory.
EPA |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:00 pm: |
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Is this something a former Buell dealer could do or will they just do it to the factory specs ? |
Terrys1980
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:11 pm: |
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Yes most HD dealerships can dyno tune your Buell. |
Mesozoic
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:33 pm: |
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Not sure if it's EPA or if Buell simply didn't have the TIME to tune things perfectly. The stock tables and cold start enrichment is too rich... my '08 wouldn't even maintain an idle for longer than 10 seconds at a time when I first got it. Simply stated, too rich. Since then, I've spent a lot of time tuning the bike and now it really runs great. Planning to add the MAP/baro and dual O2 upgrade when I find time for even better driveability. |
Terrys1980
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 09:53 pm: |
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I'm not sure why the cold start enrichment is so rich but is has remained unchanged from '05-'08. Unless your altitude while riding changes 1000 feet or more regularly then I don't think the baro will do you much good. |
Terrys1980
| Posted on Sunday, February 12, 2012 - 10:04 pm: |
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Or if you plan on running forced induction. |
Mesozoic
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 01:22 am: |
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Wasn't planning to turbo, but I live at 2500ft and regularly vary between 1000ft MSL and 9000ft in and around Tucson, AZ where I live. |
Mtkawboy
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:18 pm: |
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Mine is too lean, not too rich, Ive never see a bike stumble and buck from too rich. When spring gets here Ill do some checking around and if they cant do it here at Beartooth HD Ill haul it 530 miles to NHRS in Longmont Colorado |
Panhead_dan
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:22 pm: |
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There is a very good video on youtube showing how to do a TPS reset. Might be worth a look before you go to a lot of trouble and expense. |
Littlebuggles
| Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 - 07:49 pm: |
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Sorry I don't know how to imbed the video, here's the link. My Stt is running like poo at the moment. think it needs the ecm tuned, calibrated, whatever... I'll check with my HD shop tomorrow and see if they can do it for me, otherwise I'm looking for a good deal on a laptop, or packing my desktop down to my garage (after downloading ecm spy) to see if fueling is off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i33__Qkvhn4&feature =results_main&playnext=1&list=PL029C6D654769AE97 |
Firemanjim
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 01:45 am: |
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Good luck getting a HD shop to be able to tune a Buell, doubt any of them understand learned fuel or can use ECM-Spy. And Kawboy,you need to get the bike looked at to see what it is doing. AFR may be skewed rich affecting all the running. |
Mesozoic
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 10:44 am: |
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Can somebody post or point me to a post that has a photo of the '09-10 models' secondary O2 location on the header, please? |
Littlebuggles
| Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2012 - 11:17 am: |
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Front header, at the bend. Circled in red.
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Cycledoc59
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 09:42 am: |
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My '06 XB12Ss was a pain to ride at low speeds because of being too lean, even after finally warming up. An EJK solved it; and still get 50mpg. http://www.electronicjetkit.com/Sportbike/default. asp I can ride along now at under 2K without lurching and sputtering along. Good stuff! I left the O2 sensors connected, but on my 1125R, with an EJK in place, both sensors are disconnected, and it's very happy. I need to try the XB w/sensors unplugged. |
Firemanjim
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 02:50 pm: |
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Interesting, have yet to see one. Be interested in how it works with the "learned fuel area" of the Buell. Read all of their stuff and they really do not explain it, kind of dance around it.Want to know how they are sensing load.Seems they do not even tap into your TP signal---- And what gear you are in. (Message edited by firemanjim on February 16, 2012) |
Cycledoc59
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 05:49 pm: |
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Doesn't matter a lot to me, so long as it works well; I've used an EJK or the earlier version, called a Techlusion in 4 different bikes of my own, and 3 or 4 in customer bikes. http://www.dobeckperformance.com/ From '96 to about '02, the BMW oilhead bikes had a terrible time with surging issues; the Techlusion smoothed them right out. The difference in my XB is remarkable, and even better with the 1125R.... The Techlusion was not very adjustable, and was fiddly to do. The EJK is very adjustable, and really does the trick. Set up is best done on a dyno, but they are shipped with recommended settings. The ones in my XB and 1125 are still at factory settings. The XB has a custom exhaust system that I made, so was likely even leaner than stock. The 1125 is stock. Other than the piggy-back plugs, they can often be moved from one bike to another. One that I had in an Aprilia, I later installed in a Harley 1340. The EJK is rebranded and sold under a number of names, like Jardine, or JDJetting; http://www.pbase.com/jdjetting1/image/124775394 |
Mesozoic
| Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2012 - 06:26 pm: |
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Running the ECM in open loop defeats the purpose of EFI. You may as well be running a carb if you're running open loop. BTW, I get 65 mpg (calculated) with my '08 in closed loop on the highway. |
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