| Author |
Message |
    
Jcs64
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 03:34 pm: | 
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I noticed the low voltage too.
Even at 2100 rpm you were under 12v.
Just a wild guess, but could the ecm be upping the rpm to try and get the battery charged.
Not that you wanted something else to throw money at the ecm needs the correct voltage to work correctly. My '00 X1 wont even fire the plugs to start if the battery is low, itll crank fine but no spark!
Try charging your battery up before the next test.
jeff |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 03:43 pm: |
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batt voltage is 12v at 3k, and the batt is reasonably new. Will charge and keep up during next test. Interesting about trying to up the volatge with rpm; voltage regulator problem? |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 04:19 pm: |
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Wouln't worry about a VR at this time.
I don't think the ECM is smart enough to adjust throttle (via TPS) to obtain "ideal" voltage. Otherwise, you'd have seen that before these issue(s) cropped up.
Make sure during all this idling that you do put the battery on a charger occasionally.
Regarding the TPS cal, if you have a Buell Service Manual, pg 4-96 calls out how to calibrate, but as noted above, there must be a way to check it without the "scanalyzer". I'm sure there is a way to do it via ECMSpy but I don't know what that is. There has to be a way to set it up at the intake with a multimeter.
I still think your TPS is faulty. Have you run any of this past Al at American Sport Bike and asked his advice? |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 04:19 pm: |
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ECM Config:
ECM Runtime:
between 215-218C engine temp is where the idle starts to go up by itself. I can initiate this by a quick rev and let it hang @ 2K. I even let it start to do that and then artificially up the voltage with the batt charger with no change.
Obviously, heat is causing something to change. The question is what. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 04:38 pm: |
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best closed loop idle I can manage:
I doubt it will start or idle cold like this. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 06:28 pm: |
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You said your bike has 40,000 miles, I wonder if you've ever changed the injector O-rings?....
a leaking injector might causing these symptoms.
Why do you not try to make a log?..........it might be worth to make it and a log with a warm and hot engine might give a clue what's going wrong. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 06:55 pm: |
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38371 miles. Injector o-rings? No, not me. Is that hard? You say COULD cause the problem, is the only way to tell to change them?
I'm having these problems because of a broken throttle shaft. Replacing a shaft shouldn't cause all these other problems. It really ran like a champ before CENTRAL TEXAS HARLEY broke the shaft while trying to do a TPS reset after replacing the cam sensor and buying an ETS from them (I did the cam sensor). Before that, my only problem was a rear cylinder miss at low speeds and idle.
Making a log: with ECMSpy? How do I do that, and who can read the data for me to really see what the problem is? |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 07:02 pm: |
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with the latest config, it will start and idle ever so low. I'm sure once warm, it will be back where I was. However, that's simply not right with FI; it should be able to idle smoothly and consistently regardless of ambient or engine temp.
Should I leave it in closed loop idle and open loop learn? |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 07:57 pm: |
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Yank the injectors and swap them. Look at the O-rings while you have them out. The front and rear injectors are the same on an X1, but only the rear cylinder affects AFV. If it is an injector issue, this may flush out the problem.
Start it up and watch the temp in ECMspy. It should monotonically increase up to the point where it is steady state at idle. To get it higher, you'd need to ride it and log. If it's a new head temp sensor, it probably isn't that. But I've sure seen a lot of issues caused by head temp sensors.
To make a log, just click on the disc drive icon at the top of the screen. It will record a date/time stamp named file in the megalog directory under the ECMspy program directory. Unless you're running windows 7, where it will hide it in the C:\Users\username\Appdata\Local\VirtualStore\Progr am Files (X86)\ECMSpy\megalog directory. You'll need to get the megalogviewer program to make sense of the log, though.
Al |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:12 pm: |
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my disc icon has a big fat X!
It might be a few days before I can swap injectors, but sounds reasonable.
Once again, thanks all for interest and input! |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 08:39 pm: |
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yes, it has a big x on it. Click it and that x turns into a green check, meaning that it is recording. Hit it again, the X comes back, and it stops recording. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 23, 2012 - 09:37 pm: |
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Thanks.
What is 'proper operating temp?'
Can I use a timing light to properly check my timing?
Do the injectors need any special tools? |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 05:49 am: |
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Should I leave it in closed loop idle and open loop learn?....... NOT PROBLEM AT ALL, OR AT LEAST UNTIL YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED.
What is 'proper operating temp?' ....ABOUT 160º
Do the injectors need any special tools?.......YES http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/5029.html
Setting the cam position sensor timing. How do you verify/set cam position sensor timing?
1. Remove sensor cover (drill out two rivets).
2. Raise the back wheel off the floor and raise side stand
3. Remove Timing inspection plug.
4. Put bike into 5th gear to ease fine turning of the engine.
5. Turn Ignition on.
6. Select Diagnostics page in ECM Spy and connect to the ECM.
7. Rotate the rear wheel in a normal/forwards direction until the timing mark is just visible inside the inspection hole, it must be exactly centered.
8. Rotate the wheel very slowly until the CPS value in ECM Spy increases to 5. This is the exact point of firing.
9. Check the cam position sensor. It should be dead centered with the timing mark. If not, adjust so that it is and recheck (if to the left, then the timing is advanced, if to the right of the hole, it is retarded)
If your idle hovers around 2000 rpm and it comes down if you let out the clutch slightly, you have an intake leak.
Before replacing the injector o-rings, try spraying them when engine in hot. If it coughs, dies, or idles differently when you spray, you've got a leak. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 04:21 pm: |
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Look at this post a few years ago, as you might be interested:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?47623/410750 |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 06:47 pm: |
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I have checked repeatedly for intake leaks, as you did, and nothing. Your AFV stayed normal, where mine is dropping to 81 and running VERY hot. The low AFV indicates a rich mixture that is being compensated, and this rich condition seems to be happening after warm up. Right now, Injectors seem to be the focus, perhaps one or both change their behavior with heat. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:18 am: |
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They were the same symptoms, afv dropped of 100/105 to 94/95 and at idle the RPM hanging at 2k before dropping to 1050.
And always after the engine fully warmed up ( from 210 degrees centigrades onwards, engine in hot).
Also I noticed that the engine temperature is higher than normal, when I say hot, the heat from the engine running for ten minutes was hotter than ever.
I had done several TPS reset, I replaced intake gaskets, injectors o-ring, O2 sensor, IAT sensor, and ET sensor, idling problems was still there.
It was directly related to when the engine was fully warmed up, and it has a logical explanation "The cold Enrichment add fuel up to 210º.
I did a lot of the same repairing trouble shooting and shot gunning the bike with parts and it turned out to be the fuel pump regulator, also I substituted the fuel pump filter.
Hope helps. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 12:14 pm: |
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Swapped injectors: no change.
Started datalogging when the batt on the laptop died. Will let things cool down and try again. I do not have megalog viewer; could I send the file to someone to look it over? (I wouldn't know what I was looking at even if I did have the viewer)
So far, I feel I have eliminated all but the pump and regulator, which shouldn't really be affected by heat. Is there a part # for the regulator and a supplier?
Thanks, all |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 01:11 pm: |
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If the fuel pressure is too high, AFV would drop.
I have no problem to take a look in your log.
Try make a log with ecmspy when running bad and well, and log when idle is bad and when idle is good (VERY IMPORTANT "IDLE CLOSED LOOP"), and send them to me to my email buellisticx1@yahoo.es, also send me your eeprom text file.
The only problem is that I´m no native speaker, so english is not my first language and still find some difficulties to express what I have in my mind. But sure that we understand
No need to hurry, just send the logs as you make them. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:03 pm: |
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"If the fuel pressure is too high, AFV would drop. "
Yes it would in deed. Back to my original idea that you need to check the pressure at the schrader valve.
That gauge to test fuel pres is only $44 and you can pry shop the net and find it cheaper.
I keep hoping to click this thread and read that you fixed it! Hurry up will you!
Haha, Jeff |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:43 pm: |
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Curve Ball!!! Put in the stock ECM out of frustration and everything (so far) works fine. Will load a new map to the Race ECM in a day or so and try it again. In the mean time, I'll ride to work and see what the AFV does.
Should I have it in closed loop idle AND open loop learning for this ride? I know it won't hurt, but how SHOULD it be for normal riding?
The map BuellisticX1 sent me is the 'world' version, whereas what I have is US only. Which is better? I ask because I know Europe has that unwritten 100hp agreement among bike makers. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 05:50 am: |
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NEW NEWS
I have watched carefully the log you send me, every things works ok, except the SPARK ADVANCE, that from 215 ° up suddenly jumps/ kicking about 1400 rpm. This makes me think that your ECM is toasted.
I compared it with the recordings I did with my 99 X 1 years ago, and just had the same mods than you ( V&H muffler, race ecm, K&N filter, NGK plugs.), also with the stock ECM that you sent me and that is not normal, it's a big issue that you have on your bike and this explains all your problems..............
I know/read the buellers having issues turned out to be their ECM shorted out, and the problems always in hot.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
BAD
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
GOOD
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
BAD
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
GOOD
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Have a Look at RPM&spark advance front and rear
(Message edited by buellisticx1 on January 26, 2012) |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 06:14 am: |
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You could try to clean the ECM connections for a light coating of corrosion formed on the ECM's male pin connectors. Clean all the pins with contact cleaner and put dielectric grease on the ECM connectors
The corrosion is hardly visible and you have to remove the ECM and scrape one of the pins with a small screw in order to actually see the corrosion.
I will cross my fingers and see how it goes. I shall be very interested to see what happens.
Please keep us posted. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 08:11 am: |
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I will look at the ECM and clean the contacts. Could this problem be fixed with a new map? |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 09:23 am: |
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Maybe yes or maybe not......I don't know......... If It were me, I would load the race eeprom I sent you. Just to be doubly sure.
What firmware (version) is your stock ECM?...... or What version firmware of the eeprom says the ECMSpy?......
By chance is your ECM firmware "BUEGC0B”, if so, it will not be compatible to loading in
The ECM version (firmware) so the ECM version is dependent on the firmware, not the EEPROM data.
ECM COMPATIBLE:
1.- FOR X1 USA ONLY (BUEJA120- X1 US VERSION)
2.- FOR X1 INTERNATIONAL ONLY (BUELL KA210- X1 STREET).
3.- BUELL RACE WORLDWIDE (BUELL KA210 X1-RACE).
They are perfectly compatible to load in. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 01:44 pm: |
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My Race ECM firmware version is BUEJA120.
My Stock ECM firmware version is BUEGC0B0. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 02:31 pm: |
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My Race ECM firmware version is BUEJA120.... This is compatible to loading in...., but it's works bad,not?... anyway load the eeprom race I sent you in it to see how goes and let me know. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 03:45 pm: |
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Just something to keep in mind. If the bike used to run fine w/ the maps that you have, Changing to new maps most likly wont help.
The maps dont change or go bad once there loaded. You may be able to cover up a problem buy tweaking things, but the problem will still be there.
Now whats up w/ the curve ball you threw?
Did you continue to run for a while w/ the stock ECM to see if it worked properly?
Jeff |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 04:25 pm: |
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You have nothing to lose in loading the entire Race EEPROM I sent him.
The Race eeprom USA and worldwide is the same, the only difference is in the fuel maps, and the best fuel maps are those that fit the AFV about 100 and the test ride is ok! |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 05:03 pm: |
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Riding on stock ECM right now. Not as violent as the race one, kinda flat at full throttle. I can tell it's a milder tune.
Could I just load the race map into this ECM?
What makes an ECM a RACE one?
Will try to load the EEPROM from BuellisticX1. Any chance my data got corrupted and that's the actual problem?
At least I'm back on the road, but not putting rice-burners to shame. |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 05:24 pm: |
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Before you go flashing EEPROMs, pull the one from your bike and upload it so we can have a look at it.
Or email it to me terrydsmithjr@gmail.com |
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