| Author | Message | ||
     Slaughter |
ANYTHING that E B R does is miraculous. A few weeks ago when Sunny and I were visiting family in the area, we dropped in to visit E B R at lunchtime. Bought pizza for the ENTIRE COMPANY. Trust me, they just aren't really big! | ||
| Blake |
After comments made last year, it says they don't think they can be competitive with their RC8 Superbike, and so don't care to compete. "their heading a different direction" Right, away from trying to compete in AMA Superbike. KTMs decision to exit AMA Pro has zero to do with Erik Buell Racing Except possibly for the fact that EBR beat them and also has a solid sponsorship contract through the 2013 season. (Message edited by Blake on December 05, 2011) | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake KTM finished a 7th ahead of EBR last year one time. The bikes specs show that it more then capible.Also every race it did do last year it was a top ten. Its funny how a AMA racing tread has to turn into a EBR or a Buell thing. This is racing.BTW where does it say they don't think they can be competitive??? | ||
| Elvis |
Slight correction: Every race the KTM finished it was top 10. Problem was it only finished 2 of 5 races, and maybe that was part of the reason the support was withdrawn. Officially the KTM was: RD 6, Race 1: 7 RD 6, Race 2: 9 RD 7, Race 1: DNS RD 9, Race 1: 22 RD 9, Race 2: 18 (Message edited by elvis on December 05, 2011) | ||
| Tony216 |
Slaughter, that was a really cool thing to do for those guys. They are such great people there. I get the feeling that the 1190 is a good second rider away from something good. As for the rest of the AMA SB class, I'm hoping with the rules stabilizing and with a stabilizing economy, we'll see the AMA paddock full of bike again. | ||
| Tony216 |
Developing a bike is difficult. That applies to KTM and EBR. | ||
| Court |
>>>Developing a bike is difficult. That applies to KTM and EBR. It's HUGELY expensive and HUGELY complex. Few, absent those who've been in the business, have a proper appreciation of the costs. KTM spent an inordinate sum last year. I, as a former KTM owner, am a big fan and really enjoyed watching them at Mid-Ohio. It would be difficult, based on my personal experience, to marshall a compelling sponsorship package based on the results from last year. I've been involved in sponsorship deals related to motorcycles and Indianapolis race cars. It's business. In the case of the Indy deal, which was done in partnership with Penzoil, there was a weekly report that detailed the number of seconds the car was THE picture on the tube and the number of seconds it appeared anywhere IN the picture. The math, in most simple terms was "X millions / X Seconds vs. the cost of buying advertising and the cost of the related hospitality". Others, based on their personal experience, will disagree. That's the internet for ya. By the way . . . if you want to try your hand at it . . . put together your best package . . find a sponsor (you'll be looking for about $4.2 million) keep your 15% cut and forget work this year. Lots of folks doing it . . some well, some not so much. It's business. | ||
| Davegess |
forget work this year. Not mean you won't work, just not for someone else. You will spend every waking hour and many that you should be sleeping trying to make this thing work. It is incredibly hard work and one must be driven to do. Regular Type A personalities won't make it, it requires AAA. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Except possibly for the fact that EBR beat them and also has a solid sponsorship contract through the 2013 season. " Because EBR has a sponsorship deal KTM didnt want to compete in the series anymore? Really? And if you think KTM is out because EBR beat them, then how do you feel about the yamaha graves team, yosh suzuki etc? shouldnt EBR quit AMA American Sport Bike now since they were beat by those teams? Your opinion here makes no sense. Your reasoning for KTM leaving (cause EBR beat them, and EBR has sponsorship deals for a few years) isnt reasonable at all. | ||
| Davegess |
KTM left because they couldn't make the numbers work. Either the factory did not want to put up enough money to help a team compete or the whole deal was dependent on a sponsor and the lost the sponsor. I suspect it had little to do with how they did; some very successful race teams are having a hard time raising money these days, and more to do with hooking up with the right people at the right time. | ||
| Court |
I'm assuming the 22nd and 18th place finishes were DNF? I didn't follow their races closely except the ones I attended. They put one a nice, with an impressive performance, at Mid-Ohio. Just for the sake of comparison . . . . . Can you imagine if EBR had raced 5 times last year and failed to finish in 3 of the 5? I'm just saying that the standards of comparison (and I'm the first to concede the Buell bias of the site and myself) are markedly different. I doubt, in KTM's case, their withdrawal had anything, at least on their part (it may on their potential sponsors) to do with their performance. P.S. . . . . talking about performance . . . my little buddy had a good last couple days | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think it's the other way around. KTM was planning on racing at their home track, Mid Ohio. KTM's US headquarters are in Ohio, and they have a very close relationship with that track. Remember the KTM truck showing up for a private evening closed KTM factory session after the second Buell Inside Pass day? They waited until we left before bringing anything out. After the showing at Mid Ohio, which I think frankly suprised even them, they got excited and scraped together enough $$ to run a few more races. But then Filmore (who seems like a talented kid) broke some bikes and bones, and wins started coming a lot harder. So I think its not so much that they changed their mind about a factory team, I think its more along the lines of never really intending to run one in the first place. I think they were running one race for the publicity and some street cred with the RC8, were happy it went well, stretched it out a bit, but then were hoping somebody else would decide to run their bike... which is a tricky thing in the current climate. Or, based on the experiences of two close friends that ride orange, they were going to run this season but needed a new handlebar top clamp because the factory one randomly cracked (hope it didn't kill you buddy!), ordered it two months ago, and know it won't come off backorder in time for next years season.  | ||
| Svh |
Fillmore got thrown from the bike and had concussion issues if I remember correctly and that is why they did not race round 8 and his less productive finishes towards the end of the year. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Court, could you please elaborate more on your post earlier about KTM leaving AMA showing how great EBR is or however you said it? | ||
| Trojan |
Except possibly for the fact that EBR beat them and also has a solid sponsorship contract through the 2013 season. Please Blake. That is scraping the barrel. Do you really think that had any effect on KTM (US) working out a budget to go racing in 2012? If that was a consideration then the only teams racing would be the winner from last year. Everyone else would decide that racing isn't worth doing becaue they lost (including EBR) and racing would collapse. The decision by KTM was purely a commercial one made because they would only race if thier costs were covered by sponsorship. If this wasn't the case then they wouldn't race. You only have to look at KTM's global road race strategy to see that pretty much every team is covered by Red Bull or Motorex title sponsorship that pays most/all of their costs. There are very very few genuine 'privateer' teams road racing KTM at high level and none by the factory at the factory's cost (even in IDM German Superbike). Next years factory entry into Moto3 will likewise be covered by Red Bull or Motorex of Switzerland. The other teams using KTM/Kalex bikes will have their own sponsors to help pay. | ||
| Bads1 |
Can you imagine if EBR had raced 5 times last year and failed to finish in 3 of the 5? And it could very well happen. As far as your stats... Round 7 I believe they didn't race. Court I love how you butter things up.LOL | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Also examples of Buells doing poorly - XBRR, I remember reading a lot of negative press after the problems they had racing them. Yeah, people are harder on Buell than many other brands due to the connection to Harley or for whatever other reason they might have (it aint normal cause its not a I4, its a harley yuck, its not watercooled.....I dont know, people have terrible reasons for automatically dismissing the brand) | ||
| Trojan |
Yeah, people are harder on Buell than many other brands due to the connection to Harley or for whatever other reason they might have (it aint normal cause its not a I4, its a harley yuck, its not watercooled.....I dont know, people have terrible reasons for automatically dismissing the brand) I also think a large part of the negative press the XBRR attracted was simply because when Buell launched the bike they pretty much said it was going to win everything it entered. If they had launced it with a little less 'pazzazz' and hooplah then maybe it would have passed relatively unnoticed. Most of the bike press actually love an underdog to win against the major factories, but when you say you are going to win you need to follow it up or look a bit silly. Add that to poor pit stops that made the team look unprofessional and poor reliability in the race, and the XBRR debut at Daytona was a bit of a fiasco in PR terms unfortunately  | ||
| 46champ |
Most of the bike press actually love an underdog to win against the major factories. The key words here is MOST of the bike press. Part of the American motorcycle press will take anything foreign over an American product. Proof in point stupid bike planet hasn't said nary a word about the 1190 wait till the first DNF the picture and caption will be above the fold. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Court, if you read this, could you please fill us in on the comment about KTM leaving AMA A.S.B showing the accomplishments of EBR? | ||
| Davegess |
I can't speak for Court but I think KTM leaving just emphasizes how hard it is and is thus a real accomplishment for EBR to have pulled off the year they did. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Dave - thats a pretty legit answer. And if thats how Court felt, well I'd say the same to him. Its not a stupid remark like 'they are leaving cause they were beat by buell' etc | ||
| Blake |
>>> when Buell launched the bike (XBRR) they pretty much said it was going to win everything it entered. That is absolute nonsense! Where/how do you come up with such a fairy tail??? | ||
| Trojan |
That is absolute nonsense! Where/how do you come up with such a fairy tail??? You have obviously blanked out the copious press releases and the press conference held by Buell prior to the ill fated XBRR debut race at Daytona. They made a big deal about it, and that was readily seized upon by large parts of the motorcycle press when they didn't do well. These are just a couple of statements made at the launch of the XBRR which unfortunately proved pretty wide of the mark. the XBRR is poised to change the face of privateer racing with a professional-level, race-ready, production-based platform featuring top-shelf racing technology and typical Buell innovation. The Buell dealer network is quite excited about the prospect of being able to go up against the factories with private dealer teams.” Far better to have a little humility and surprise the big fish than to suffer embarrasment when you don't live up to your own press releases. Wasn't it a US President who said words to the effect of....'speak softly and carry a big stick'? (Message edited by trojan on December 08, 2011) | ||
| Slaughter |
 Fairies don't have tails... though they've been known to tell a tale or two. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
"the XBRR is POISED to change the face of privateer racing with a professional-level, race-ready, production-based platform featuring top-shelf racing technology and typical Buell innovation." Poised= could be successful, could be not so successful. For example; After winning a Championship in 2009, I was poised to have a successful racing season in 2010. For various reasons it didn't happen.... "The Buell dealer network is quite excited about the PROSPECT of being able to go up against the factories with private dealer teams.” Prospect= may or may not pan out. Please explain how being excited about the possibilty of a motorcycle being able to go up against the factories = going to win everything it entered?? Besides... what kind of company would introduce a new product with a "eh, here it is, we hope it does ok, we hope you like it, we hope you buy it" attitude?? IF the XBRR had been successful, the world would be grand and we wouldn't be having this dicussion. However, it didn't quite live up to the racing hype (like lots of other products and people through the years). Did Buell fail with the XBRR?? In your eyes it appears miseribly so... IN my eyes? They failed to be competitive in the series, but some technolgy did make it from the XBRR to the XB series. I'd call that a success. Had H-D allowed them to continue to develope the XBRR, it might have been a very different story... Sometimes I really don't understand why anyone would come to a Buell internet forum, full of Buell enthusiasts and then try to down play or minimize Buell accomplishments or play devil's advocate at every chance... | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Sometimes I really don't understand why anyone would come to a Buell internet forum, full of Buell enthusiasts and then try to down play or minimize Buell accomplishments or play devil's advocate at every chance... WTF, clearly all badweb members are not Buell fans. Seems lately we cant enjoy any small victory or accomplishment without someone spouting some kind of Buell hate, disbelief, or "devils advocate" BS.  | ||
| Court |
The XBRR was hugely successful, owing in large part, to having a 100% DNF rate at Daytona. Compare that to the 1190RS. To keener minds the lesson will be clear. To the less bright it will be entertaining. Win-Win at it's finest. I keep looking for the "we will win it all" Press Release. Apparently HD removed it from the archives. Seems odd. About 100 days until Daytona .... See you there! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
"we will win it all" Press Release I would love to see that.... | ||
| Svh |
Glad Homestead is on the schedule. Much rather go there in September in FL than that POS racetrack that is Daytona. Going to be a great season for AMA I think. 12 rounds is awesome. |
