| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
>>> most of the major podium contenders already out You must be confused. Stoner, Dovisioso, Pedrosa, Spies versus Lorenzo and Simoncelli. Stoner was fortunate to win the race by 0.015 s. | ||
| Jaimec |
Besides the acknowledged power advantage the Hondas have shown all year, there is also the difference in weight between Casey and Ben. On the other hand, someone needs to remind Ben to STOP LOOKING BEHIND YOU!! There probably IS someone catching up, and it doesn't help to keep looking for him. | ||
| Gaesati |
Bautista veered right on the start line across Dovi' s path. This gave Bautista a straight run along dovi's path to the first right corner. Dovi went left and accelerated up to Bautista. This would have put him on a tight inside line for the first corner when he wanted a line to get a wide corner entry ahead of Rossi and Hayden. He followed a slight diagonal to get back to where he would have been if he had not been balked at the start. This left room fo him but not Bautista. That said, Blake is right And it was bautista's responsibility to avoid contact. Bit of a beggar's choice really. | ||
| Trojan |
You must be confused No I don't think I am. Lorenzo & Simoncelli out before the race, and then Bautista, Rossi & Hayden on lap one. All would have been potential contenders for a podium in Spain, but to be honest there were very few 'alien' class riders left to fight for a win. Once the rain started falling you knew Pedrosa would slow down so he was removed from the equation too. That left only 3 potential winners in the entire field...Stoner (who should have cantered to the win to be honest), Dovi and Spies. All the rest are on worse equipment and nowhere near the level of the factory Honda or Yamaha teams. The fact that Crutchlow got 4th and Hayes 7th on his first MotoGP ride shows how far up the order the 'also rans' managed to get this week in the absence of leading riders. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm sorry... but... on what planet (this season) was Bautista, Hayden or Rossi a "potential contender for a podium???" | ||
| Trojan |
I'm sorry... but... on what planet (this season) was Bautista, Hayden or Rossi a "potential contender for a podium???" I would agree for 99% of the season, but Valencia was a different kettle of fish altogether. A. leading riders were absent B. Both Ducatis qulaified well and went well in damp/wet practice sessions so were ideally placed to race well. C. The Suzuki had improved hugely over the season and had ben runnng inside the top 6 for the last few races so was certainly a possibility for a podium in poor weather. D. It was the last race of the year so nobody had anything to lose and could risk more to get a result. Rossi was confident tat he could get a podium at Valencia and he has always been pretty realistic and played downt his chances this year. The fact is that in the changing weather conditions any of the leading riders could have stolen a podium place (Ducati already did it twice this year remember), but taking 3 of them out on lap one made it almost certain that the Honda/Yamaha factory bikes would be unbeatable. Only rain stopped Pedrosa making it a clean sweep of the top 4 with the factory bikes. You have to remember that we are talking about a race where the Japanese test rider finished 6th but was 4 seconds slower during parctice! Anything could have been possible given the conditions but the race got spoiled on lap one  Looking at the test times this morning it seems that nobody can get within 0.8 seconds of Stoner/Pedrosa on the new 1000cc Hondas, so unless the others make some big improvements over winter I can't see any big surprise next season | ||
| Simond |
Don't forget Randy de Puniet looked to be the quickest Ducati all weekend too. I see he's testing the Suzuki this afternoon. Doesn't sound like a team about to leave Motogp to me. | ||
| Trojan |
The situation does seem very strange at Suzuki. Continuing to test and give other riders a chance to try their bike but still no commitment to next season or to a 1000cc MotoGP bike. Poor old Bautista must be livid by now and is looking at having no ride at all if he stays faithful to Suzuki for much longer! After the job he has done for them this year they really should repay him and give him a decision or let him go so he has a slim chance of another ride (LCR maybe?). It seems though that they are more interested in other riders than with John Hopkins now, so maybe he is confirmed at Crescent WSB? There are a few CRT bikes at the test too, and none of them look like getting within 5 seconds of the leaders. Even though those at the test are admittedly 'minor' teams, even by CRT standards, it doesn't look good for the CRT newcomers for next season. | ||
| Jaimec |
All those years Hopper stubbornly stuck with them. I always wondered how he'd do on a COMPETITIVE machine. I guess we've seen a little of his potential in BSB this year... | ||
| Simond |
I thought Hopper and Leon Camier had been confirmed with Crescent in WSB next year. Where does that leave Tommy Hill? I got the impression that Honda would be keen to find a place for Bautista. Perhaps LCR might have a little more factory support next year. | ||
| Trojan |
Perhaps LCR might have a little more factory support next year. Apparently not. The team are still looking for a rider to bring substantial sponsorship money to the team, hence the test ride for Stefan Bradl being given by LCR. However Bradl needs to increase his current sponsors measly 2.5 million Euro investment if he wants the LCR ride as that isn't enough to cover it! No word yet from Honda on what will happen to the factory bike earmarked for Simoncelli next year either. It would seem that Gresini now won't get this bike and will have to pay for 'customer' Hondas for his riders, and we don't yet know if HRC will contract another rider or stick with Stoner/Pedrosa only (which I think is what will happen as they were looking to save money anyway). Paul Bird has confimed he as signed a 3 year contract with Dorna to run a CRT team, using Aprilia engines hopefully. Unfortuately he has signed James Ellison to ride it which I find a bit strange. Nothing against James but he is 31 and has had plenty of chances already to make the big time, including stints in MotoGP and WSB without success. I would have thought there were plenty of more talented youngsters in front of Ellison for the ride, unless they didn't want the 'poison chalice' of a CRT ride of course. | ||
| Gaesati |
Rumour has it that Tamburini is in a consortium designing a CRT bike. Ps.will a hd 1200x engine fit in a buell xb frame? | ||
| Simond |
I agree about James Ellison, though he did put in some impressive performances towards the end of this season and knows the MotoGP tracks. His in-laws might be useful too! It seems that Bautista has just been confirmed at Gresini. I'm not sure why he's done that unless he doubts that Suzuki will be there next year or promises for 2013 on a factory bike. Randy de Puniet could be exciting on the Suzuki next year. | ||
| Trojan |
His in-laws might be useful too! Many a true word spoken in jest! It seems that Bautista has just been confirmed at Gresini. I'm not sure why he's done that unless he doubts that Suzuki will be there next year or promises for 2013 on a factory bike. It would appear that this was 'in the works' for a couple of days at least, as De Puniet has been testing the Suzuki in Bautistas place this week. Suzuki announced it was releasing Bautista about ten minutes before the deal with Gresini was announced! De Puniet could go well in a one man Suzuki team next year if given the opportunity. Suzuki have been given a deadline of this Friday to confirm their participation in the 2012 series (or not). | ||
| Simond |
Thinking about it.... Ellison is probably not such a daft choice for their first year. Experience of the MotoGP circuit and known pace would teach them more than a faster younger rider who would just be learning the tracks and bike while falling off a fair bit too. Nobody can expect to compete for much next year on a CRT bike and the top CRT team will probably be the one with the most consistent finishing record. | ||
| Jaimec |
Bautista to LCR for 2012. Suzuki dragging their heels too damned long. Good for Alvaro, I've always wondered (as I did with Hopkins) how he'd do on a competitive motorcycle. One final note from this past Sunday: Did anyone hear Jorge Lorenzo during the broadcast? He visited the announcement booth during the race (as Ben Spies did the previous round). They asked him how it felt watching someone else riding his M1, and his response was classic: "It's like watching someone else riding my girlfriend." I think the other announcers had a little difficulty breathing for a couple minutes after that comment... | ||
| Aeholton |
Heard that comment from Lorenzo. Got a good chuckle out of it. | ||
| Jaimec |
Suzuki pulls out? http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111114suzu kiout.htm | ||
| Bads1 |
Its a matter of time and the other will do the same. So who will be the last standing one a bet Honda.lol | ||
| Blake |
>>> It's a matter of time and the others will do the same. I'll take that bet! So we lost one bike for 2012, sad to see 'em go, but they'll be back; no big deal. | ||
| Simond |
Ant West for a CRT ride in 2012. Another experienced guy, knows the tracks and can pull off a surprise if it rains.......BUT.... the difference in the speed of the bikes is going to be exaggerated by the difference in rider quality when it comes to fast dry races. | ||
| Svh |
CRT bikes were 5sec a lap slower than the GP bikes at the last test. I think the CRT experiment won't last long at all | ||
| 46champ |
In five years the only bikes in MotoGP will be CRT bikes. | ||
| Simond |
Agreed. | ||
| Trojan |
So we lost one bike for 2012, sad to see 'em go, but they'll be back; no big deal. You'd lose your bet. Dorna have already stated that 2013 will see the introduction of spec ECU and rev limits and the 'active encouragement' of more CRT teams. Their stated aim is to get rid of the factory prototypes and make racing closer and more affordable, but also to wrest power from the manufacturers (aka Honda) who curently dictate the technical regulations. If the factory teams are to survive in any form they will have to make more bikes or engines available/affordable/accessible to other teams and probably base them on existing engine platforms. The prices wanted by factories for 'customer' bikes next year is obscene and completely unsustainable (Honda want something like €4 million per bike per seaason not including spares and tech backup!). I think this will make racing a LOT better than it has been for the last 5 years at least, and should provide a platform for privateer teams to actually run at the front of GP racing again at last. The pruists will huff and puff for a couple of years and tell us that racing is finished, but of course racing will continue and we will get used to the new format quickly enough. The same people said that GP racing was dead when the 500's left, or that F1 would die when they introduced a spec ECU. The fact is that racing will continue and should actually be better than it is now from a spectator standpoint. Unfortunately we will have to endure the 2012 season first of course, which will be a bit of a disaster in terms of spectator entertainment with only 12 'factory' bikes, with a big gap between Honda and the rest, then another huge gap back to the new CRT teams. | ||
| Blake |
I don't see how any of that precludes Suzuki from rejoining MotoGP. How much shall we wager?  The new plans sound okay. All they need now are more equitable weight rules to allow twin and triple cylinder machines to be competitive. Turbocharging could the return to 500cc. Imagine it, a 500cc turbocharged twin cylinder machine that revs to 18,000+ RPM and weighs in at around 300 LB. Getting rid of big factory politics in moto racing? Nice to see MotoGP taking its queue from AMA Pro Racing. Funny how a few years ago some were lamenting the lack of 250cc 2-stroke racing in the AMA. Seems that where the AMA goes, others follow. Actually it was the Canadian SBK series that kicked off the more affordable super bike rules, was it not? Now all but WSBK seem to be following that trend. | ||
| Trojan |
The new plans sound okay. All they need now are more equitable weight rules to allow twin and triple cylinder machines to be competitive. Turbocharging could the return to 500cc. Imagine it, a 500cc turbocharged twin cylinder machine that revs to 18,000+ RPM and weighs in at around 300 LB. And probably cost €4 million a year to lease from a factory, as they would be the only people with the funds and resources to make it happen....bringing us back to where we are now. I can never imagine seeing a return to turbo or supercharging on GP bikes. They went that route before WWII and it got to the equivalent point we are at now, with expensive and exotic factory bikes. Too expensive for privateers and too much gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. The CRT rules basically preclude anythingother than a 4 cylinder motor, as it is really the only way to fit into the new bore/stroke regs I think, and would probably be the only way to make sufficient power. Weight rules for different engine formats are not required. Simply have a minimum weight for combined bike/rider and then allow people to build a bike to fit the rules. The more tech rules you put in place the more complicated (and expensive) things become. A simple bore/stroke and rev limit rule combined with a spec ECU will allow people to experiment within a simple technical framework while leaving chassis engineering completely free I was (and still am) sorry to see the 250 2 strokes die out, and there is still a popular series for them in the UK and in classic racing Internationally. However they were also the victim of factory domination and excessive lease costs, and things move on. 4 strokes were seen as the future for racing and to regain control from Aprilia. You have to remember that the people most behind the 4 stroke concept were Honda of course. I'm sure we will see an advanced 2 stroke engine again in MotoGP at some point though in the years to come. Actually it was the Canadian SBK series that kicked off the more affordable super bike rules, was it not? I think it was the Germans who first proposed 'superstock' tuning for their domestic superbike series. Various other domestic series have now done similar things in order to keep costs down, but have taken different avenues to achieve it. WSB has brought in some measures such as the single bike rule to cut costs but has not gone as far as various domestic oranisers, and it is getting hard to see how they will get wild card or 'one off' riders in WSB with the growing disparity in rules. MotoGP is a slightly different problem in that the series was dying on its feet without serious cost cutting measures being taken, and was effectively run by 3 factories rather tan by the organising body. The new GP rules are designed as much to regain power from the factories as to cut costs and increase competitive racing. | ||
| Jaimec |
I think Canada might've done it more as a "safety concern" than anything else. Have you seen the tracks up there in the Great White North?? I wouldn't want to run a full-honk WSBK superbike on one... | ||
| Bads1 |
Looks like theY STOPPED workin in Texas for the time being. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=46663 | ||
| Blake |
More info at... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95892 |
