| Author | Message | ||
     Lemonchili_x1 |
I bought my 1125R at the shutdown sale, and my thought at the time was that it would be the weekend twisties/occasional trackday bike, and the X1 would be relegated to being the ride to work/allrounder. The 1125R is an amazing bike, it does everything well. I did a trip for work a couple of weeks ago - rode for 4 hours, worked for 10, slept, worked another 8, then rode 4 hours home and I felt like I could do it all over again the next day. However, after 22 months and 15,000km's on the 1125R and 7 years/40,000km's+ on the X1, I still find I can throw the X1 around more easily, I can change line easily, it changes direction *much* faster, I'm more confident pushing it to the limits, and it's more *fun*. The X1 is loose, and a little skittish, and it's GREAT. I'm pretty sure I'm quicker on a really tight road on it, and that's more to do with confidence than either bikes ability or specification. I have battled with the 1125R to find a suspension setup that feels as confidence inspiring as the X1. I get to a certain pace and I just don't feel comfortable leaning it or pushing it further...  I'm now thinking the X1 will become my track day/Sunday fun bike, and the 1125 will be the do everything bike, or maybe even replaced... (Yeah, I know, it's tough having two bikes! I never thought I'd be in as good a situation  ) Anybody else had similar experiences with the 1125? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Mine's gone the opposite direction. My S1W and my S2 are AWESOME (only done a few hundred miles on the M2 since the non-L conversion)...but every time I ride my CR I get faster and smoother. You also have an '09? I run my suspension 1.5 weight ranges lighter per the book, and they feel about right. It was chattery and harsh when I set it anywhere near the book for my actual weight. I'm also not a huge fan of the Pirellis; PR2's or PR3's will go on very soon (I've about shredded the Pirellis). Tip-in is not as intuitive as I'd like, but once I pick a lean angle and a line...boy howdy, she GOES. And I know for a fact that tires can make or break a bike. I bought my S1W in '06, and it had 1,100 miles on it. OEM tires. I put on a set of D208s because the original ones were so dry and hard. Handling, even once I tweaked the suspension and replaced the leaking rear shock with a Penske, was....eh. Finally cooked off the 208s - it has 7800 miles as of yesterday's ride - and put on a set of PR3's about 500 miles ago. Wow. Now instead of being a scary tuber, this thing is on RAILS. I can't imagine what they'll do for the CR! Keep fiddling and practicing. Try going super-light on the suspension. And as horrible as it is to think about...just keep practicing. Call it "homework" | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Thanks for your thoughts Joe. Yes, it is an '09. I have tried all sorts of suspension combinations and it always handles well, but I can't just jump on it and ride it... Maybe it is the tires? I had no issues with the OEM Corsa III's, but I wasn't pushing it or experimenting much. Now with the Bridgestones (BT016's) I'm riding the bike more and trying to get it "just right"... The other thought is maybe it's an ergonomic thing. I have some different clip-ons on order. Keep fiddling and practicing. Try going super-light on the suspension. And as horrible as it is to think about...just keep practicing. Call it "homework" Hehehe, ok, I can give that a try  | ||
| Buellistic |
Have my BLAST suspension tuned and it is RACE READY in the corners ... | ||
| Two_seasons |
I understand what you are saying. 3 Buells in the garage. The 1125 needs to have the suspension set correctly to perform as designed. At the factory settings, the forks are stiff and the rear is really stiff. The rear does become somewhat softer after several thousand miles. But to get it softer, you'll need to back off the preload several clicks. Same with the front. Lots of adjustment available, that's the good part. I've replaced the Pirelli Corsa III with another rear Pirelli Corsa III. I like them, just turned 8,200 miles total on the bike. It may be the 3-compound tire that throws most riders, street riders, off their comfort zone. It becomes more pronounced going from the narrow part of the tire to the 2&3 part, the sidewall, as the miles pile on. From the start, Pirelli's are more designed for sport/racing than sport/touring, IMHO. I've got Dunlop Sportmax Q2's on the two X1 Lightnings I own. Excellent tire. But the suspension on these bikes is not as good when in stock form. I've got almost 2,000 miles on my '99 since I installed the Penske. Excellent feedback and excellent adjustment (should be, they are made in Reading PA  ) Now I've got to re-do the front forks as there is definitely a mismatch. All three make me . All three have their own personalities. All three have their quirks. I'd bet that if we were to hang more in the XB section, you'd see similar discussions regarding the XBxxxx and the tubers. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Very true. You can't miss the generational gaps. 3 tubers, an XB, and an 1125 in the garage here. All vastly different, all equally satisfying (once you learn not to expect identical behavior / performance out of all of them) | ||
| Thejosh |
Got a tuber and an XB, somethings feel more natural doing on the tuber, somethings feel more comfortable on the XB. All I can say is that the tubers natural habitat it the winding roads coming off the mountain. Very cool though, glad to see tubers getting some kudos. Josh | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"once you learn not to expect identical behavior" This could be where I'm going wrong... I guess I've been trying to setup 1125 so it will flick like the X1, rather than trying to set it up so it handles well in it's own way, or something like that. "I'd bet that if we were to hang more in the XB section, you'd see similar discussions regarding the XBxxxx and the tubers." There seems to be a bit of everything, some who went back to XB's or tubers, and some who never looked back once they got an 1125... which means its me not the bike  Lots of adjustment available, that's the good part. ...and enough adjustment to turn it into a complete pig if you're not careful...DAMHIK...  The front end seems to be very sensitive to change while the rear I find it harder to feel the difference when I make a change. "I've got Dunlop Sportmax Q2's on the two X1 Lightnings I own. Excellent tire. But the suspension on these bikes is not as good when in stock form. I've got almost 2,000 miles on my '99 since I installed the Penske." My X1 has a Penske as well, and it was a great investment. I tried heavier springs in the front but found with fresh oil and some preload spacers I prefer the stock fork springs. Q2's are most likely the next tires for my X1. "It becomes more pronounced going from the narrow part of the tire to the 2&3 part, the sidewall, as the miles pile on." Maybe that's what I'm feeling with the 1125R now? The BT016's have maybe 2,500km's on them (say half their life) and when it gets to a certain lean angle it changes the way it feels... I thought this was because I keep making small adjustments to the suspension but it could be when I'm reaching the zone between the different compounds. I'm not sure which tires I'll get for the 1125 next, but I'm curious to try Dunlops on it... SportSmarts are a thought, or RoadSmarts if I decide to not do track days on it anymore... or Q2's if I do... The other option is Michelins which almost everyone seems to like, either Power 2CT's or PR2's... "All I can say is that the tubers natural habitat it the winding roads coming off the mountain." Abso-freakin-lutely , the tighter the better, that's why I bought the X1, and that's still my favourite type of riding So maybe it's me, not the 1125R, and I need to spend some more time seeing if I can get more confident with it. I have an idea for a plan... There is a road near me which is one of my fav's, really tight, lots of elevation changes and a couple of nasty off camber reducing radius turns too. It's probably only 2 or 3 miles long. The X1 is hilarious on that road, while the 1125R is bordering on hard work. If I note all my suspension settings now, then spend a day (or two) on that road working step by step, doing it over and over again, trying to make it fun and fast for that road only, I figure it should work well most other places. Maybe reset it back to the manual settings first? If I can get it to work on that road then I can decide whether I want to take it back to the track or not. } | ||
| Two_seasons |
I've got to change out the fork oil and check the hardware for damage. I'm 210, so my weight adds 50% more pounds to my X1 starting out. If you have the time on that particular road, I'd reset to factory settings and adjust from there. I'd also get about 4 notches down from the rear factory preload to start out. Out here, we have plenty of harsh roads on which to test. Funny thing is the cops, almost without exception, pull you over and ask what you are doing when they see you going back and forth. Good luck with your dial in. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Another thing. Yesterday morning I got up early and did not want to disturb the neighbors (Vance & Hines which probably needs new packing) so I pushed the '99 X1 down the road before I started it. Have you ever heard the original floating front rotor spinning around with your engine off. Sounds like it's ready to self destruct. Never heard that much noise coming out of a rotor/caliper before. You guys with the original rotor ought to try this. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Your ride/adjust/repeat idea is a perfect approach. Remember: ONLY MAKE ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. Don't throw two or three changes at it at once, or you won't know what made that run work or not work. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I just want to point this out because I find people saying it often, but adjusting the spring preload will not do anything to change the stiffness of the spring, unless you're able to crank it up so high that your own body weight added to the seat won't compress it any. Spring preload does one thing, and that's to adjust the amount of spring sag, which essentially correlates to the loaded ride height. Adding or removing preload will change the amount of sag, but the spring will always be compressed the same amount once you're sitting on it which of course means the ride quality won't change. "Stiffness" can only be changed with a change in springs or adjustments to the damping. However, removing preload in the rear as has been suggested will sit the back end down some which will in turn slow down the front end, taking out any "twitchiness" if you feel your bike has it. Chili - if you feel like the X1 is quicker to change direction, I might suggest trying adding preload to the rear on the 1125 and/or taking some out of the front. The fork on your X1 doesn't have any preload adjustment and unless you're 160lbs (I have no idea how many stones or kilos or grams that is in metric land) it's undersprung which can give a "sloppy" feel like you've described, but will also create a steeper fork angle that will speed up those transitions. Not trying to be argumentative, but try adjusting things in both directions and see where it gets you. Personally, I find the handling on my CR a little stiff for the winter-wrecked roads around here, but absolutely sublime on the racetrack. The S3 is great in the twisties as well but surely has that 'loose' feeling you described. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
If you have the time on that particular road, I'd reset to factory settings and adjust from there. I think that's what I'll do. I've been doing everything one change at a time, but it's been scattered, one change then another on a morning ride, maybe a change before I ride to work and another before I ride home. With the 1125 I've never spent a day just doing suspension and I think that's what I need to do, and take a notebook! Xl - I'm 165/170 pounds, so I'm on the lighter side. My normal approach is to reduce the front preload to reduce the front ride height and speed things up, and on the X1 I'm running spacers in the forks for the right preload and dropped the triple clamps a little. On the 1125 it has a different effect to what I expected - I tried different extremes of front and rear preload and lowering the front seems to lighten the steering a small amount, but the bike becomes more reluctant to change direction and "pushes" the front more in an understeer kind of way. I run the bike higher now and the steering is more neutral, but I'm starting to get lost in the changes I've made... Having said all that I got the 1125R to run beautifully through one of my favourite 180° motorway exits on my way home last night at a good quick pace... Maybe it's mind over matter? | ||
| Two_seasons |
I used to be your weight when I was doing triathlons Use a day to dial it in. Set back to the factory setup prior. Take a notebook and make reference to what you have it set at when you first go out, date it, then note the changes and date that too. You'll get it. If you are doing any track time, make note of those settings and date them so you can get back to that point when you get to wring your bike out again . | ||
| Xl1200r |
I agree with Two - set it back to factory and spend a day on it. Also, it may very well be mind over matter. Have you done a track day on the 1125 yet? A few laps on good tarmac in a controlled setting will you that things to the limit and probably feel more at ease when you get there next time. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Also, it may very well be mind over matter. I'm sure I over-analyze these things rather than just riding. My brother-in-law likes to tell me that it's what's in-between my ears that slows me down You'll get it. If you are doing any track time, make note of those settings and date them so you can get back to that point when you get to wring your bike out again . Have you done a track day on the 1125 yet? A few laps on good tarmac in a controlled setting will you that things to the limit and probably feel more at ease when you get there next time. I took it to the track for the first time a couple of months ago and that was where the frustrations started... but hindsight has 20-20 vision and I've worked out a few things... ie I've over-analyzed it some more Before the track day I was running the OEM Corsa III's. I had only done some minor changes to the suspension from the factory settings, the bike didn't steer or flick as fast as I'd like, and it was a little harsh/bouncy, but overall I didn't really feel the need to change the suspension. With the Corsa III's at 7/10 pace the bike was great. At 8/10 pace the bike seemed to say "Dude, we can go quicker if you want, just let me know when you're ready ". It was good to ride, but not as much "fun" to ride in the twisties as the X1. As the tires wore out (and the rear squared off a little) the steering got slower and heavier than when it was new, but that would be normal I would think. Change #1 - I changed to the BT016's and only put a few hundred km's on it before the track day. I expected the Bridgestones to make the steering a lot lighter and faster but there wasn't that much difference. They did feel a little more V-shaped though. The track day was my first in ten years so I took it easy and built up my pace through the day. I dropped pressures to 30 front, 28 rear. During the first session I found the track very bumpy in two sections. Change #2 - I increased rebound front and rear to handle the bumps a bit better and I think this was a mistake, I should have reduced compression instead. I made no more changes that day, but in hindsight I think I've been running too much rebound since then. During the day I seemed to hit a barrier at a certain cornering pace and I had this nagging feeling the X1 would be more fun. This is where my frustration with the 1125R really started. During the track day and when I push about 8/10's on the street the bike with the Bridgestones seems to say... "Duuuuuuude, are you sure you want to push any harder than this? I mean are you really sure?"... The BT016's are a good tire, but maybe they're not quite right for me. I'm going to ride the bike to work daily for now and use them up and replace them with another sports tire. Pilot Power 2CT's sound like the safe bet, or Pirelli's. I'm really curious about the Dunlop Q2's and SportSmarts but I'm guessing they're both a v-shaped fast drop in profile and might not inspire confidence with my riding style. (Ratbuell - I had the D208's on my old GSXR and hated them. They turned incredibly quickly but they ruined my confidence) Soooo, I'm going to conquer this bike. Here's my challenge to myself: Get some new tires and take the time (and the notes) to make the 1125R fun and enjoyable here:  If I can make it enjoyable to ride on that little bit of road, I figure it will be easier to ride it quickly in most places and should be more fun on the track. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Sounds like you're on the right track LC. Those Dunlops SportMax Q2 are only on my X1's. But...I would try them out on my 1125r because they feel that good on the X1's. I've thought about racing my '99 at Black Hawk Farms. It would be interesting to see if I felt the same way about the Dunlops after doing that. I can tell you that I take tight corners with confidence on them. Of course I know the roads around here and it's open road with no forest on either side, only fields and a couple of farms. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Woohoo! Had a little breakthrough yesterday and had to share... I figured I may as well start the notebook now so I wrote down all my settings yesterday and found I was running the front rebound at only one turn out... Probably too much? The rear was at 3 turns out. I backed it off the front to two turns out for the ride home last night, and it was a little "looser" which is good. Half way home I adjusted the rear rebound to 4 turns out, it's softest setting, and I'm sure I've never run the rear that soft before. I took a bit of a detour after that through a big roundabout and a couple of good motorway loops/on-ramps, and then the fav motorway exit, and it is "looser" and *much* more confidence inspiring when cranked over, the understeer kind of feeling is gone, and the "barrier" seems to have gone In a way it feels more like the tires are doing the work rather than the suspension, or at least they're working together not against each other. It still needs work to get it right but it's shown me what I've done wrong with the setup and that I should be able to get it right Thank you guys for your help! | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
PS I kinda want to get it back to a trackday now |
