| Author | Message | ||
     Nose2wind |
I tried searching for this fix. No luck! Does this apply to all year models? So the idea is to stop any oil and vapors flowing from the crankcase back into the intake? And this helps the engine to idle smoother? I have an 09xt | ||
| Tootal |
The theory is that the oil vapors don't burn near as well as gasoline and since the XB's run so lean anyway, the fumes cause an even leaner mixture since they are taking up room for more air/fuel. The leaner a bike runs the more this modification will help you run smoother. It helped mine but did not completely cure my surging. ECMSPY helped a lot more. It does keep the air cleaner dry if you overfill your oil though. That in itself makes it worth doing. | ||
| Ourdee |
It helped my 08XT. | ||
| Growl |
I richened up my fuel maps with ecm spy before rerouting the breather hose(s)... to fully benefit from the remapping, the breather mod is a must. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
+1 ... it's unconscionable that the factory would do this to our engines - it must have been done to get by some EPA requirement of some sort, otherwise why do it? | ||
| Motorbike |
I hate to rain on anyone's parade here but I just removed all the breather mod hoses etc. and put my 08 XT back to stock this afternoon. I really could not tell much, if any, difference when I installed it this spring. The bike always ran pretty good except for an occasional cough/backfire during acceleration when not completely warmed up. The Erik Buell Racing ECM seemed to eliminate that problem entirely. The one thing that I really did not like was the fact that I could always smell hot oil fumes while riding around town etc. Reminded me of years past when I did a lot of snowmobiling. I will ride it the rest of this season without the breather mod and see how it goes. So far, I have only ridden around our small town without the breather mod for about 1/2 hour and I could not smell any oil fumes at all. Thanks! | ||
| Uly_man |
I did this on my 06 Uly at about 3k and noted a smoother idle right off. I did it on my 2010 bike at 3k with the same result. It is done to meet the GREEN thing as with fitting a CAT in the EU. | ||
| Blake |
Jonny sarcasm strikes again.  | ||
| Portero72 |
I'm with Motorbike on this one. I did, and kept, the reroute, but honestly didn't notice any difference with how the bike runs. I AM keeping it because I like the idea of all the oily fumes NOT going back into the motor. | ||
| Bikelit |
The breather mod helps around idle on low mile bikes, but does little after they are broken in. Like motorbike, I'm also not a fan of the stench that comes with the mod, or the crap that dumps out the breather. Although the ECM and sensors set your air/fuel ratio as needed anyway, leaving it stock makes your fuel mixture richer, not leaner. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
""oily fumes NOT going back into the motor"" That's is the only reason to do the mod. But it's not 'oily fumes', it's oil mixed with water. Some folks notice it helps the cough/low idle, some don't.... but that's not the point. Do you really want this crap being ingested by your engine all the time it's running. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhdD7Kh6WE | ||
| Reepicheep |
I rerouted on my 2000 M2 and wished I hadn't (just because of the mess and smell). The 9sx and Uly stayed stock. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
That's amazing - there are actually people right here in this very thread who, given the choice, have made a conscious decision to have their engines ingest all of that crap, all of the time, day-in, day-out while they ride. They reviewed all the information, applied logic, reason, and common sense, and then decided that having their engine ingest this stuff was for them. There was a thought process involved here. Wow, "Jonny sarcasm' is speechless. Finger-typing-less. ... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yes Johnboy, I did think about it. What, specifically, is your concern about moisture being ingested in your engine? Where do you think that moisture from the crank case came from? Do you ride your bike when the humidity is above 5%? Or should bikes only be ridden in Arizona in the summer? What happens if your bike is out for a ride and it starts raing? Do you call for a tow? Maybe you could pack your airbox with these...   | ||
| Bikelit |
- Nose2wind - Mine is connected, and it runs fine. All my family cars and trucks have it connected, and they run fine. Forget worries about moisture. It’s in the air and you’re not stopping it. In the life of your bike, the motor will consume many thousands of times more “water” than you’re getting from some little drain. Oil vapors are not good for combustion, so motors will run better by-passed. It also means less oily crap through your intake which tends to keep them in tune longer. With the throttle shaft issues XBs have had, I wonder how many were on by-passed motors. Could any of them have failed from a lack of lubrication? Bottom line, this mod has both good and bad points, but is not do or die by any means. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Mine is stock and I haven't done or needed a TPS reset for 24,000 miles on my 06 with 34,000 miles. I only did the TPS at 10,000 because it was 10,000 miles. My bike starts and idles real nice. I think engines most likely run with more power when it's raining out. Probably steam cleans the combustion chamber also. I thought about by passing but after doing some internet research came to the conclusion that it works just fine as is. Two stroke motors rely on oil mixed in gas for lubrication and they do just dandy. Nothing wrong with a minute amount of lube in the intake and probably good for it. And as someone else mentioned, when you vent this stuff to atmosphere, you've taken the intakes vacuum out of the equation and that doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Might as well close loop that splooge and burn it. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation _system | ||
| Motorbike |
I have not yet taken the time to read all of Electraglider_1997's last post on PCV systems but, as far as I know, there is not one passenger vehicle made today that does not use a setup very similar to that on our Uly's to deal with crankcase vapors. PCV systems have been around for a long time. Running the spooge back into the combustion chambers is nothing new and does not create a problem for most engines. Thanks. | ||
| Andymnelson |
It may be the case that all (well...most) vehicles use such a system, but there is no arguing my experience: my Uly runs noticeably smoother at low to mid RPMs with the crap not running into my intake. Not have fumes/smell is simply a matter of common sense: I run my breathers into a catch can, and I run the vent from the catch can up into my airbox for the smell to be re-burned. No issues whatsoever. Not a chance in the hot place that I would ever consider running it stock again. | ||
| Motorbike |
Andymnelson, I set mine up very similar to yours when I did the re-route. In fact, if I recall correctly, I got the idea to run the vent up into the airbox from you. I put the little filter right at the front left side, out side of the air filter. I swear, I could smell fumes, mostly when riding slower on hot days. It was not noticeable at highway speeds.   Maybe my bike creates a negative pressure area because of the windshield setup I use? Maybe that was drawing the fumes back out to where I could smell them? I'm really not sure why. I will report back after a few hundred miles and see if I notice any fumes with the stock setup. Oh by the way, I did not use an actual catch can, I used a piece of clear vinyl tubing instead, with the idea that I would get a real catch can if I thought I was going to make the by-pass permanent. Thanks! | ||
| Blake |
I have to agree with Reepicheep there Johnboy. Over 100 miles, do you really think that bit of water and oil is anything to worry about? I sure don't, but I had water injection installed in my turbocharged hot rod back in my younger days.  | ||
| Froggy |
I've been tempted to switch it back to stock as I don't want the crap getting vented into the ozone. I do dump my catch can into the recycling tank at oil change places, but still having the fumes vent rubs me the wrong way. I do like how it improved low RPM drivablity, so I do have mixed feelings on switching it back. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Motorbike- try eliminating the filter and running the hose up into one of the factory breather holes....so it vents into the inside of the air filter. If you are getting fumes from there (not saying you don't, but I can't imagine it!), this simple change ought to solve it.
To me, it's not about worrying. It's about better drivability.
Froggy, look at Motorbike's (and my) setup....best of both worlds! | ||
| Nose2wind |
Snipped from electroglider link: According to this the least amount of vapors being recycled occurs at idle. Yet you guys claim that is the most notable improvement. On my other bike a Guzzi the crankcase vent is routed to the hollow frame which is then allowed back into the oil sump (i think) This would be like running the vent back into the swing arm on our bikes... At idle, the intake manifold vacuum is near maximum. It is at this time the least amount of blow by is actually occurring, so the PCV valve provides the largest amount of (but not complete) restriction. As engine load increases, vacuum on the valve decreases proportionally and blow by increases proportionally. With a lower level of vacuum, the spring returns the cone to the "open" position to allow more air flow. At full throttle, vacuum is much reduced, down to between 1.5 and 3" Hg. At this point the PCV valve is nearly useless, and most combustion gases escape via the "breather tube" where they are then drawn in to the engine's intake manifold anyway. | ||
| Nobuell |
I agree with Andymnelson. Actually, I am in the process of performing the modification as well. I will be routing both vents individually down to the catch can that is currently being fabricated in my shop. I will route a third breather back up to one of the original holes in the filter base. There are internal baffles to help catch condensibles. This design precludes the need for a mini filter, the vent gas should contain minimal condensibles and the vent is not exposed to rain. Should minimize odors as well. I designed a horizontal catch can mounted to the tube below the left side air scoop. It is out of the way and easy to access for draining. I planed to add a sight glass to monitor fluid level if there is enough room. The only problem is the mount bracket. I had not finished the design of the mount bracket and now that my bike is stuck out of town due to a charging issue, I am dead in the water until I get it back. (Message edited by Nobuell on August 29, 2011) | ||
| Ratbuell |
}Could any of them have failed from a lack of lubrication? THANK YOU!!! I prefer not to run my 23,000 mile '06 throttle plate dry. It's perfectly happy (and gunk-free) as it is. I run the vent from the catch can up into my airbox for the smell to be re-burned. um. well. just a question here...what do you THINK you're re-burning as you re-burn the 'smell'? It's the same thing as the stock breather setup, you just added a link (catch can). Sure, the can may catch some condensing oil at the low point since it has a longer path now, and has somewhere (think plumbing P-trap) to collect as it cools on its longer trip through all that plumbing...but all in all, YOU'RE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING THE STOCK SETUP DOES. But if it helps you feel better...more power to you. My bikes, along with my cars (turbocharged and non-turbocharged)...all have stock PCV systems in place, with the exception of my S1W which had a remote breather installed when I got it and I just haven't bothered drilling a hole in the back of the race aircleaner backing plate yet, to route it to the intake. And just a hint? Ride longer. You burn the condensation off in the first fifteen minutes of riding, same as you do when you're trying to eliminate the primary case "milkshake". Once you do that, you're burning oil vapor. What do they make gasoline from again? I used to know that....hmmmm..... | ||
| Johndb |
I asked the Erik Buell Racing Tech about the breather reroute when I ordered my Race ECM... Q: In your professional opinion, is the breather reroute mod a good idea, or is it beneficial? Their reply was Quote:"It does not help that we can measure, and if not done right can definitely hurt. We do not recommend it." ...so I did not do it. | ||
| Blake |
If there is any impact to performance, it is not likely from a meager passing of oil or water but rather a lot of blow-by, meaning poor ring seal allowing combustion gasses to blow by the rings and into the crankcase, where they then are ejected by the breather. That's my understanding anyway. | ||
| Andymnelson |
Negative. That's a ridiculous statement seeing as tho I empty 3-4 ounces of moisture from my catch can every 150-200 miles. Nobody said you have to do it. I certainly hav not claimed any performance gains. But there quite simply is no arguing with my experience: Drivability has improved for me. Period. Off idle performance has improved by way of less of the notorious off-idle stumble. Mid RPM performance is considerably smoother. Knock it all you want. Don't do it, I don't care. But you can't argue what I have experienced! | ||
| Eulysses |
I water-injected my race diesel. Euly |
