| Author | Message | ||
     Zoolander |
I'm about to pick up my CR from the shop...AGAIN. They diagnosed my charging issue as another bad regulator and that's it. This will be my 2nd VR this year replaced. The original problem was that the voltage gradually decreased as I was riding. Starting at around upper 12's and down to low 11's and lower at times. Interestingly, the SYSTEM VOLTAGE message never came on like I read in soooooo many posts. I've had the harness upgrade and no other mods. QUESTION: Is it possible to have only the voltage regulator go bad twice now and nothing is wrong with the stator or anything else? (It's hard to have faith in H-D corporate and think that they still care. The dealers I'm sure are sick of seeing '09 Buells but they just get the same parts that keep failing. I'm not sure if they really know anything about Buells) | ||
| Rob_l |
When both R/R failed on mine the voltage went over 17 and blew the low beams. Had system voltage message and IP went blank. Sounds like yours has a bad stator. Ask them if they checked what the volts are coming out of the stator legs. | ||
| Zoolander |
Every post that implicates the regulator seems to be that the volts go up. Mine has never done that...voltage always steadily goes down. In fact, as I was riding home just now, it's happening still. Fired the bike up, it read 13.7. Couple miles down the road cruising at 40mph mostly, it dropped down to 13.3ish. Stopped at a light for no more than 30 sec, it dropped under 13. It fluctuated between 12.5 and 13.0 while on the Interstate for about 7 miles. Got off the Interstate and it dropped below 12.5. Pulled into the driveway, I let it sit running in neutral for about 2 minutes just to see what would happen. CT got up to 205 degrees, volts went down .1 every 10 sec or so. It actually went up .1 at one point only to drop to 11.9. I shut it off after that assuming it will only continue to drop. Called the dealer, we'll see what great ideas they have...I've asked them about the stator but they have maintained it is not the stator. Is it still possible it's JUST a VR problem? | ||
| Spiffious |
Mine is doing about the same thing. 5k miles on stock stator and harness upgrade. It would start in the 12-13v range, then steadily decline. At one point I did get system voltage error. Later it continued to drop until as low as 11.2. I tested all three legs of the stator and am getting full output of 30-40v AC at 3k rpm. Who knows, the bike is at the shop now. | ||
| Froggy |
The VR works like a dam, it regulates flow. If your VR fails it can either cause over voltage or under voltage conditions, but usually its over voltage based on what I've seen. | ||
| Jules |
It's a simple 5 minute check to see if the stator is working as it should. Pop the seat off and check, you don't have to trust the dealer to diagnose something that simple.. | ||
| Zoolander |
What is "simple" for you is not so "simple" for me. I read the instructions posted online from a fellow BadWeb-er, it's like reading Portugese to me. I don't know what I'm doing. I'll ask them to explain it to me when I bring it in again to see if it sounds the same as the online instructions. I'm not confident that they really know what to check for either. I'd bring it to another dealer but I know for a fact that they have been communicating back and forth about the same charging issues. | ||
| Kinder |
Zoolander: if you want I can talk you through it on the phone. It really is that easy.  You will need a digital volt meter that reads AC, a #30 torq screw driver to take the seat off and a phone. Send me a message and we can set up a time to do it. | ||
| Jules |
Sorry Zoolander, I didn't mean to imply anything when I said it was "simple". I'm reasonably handy with a set of spanners and a qualified electronics engineer so i guess I should have quantified "simple". In principal it's just removal of the front seat, unplugging a single connector (the gray one with 3 yellow wires going into it) and then using a multimeter to test AC voltage (not DC) across the 3 connectors with the engine runnig. Like Kinder says, it'd be pretty easy to walk you through it over the 'phone - if you have a multimeter. If you don't then they are a pretty good investment - mine has saved me a lot of grief over the years. | ||
| Zoolander |
Thanks guys, I will PM you once I buy a voltmeter. | ||
| Cptncreme |
I would say it is most definately the stator. The symptoms are exactly what normally happens when the stator fails. The so called "techs" at my dealership suck. I go in there every te telling them every time I drop it off what the problem is because I am a auto technician and they never listen. They just try everything else b4 fixing the problem. I HATE going to the dealer, I don't know how their Svc dept is even still open after all my crappy run ins with them and all my other friends Harley issues. It is nice to know it's not just buell being treated poorly too. At least t my dealer anyways..... Sorry had to vent | ||
| Pwillikers |
Zoolander, pick up a cheap multimeter at Harbor Freight. They are less than $10. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Watch for Harbor Freight coupons, sometimes multimeters are FREE! | ||
| Pwillikers |
Captain, My dealer's service dept. is unbelievably inept with one notable exception. There is one tech. who has experience, insight, intelligence and is honest. He's the only tech. I'll let touch my bike even if I have to wait an extra week. When it's out of warranty, I'll never go back (probably HD's grand plan anyway). Sorry, just had to rant back. | ||
| Zoolander |
you guys read my mind, Harbor Freight! As for dealer service from H-D, it's hard not to be cynical when talking about them. This whole issue has me thinking they will string me along - keep replacing the faulty parts with faulty parts and not fix the actually problem - until I'm out of warranty. Captain and Pwillikers, I hear you. | ||
| Zoolander |
Checked the stator with Kinder's help. It is working for now so I still don't know what the problem is. If it's just the VR, why does that keep failing...and so quickly? Just talked to the dealer again. They don't know what's going on either...fairly obvious. I've been civilized and the acting service manager (in-house issues at this HD dealer) has been attentive and appears to be making a genuine effort...still no results but I guess it is true about catching more flies with honey...bringing it back in this week. Any ideas? | ||
| Dannybuell |
B4 you take it in, test without harness. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/647864.html?1314069671 | ||
| Nuts4mc |
a)chk the battery connections are they tight?... (+)terminal not shorting to frame??? it's a tight/close fit. b)with a simple Ohm meter chk the resistance/continuity from the (-) terminal to the ENGINE BLOCK...with the meter set to it's lowest "multiplier" it should be zero...if it's not... check the ground connection (follow the big diameter wire down by the swing arm pivot - is the nut tight?)... electricity likes to flow like the blood stream...it needs a continuous uninterrupted flow any breaks or restrictions - and well you know what happens... learn to read/use a simple Volt Ohm meter it can make trouble shooting a lot easier especially when you can describe the "symptoms" in greater detail to the mechanic. good luck | ||
| Zoolander |
Dannybuell - when I got the bike back, I noticed that the dealer disconnected the harness. Of course, they didn't mention anything about that but apparently the same things happen w/ or w/o it. Nuts - I checked the connections, the resistance, and the ground connection and that all seems to be okay. I talked to the dealer again and they have ordered a relay that they hope will solve the problem. I have no idea what relay they are talking about but I'll get specifics when I bring in the bike tomorrow. | ||
| Jules |
They're probably talking about the relay that controls the switching on and off of the leg of the stator. generally when that fails one leg of the stator is always off - which would certainly give symptoms as you've described. It'd be worth getting them do double-check the installation of the harness, especially the control pin connection to the ECM as that control pin switches the relay... | ||
| Jules |
Actually, if the same thing happens with the harness disconnected it's unlikely to be the harness relay - as when disconnected that's not actually doing anything to the stator... Have you verified they left it disconnected and had a chance to ride the bike a bit like that? | ||
| Zoolander |
Yes, I rode back from the dealer with it unplugged but I didn't know that until I got home and took off the seat to check things out. Hopefully, it is this relay that can help. | ||
| Kinder |
Based on the pic Zoolander sent me the harness is there but they had the stator hooked directly to the VR and not going through the harness. | ||
| Jules |
I suspect they left it like that as they think the relay is faulty... i guess my concern is that if there's still an issue with the harness off then the relay can't really be the cause.... But I guess, replacing it is a simple enough job so might as well let them try that... | ||
| Kinder |
Well when I pulled the harness my volts rose. I wonder if the ECM switch/ and solenoid pass through mixed with the relay activation act as a power drain. Especially if he relay if faulty. | ||
| Zoolander |
Well I dropped it off again today and spoke with the tech who will be guessing how to fix it. You are correct Jules in that he disconnected the harness because he thought the relay was the problem. Since the same problem exists without the harness upgrade, he was initially stumped...that's when I left so I didn't have to see him suffer. ...stay tuned. | ||
| Zoolander |
The dealer said they found the problem ; a faulty pin that connects to the ECM. They replaced it and it seemed to be working just fine to them. He said it was probably from some guy at the factory during initial assembly that was in too much of a hurry on a Friday. I'm picking it up tonight so I'll see if it works. Anybody have a problem like this? | ||
| Zoolander |
So I pick my bike up again. It fires up with voltage at 14.3, by the time I get out of the lot it is 13.9, by the time I get to the first light (150yds away) it is 12.5. I stop to get gas at the same light and turn it off with it reading 12.4. Turn it back on and it reads 12.7 but riding another 1000yds, it continues the downward trend to 12.2. By that time I have arrived back at the dealer. Less than a half mile of riding and the voltage dropped from 14.3 to 12.2. Granted, the SYSTEM VOLTAGE message never came on, but...The dealer says this is normal for Buells. They said it can get down to 11.5 and it would be considered normal...?!? Is it? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Disconnect the Harness and overfill a bit with 3.4 quarts of oil. | ||
| Sparky |
Zoo, what you're seeing is pretty much normal with the harness. Mine does the same and I've been running it that way since the beginning of this year when a new stator, VR and harness was installed. I have not had a problem with insufficient charge, been stranded nor had any electrical or battery problems in that time but then I don't run with high beams on or usually power other accessories. But I did install a LED type voltage monitor like what American Sport Bike sells so that I don't have to worry about the voltage numbers so much. As long as I get a green light with a little throttle, I'm not worrying. Overnight voltage readings at the battery appear the same as what I see with my two cars and my S1, approx 12.8 VDC. Don't worry about it and ride the bike. If you disconnect the harness, you're likely going to toast the stator at some point down the line. |
