| Author | Message | ||
     Reindog |
There is a petition to repeal SB60 which is the bill granting illegal aliens the right to be issued California Drivers licenses. Time is running short and 100,000 signatures are still needed by Dec. 7, 2003. I urge you to request a petition from http://www.saveourlicense.com/SaveOurLicense.html } but you must act today. "Please turn in all petitions by Thanksgiving Day.... The last day to request petitions is November 21st, so if you need more petitions, please make sure to request them." "Senator John Burton calls effort to repeal SB60 "racist." It is looking like the Governator is not gonna repeal it so ,we the people, have to once again do what the politicians are unable to do. I've already filled more than one petition. It is easy to do. Most of your friends are behind this movement and will sign so you gotta act now. | ||
| Ferris |
Forger, why is the voting on this deal so strongly divided along party lines? | ||
| Hootowl |
Because the dems get most of the hispanic vote. | ||
| Sarodude |
I don't pretend to understand all issues to their full extents. This is certainly one of those issues. Should an illegal alien have a driver's license? I dunno, but is it gonna keep 'em from driving? My experience says No, but that doesn't mean Jack . Why don't we at least air reasons both for and against this? I'd ask that it be done in as fair and impartial manner as possible. Take the other side. Why should they have or not have licenses? -Saro | ||
| Reindog |
Hey Ferris, I assume you are referring to the September vote that voted for SB60. It was purely along Party lines. Voting FOR SB60: STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBERS 44 Democrats, 0 Republicans Assembly floor vote (9/2/03) STATE SENATORS 23 Democrats, 0 Republicans Senate floor vote (9/3/03) Voting AGAINST SB60: STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBERS 1 Democrat, 30 Republicans Assembly floor vote (9/2/03) STATE SENATORS 0 Democrats, 15 Republicans Senate floor vote (9/3/03) Absent, Abstaining or Not Voting STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBERS 3 Democrats, 2 Republicans Assembly floor vote (9/2/03) STATE SENATORS 2 Democrats, 0 Republicans Senate floor vote (9/3/03) The only rational conclusion is that the Democratic legislator was pandering for the Hispanic vote because the Governorship Recall election was slipping into high gear. Now, the Democrats are playing the race card on this issue in order to prevent it from being repealed. It is pure nonsense that this is a race issue. I don't care what continent or planet an illegal alien hails from: they should NOT have a Cali drivers license. Period. It is a breeder document for terrorism if any illegal Joe Schmo can just waltz into DMV. | ||
| Reindog |
In addition to debate, please go to the website and request several copies of the petition TODAY. Tomorrow (Friday 11/21) will be too late. It is super easy. | ||
| Reindog |
Another reason for denying Cali Driver Licenses to illegals is that it contradicts earlier legislation that allows drivers license applicants to also register to vote on the same form. Voter fraud will be much harder to verify and control. Big government just doesn't posses the resolve to prevent this brand of voter fraud. Again, guess which Party illegal voters are likely to vote for? | ||
| Reindog |
The question of whether Cali licenses should be issued to illegals is kinda like asking me if I should put on pants in the morning when I get up. The answer is just obvious to me and doesn't seem even worthy of debate. However, there are a lot of people who disagree with my viewpoint. I guess they don't put on pants when they get up. So a'debating we will go.... | ||
| Reindog |
Illegals are gonna drive with or without valid licenses. That is just a fact of life in Cali. The overwhelming majority of illegals wouldn't purchase automobile insurance even if they could. They are illegals and don't make much dough. There is no upside in granting Cali drivers licenses to illegals. This is purely a political power play which spits in the face of people who immigrated to the US legally and to the US citizenry. | ||
| Blublak |
As a person that deals with security matters (when I'm not riding, which is too much of the time for my likes).. State issued DL's are a primary means of Identifying friend and foe (in some cases).. If an illegal can get one, even though they have no ties to the nation/state that opens the door for MANY possible problems, that I'm not going to try and list them.. I will however be giving this information a harder look .. thanks for the heads up! Later, | ||
| Ferris |
Forger, aside from what seems like the obvious (easy votes for Democrats), what rationale has been given for us to support something that seems so apparently wrong at first inspection? | ||
| Ferris |
Hey Ferris, I assume you are referring to the September vote that voted for SB60. It was purely along Party lines... btw, yes, that is what i was referring to. | ||
| Jim_witt |
Should an illegal alien have a driver's license? Instead ...... why in the hell should an illegal even be in the United States in the first place. They're every freaking where nowadays. Transporting illegal aliens into the states is more profitable than selling drugs. You rarely turn on the television in Arizona without seeing some sort of illegal alien trafficking and shooting deal’eo going on. It’s totally out of control and Arizona has traditionally been a conservative ran state, by Republicans. The dumbshits that hire out the illegal aliens are the “real problem”! Go by any Home Depot in Arizona and it looks like a Hispanic labor hiring hall. TONS of restaurants/chuck wagons/fast-food services hire illegal aliens, hotel/motel maids and in house servicemen, butt-loads of cleaning services employ them and its common practice in all forums of constructions, including installing block fences, pool companies and WallyMart. How many law services exist that hire illegal aliens.You aren’t going to change shit until people quit hiring them. -JW:  | ||
| Reindog |
The pro SB60 people argue that illegal aliens should be given the right to have a Cali drivers license because: 1) Illegals contribute to the Cali economy, therfore should share in the benefits of that society. 2) It is better for them to legally drive on Cali roads than illegally. They have to pass a driving test, therefore they are safer drivers. 3) Illegals need automobiles to drive to where they work. 4) It is discriminatory to deny rights to "undocumented workers". These are all reasons given by leading Democrats in the State, especially Cruz Bustamonte. | ||
| Ferris |
1) Illegals contribute to the Cali economy, therfore should share in the benefits of that society. it could be argued that drug dealers contribute to the economy as well (pot has to be the #1 cash crop up here in the Sierras). hmmmm, maybe we should provide some sort of federally funded protection for them, as well. 2) It is better for them to legally drive on Cali roads than illegally. They have to pass a driving test, therefore they are safer drivers. anybody who thinks that passing the DMV driving test proves ANYTHING has got shit for brains. you take a look at the drivers on the roads here in Cali and it's readily apparent that ANY mouth breather, alien or not, can get a license. (hmmmm, can bilingual traffic signs be far off???) 3) Illegals need automobiles to drive to where they work. no they don't -- that's why God made public transit (and thumbs) (and feet). 4) It is discriminatory to deny rights to "undocumented workers". well, i'm a DOCUMENTED worker (and LEGAL, i might add), and i think MY rights take priority. seriously, are THESE their only arguments? really? say it ain't so.  is there anyone reading this thread who can counter with some legitimate reasons FOR passing SB60? | ||
| Reindog |
Ferris: SB60 has already been enacted into law. It was signed by Governor Davis. Your last sentence might be interpreted as a debate for why SB60 should be passed. It is passed but we are trying to make it past tense. I hope you request several petition forms tonite. I bet there are a lot of hombres in your neighborhood that would love to sign the repeal SB60 petition. edited by reindog on November 21, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
It's all a ruse. They get their driver's license, then when we know where they are, they get snatched in the middle of the night and taken to power the world's largest pedal powered electric generator. muwahahaha | ||
| Bigblock |
Yea, what Blake said. Too bad I just heard about this now, I could have got a bunch of signatures for this. Hell, man I know Mexican- Americans that'd sign that one! | ||
| Dynarider |
Jim, the illegal workers deal isnt just in the southwest or in The Republik of Kalifornia either. Here in the midwest they are everywhere. Now I will say that these folks are some of the hardest working people I know & a lot of them are doing jobs that no sane person would ever do. Around my area & even in my company they employ a lot of illegals thru temp agencys. They pay em $7-8 an hr with no benefits & the temp agency is the one who takes the heat if they get busted. One night we sat around asked em how they came here & it was hilarious. They actually told us stories of jumping fences & crossing the desert, one guy swam across in an old truck tire inner tube, etc. Not saying its right that these companies are employing these illegals, but I really dont know if some of these companies would still exist around here if they had to employ strictly US citizens. I dont know anyone who wants some of these horrid jobs. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Half or our clientele are illegal aliens!!!! ...and half of them claim to speak no english!! We are half way to the Canadian border for Christ's sake!!! In this bunch there is NO contribution to the local economy... Want a hint... check my profile... | ||
| Nevco1 |
If employers are required to complete Fed & State forms with two sources of ID, historically social security card and drivers license, as a condition of legal employment and failure to do so leads to heavy penalties for the employer, why is there a problem? I would think that illegals would be driving on US roads just like anyone here on a tourist visa, that is with authority of the drivers license they have from their home country. Furthermore, by definition, illegals are in this country illegally and have no rights. In essence, they are criminals and do no qualify for employment, licensing or social welfare programs which are rights of being a US Citizen or a Legal Alien. Oh, man is that a joke in California and a significant reason why the State has such a large financial deficit. In conclusion, there is no reason to license them unless we just want them to report in so the Immigration Service and round them up and send them back home. | ||
| Reindog |
It is likely that the Cali legislature is going to vote to repeal SB60 but this is full of political wrangling. The Governator has promised to consider a revamped version of the bill next year. In other words, it can come back next year. The Dems are only doing this because they are afraid of the Repeal SB60 petition drive. If that referendum passes, then politically, there will never be a law granting Illegals drivers licenses. Please remember to send in your petitions in order to keep the heat up. Thanks to everyone who has collected signatures to repeal SB60. | ||
| Kaese |
In conclusion, there is no reason to license them unless we just want them to report in so the Immigration Service and round them up and send them back home. " What better way to help Immigration Service with their job!. Why not, have the illegals contribute to the economy. 1. Maybe buy auto insurance 2. Fees for the licenses 3. Purchase vehicles and pay taxes to get it registered | ||
| Nevco1 |
Kaese...Nice try, but vehicles, sales tax, license fees and insurance don't amount to a hill of beans in the CA economy. Especially among folks that don't pay taxes cause they are illegal and paid under the table dirt cheap wages. I propose the INS use the licensing as a sting operation like they do with the other perps in So Cal. Cuff'n'Jail 'em when they show to collect their prize winnings. Only in this case, send them home rather than to jail. The "Coyotes" will love you for it as will the used car salesmen, auto insurance agents (note the actual companies are out of State) and CA might even appreciate it a little with the fees and taxes on the autos. LMAO Trust me, in 30 years of living in So Cal, we hired and housed a lot of illegals. Made big bucks on them too. Even knew one guy that conned them out of their wages and then turned them in to the INS when their work ethic dropped off accordingly. Oh yeah...forgot he is Hispanic as was his cousin (Branch Bank Manager and head of the local Chamber of Commerce) that housed a few hundred on an ongoing basis. Yep, now that NAFTA went into effect as well as AQMD and CARB, the Mexicans are better off in Mexico where the jobs moved. Additionally, the wages and cost of living qre both lower and more proportionate there. Not to mention they can afford to live closer to the ocean than they can in So Cal. LOL The Chinese may as well sweat it out in the slave labor communes provided by their domestic and foreign employers too. Again, better wages per cost of living. Both the Asian and Mexican illegals are well known for packing up to 20 folks in a two bedroom apartment or condo and pay well over $2,000 per month rent (1986 figures) for the privilege of living like sardines in a can in a shit neighborhood. Why the high rent? SlumLord simply replaces drywall with the carpet when and if they ever move. Ever wonder why you can't find a parking space on the streets in these areas. Yep, the garage was turned into a make shift bedroom and rented out by some "Patron." Then again there is always the illegal aliens from Europe, Canada, and a few other places. Good folks too, but illegal just the same. Know quite a few from Holland. Fun folks but finally got situated in Vancouver, BC with another set of fake papers. LOL Get an immigration visa and come to America with the goal of becoming an American. That is, blend in with the giant melting pot. Leave the shit at home, bring a great attitude and enjoy your new found opportunities and freedoms. Add to the American dream, don't come to suck of the system and whine about how good it was back home. Hey, I am second generation American. One Grandmother was the only family member to survive the ocean crossing from Sweden. The other Grandfather and his brother (a Catholic Priest) were the only ones in the family to get out of Germany alive. Both sides of the family were so glad to be here that they forbid anything but english be spoken in their homes and adopted all the American holidays, customs and cultural issues. They dropped the one's from back home for one simple reason. If it were that good back home, they would not have left. The most interesting thing about all this is folks are running from their respective countries to come here and live like criminals because it is a lesser risk than staying in their respective countries. Hey, the Colonists had balls enough to conduct a revolution, why don't they. Then they can have their cake and eat it too. Far be it from our Government not to help out. Hell, they will most likely get more from Uncle Sugar to support a revolution than the Democrats could ever give them in this country in the form of aid to illegals. Think about it!!! | ||
| Kaese |
I liked what you had to say. I live in Northern California, so the border problems are a distant reality. Sure, we have illegals up here too. I have never thought about exploiting them, like maybe they should be. I also agree that while other countries do not support the US politically, why do all their citizens want to live here? Welfare? Education? It is probably just our standard of living. The US has the $$ and they want a part of it. I believe that most get here on a tourist visa and just never leave. They realize that you can work under the table and survive in a much better lifestyle than they had before and worth the risk of deportation. If you had that opportunity, wouldn’t you take advantage of it? I know I would. From what I have observed, Immigration hardly enforces the deportation law anyway. It seems that if one is not causing a problem, leave them alone. I understand that in some countries, even if your work ethic is good, one still does not have the ability to advance to the next higher social class. In most cases it is the almighty buck that rules. In most other 3rd world countries there is not even a middle class. One is either very rich or very poor. Some countries require you deposit a substantial sum in the bank to ensure you return. Some have figured out the game to advance their lives. I commend those individuals that have managed to arrive here. Aren’t these the brighter ones that the US should allow to immigrate? Wasn’t that the basic reason the Colonies broke away from England, $$? I am far from a bleeding heart liberal. I am curious as to other ways we can exploit the illegals, they are here illegally, how can we as US citizens take advantage of that fact? Charge them more money just to visit? Some groups think illegals should have rights. The US laws on the books do not seem to have an effect on curbing illegals. How do other countries deal with this problem? | ||
| Nevco1 |
Try getting into Australia or New Zealand and getting a job. You can get a tourist visa but will have to work under the table just like illegals do here. Had a number of friends that were Ski and Surf Bums that followed the seasons and that was their dilemma. Incidentally, I believe their US and Canadian Drivers Licenses worked just fine for them. edited by Nevco1 on November 27, 2003 | ||
| Brucelee |
Illegal aliens are criminals. All of the "arguments" for giving them licenses simply duck the issue and try to justify this action on some lame logic (well they are "nice" people who do crummy jobs, they will drive anyway etc.. If having more folks to do crummy jobs is an issue, then the work visa/permit process needs to be dealt with. Otherwise, if they are illegal, we should attract them to DMV under the ruse of giving them licenses, arrest them and deport them. Seems pretty straightforward IF we actually believe in the rule of law. If we don't well then, what standard will be apply? It is like being pregnant, there is no such thing as being "a little illegal." | ||
| Brucelee |
Update State Moves Toward Repeal of License Law Senate Democrats, in a reversal, join in vote to deny illegal immigrants in California the right to drive. The Assembly is expected to follow suit. Times Headlines Medicare Victory Caps Senate Leader's Rookie Year Bush's Brother Has Contract to Help Chinese Chip Maker Savings Accounts Key to Drug Law Turkey and Yams -- All of It Weightless Officials Faulted in Ill. Fire Deaths more > THE STATE By Gregg Jones, Times Staff Writer SACRAMENTO — In a victory for Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Senate Democrats joined with their Republican counterparts Monday to repeal a controversial law that would allow illegal immigrants to obtain California driver's licenses. The Senate voted, 33 to 0, to repeal the law after only four minutes of debate. Six Latino Democrats chose not to vote. An Assembly committee is expected to take up the matter today. The lower house, which is generally more conservative than the Senate, is expected to vote as a whole within the next few days. After years of struggle to win passage of the driver's license legislation, the swift reversal by Senate Democrats — virtually all of whom voted for the bill only two months ago — stunned and angered some of the law's supporters. | ||
| Jon |
Can't they just ride burros? | ||
| Nevco1 |
No...because they couldn't get to their illegal jobs on time. Not to mention they are not all from south of the border.  | ||
| Dynarider |
Texicans  |
