| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
That's a pretty inaccurate statement.. Really? What about "lots of dead batteries" leading to "up the output" as a solution is inaccurate? Or is it the "higher output = more heat" that's not accurate? Enlighten me. Especially since I was on the sales floor for 08 and 09, and back in the shop with my customers on many occasions during that timeframe... | ||
| Avc8130 |
This is not Erik Buell Racing's or Rotax problem. Erik Buell Racing has no responsibility to repair the issue. If they see a business venture into fixing the stator issue, that is our best hope. However, there are probably legal issues with this depending on exactly how it is orchestrated. Rotax isn't responsible for this issue either. They are a motor supplier. They take components made by other suppliers and build them into motors to sell to manufactures. The manufacturers are responsible for specifying certain parameters and testing for compliance/longevity. Rotax cannot be 100% responsible for something like a stator, as a good portion of its interface is out of their control. How could they know the SYSTEM (stator/RR/loads/etc) would work when they only supply a small portion to a specification given to them? This problem is Buell Motor Co's. That means HD. HD isn't going to solve this problem. They have at the very most 6-9 months of the original 2 year warranty left on at the very most ~5k bikes. I am sure the math just doesn't add up for them to engineer a solution. Strap yourself in. If you think the ride is bumpy now...just wait...we haven't gotten to the forest yet. ac | ||
| Jules |
Rat The inaccurate part is this: Mountain - what happened was a bunch of aircooled, low RPM V-twin riders bought 1125s and revved them like they were...well...air cooled pushrod motors. I guess it depends on your interpretation of "a bunch" (not a quantifiable amount) but it implies that the issue is as a consequence of owners of the 08 model not riding the bike as anticipated by Buell/HD. Even were that to be accurate (and I doubt that it is) then the resultant shotgun fix still isn't justifyable (I agree with you on that). As it happens, the early 08 had the parasytic draw issue and the stator output was only really "adequate" if you didn't load it up with loads of accessories as some owners did. There was one particular owner who was very vocal about the perceived shortcomings of the 08 setup and that seemed to have an inappropriate amount of influence over the decision. In hindsight it seems that the wrong problem was fixed with the 09 stator "upgrade" but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Your also right about the ratio between output and heat.. I just happen to disagree with your observation about the "bunch" - although to be fair if you meant "bunch" to be "minority" then I probably agree with that too.. There were bound to be some who migrated from other Buell (or other v-twin) platforms that might have lugged about on the 08s but I'd still suggest they were the minority. Perhaps I should have said "I respectfully disagree" rather than "that's inaccurate" I apologise if it caused any offence. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Testosterone - the chemical that turns ears into tongues. | ||
| Rt_performance |
The apprilla has the same ducati regulator aswell wich makes me think rotax sent them or reccomed those for use with the stator. If I manage to get my burned stator back I am going to ask custom rewind to put a gauge bigger wire on it Seems no matter what the magnetism if we reduce the output to just enough the heat will be reduced. Someone on the apprilla forum had there's tested on a rotor stator machine. I would like to know who has one. | ||
| Freight_dog |
As has been implied, the 1190 uses the same base engine, so obviously, Erik Buell Racing HAS solved the stator problem. They just need to share... | ||
| Jules |
They just need to share.. I thought they had.... wasn't it extra oil flow? | ||
| Stimbrell |
It amazes me that some people actually seem to think the bad experience of owners of 09 up BUELL 1125s will not have an effect on the perceived quality of future Erik Buell Racing bikes, whether it is Buell Mo co or Erik Buell Racing, the customer hears one word, BUELL, from a customer service point of view you have to live with it and accept it, to 99% of potential customers it is the same. Why do you think crap companies spend so much money creating a new name and identity? happens all the time. (Message edited by stimbrell on July 31, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Freight_dog - Makes you wonder huh? Jules >>wasn't it extra oil flow? , speculation and conjecture as far as my Buell OCD serves. Stimbrell - It seems that there are two viewpoints here and in past threads. The legal responsibilities of HD,e-b-r,rotax people and the reputation people. Reputation's are hard won on and off the track. In this case the engineering reputation has to be a primary focus for any investment. The reissue of anything having a bad reputation, highly unlikely. e-b-r's mass market potential is zero unless past issues are resolved or they start using a different powerplant. The CR has been parked for the last two weeks. I just came in from a nice 80 mile country romp on my s1. Orchards, berries, wheat, vegetable farms lots of nice sights and smells. The straight aways are longer with the s1 but the curves are about the same. :-) The s1 has 95K miles, I can ride from 2400rpm to 6500rpm all day long and no worries. (Message edited by dannybuell on July 31, 2011) | ||
| Buellmojo |
What stator was used in the 1190? How do we know the issue has been fixed? | ||
| Spiffious |
I don't see any reason that Erik Buell Racing wouldn't benefit from selling an 1125 "upgraded" stator. Solves our issue, improves Erik Buell Racing perceived quality, provides thousands of instant customers to profit from. | ||
| Kinder |
Hs anyone asked Erik Buell Racing if the 1190RS shares the stator/ rectifier with an '08 or '09 or if it's a different beast altogether? | ||
| Jdugger |
> Erik Buell Racing HAS solved the stator problem. When the stator issues first started to become commonplace, one member here actually got a personal message from Erik himself on the topic. There were a number of details, but one of the more noticeable ones was Erik's comments regarding having not experienced the issue in the race shop to date. So, I ask... are you sure they solved the issue? Because, it seems to me the comment was much more along the lines of them not having the problem at all. Food for thought. | ||
| Kinder |
In a race environment it may not be a factor. Fresh batteries, high rpm/ speed, less wiring to interfere with air travel, possibly larger oil cooler etc etc. I'm more curious with h 1190RS as they are aware of the issue so am curious if they addressed it with the new bike. I still think BPR should be stepping in here. Yes they built an engine based on BMC specs but they also tested it and were to make it work for the dimensions requested. | ||
| Avc8130 |
I still think BPR should be stepping in here. Yes they built an engine based on BMC specs but they also tested it and were to make it work for the dimensions requested. Rotax only had to run the motor or any other systems they supplied through testing as required by Buell. Obviously whatever Rotax did was sufficient for Buell to sign off on the supply contract. Face it: Buell is dead. HD isn't going to fix your stator. Erik Buell Racing isn't interested in fixing your stator. If you want your stator fixed, you gotta figure it out yourself. ac | ||
| Jdugger |
> If you want your stator fixed, you gotta figure it out yourself. Or, just keep the revs up  | ||
| Avc8130 |
Judgger, How confident are you? I'll trade you my 09 stator/rotor for your 08...since you can "keep the revs" up, that shouldn't be any risk for you :-) ac | ||
| Jdugger |
Pretty confident. My 08 chassis has an 09 motor, and I have another 09 w/ 7k on it. | ||
| Freight_dog |
When the stator issues first started to become commonplace, one member here actually got a personal message from Erik himself on the topic. There were a number of details, but one of the more noticeable ones was Erik's comments regarding having not experienced the issue in the race shop to date. So, I ask... are you sure they solved the issue? Because, it seems to me the comment was much more along the lines of them not having the problem at all. I imagine he wouldn't experience the problems in the race shop, because he was building race bikes not street bikes. He was building and selling race harnesses with all the 1125RR's or whatever he sold, that didn't have electrical loads like street bikes. Those bikes don't have to idle at stoplights and in 35 mph zones all day like street bikes. I mean, you know as well as I do that racers are happy to run total loss systems. The stator issues first became common long before the release of a street legal 1190. If Erik is half as smart as the cheerleaders believe he is, and I'm sure he is, he would want to damn well know his non HD polluted baby doesn't suffer reliability issues like this. Jules, yes I was referring to the "more oil" solution. What exactly does it mean? How do we do this? It was also said at the time to be able to be fitted to existing bikes. Well? Lets have it! | ||
| Dannybuell |
>>I imagine he wouldn't experience the problems in the race shop, because he was building race bikes not street bikes. << Comments like that are a sign of a bad business judgment. He knows what the issues are, denial is for crooks and politicians. Having lost Aprilia and Buell in recent years the Rotax cred has to be shrinking. Both Rotax engines have stator problems. | ||
| Jdugger |
> I mean, you know as well as I do that racers are happy to run total loss systems. Keep in mind there's been a lot of endurance racing done on the 1125r platform where total loss is completely impractical. And, both of my bikes are configured stock as far as electrical purposes. On the A bike I run a Lithium battery, but the B bike actually still has the OEM HD Lead Acid battery! My B bike is bone stock. On occasion, I hang lights on it and take it to Arkansas. It's got 7k miles, and no electrical issues. There are a number of us approaching 10k with 09 motors and no issues. The bike just does not like sitting at stop lights and low RPMs. If you do that, you will be more prone to electrical problems. That's really the consistent behavior we have seen here. High revs equals more oil and less (relative) load on the stator. You can help your system out by constantly keeping the battery on a tender. But, I never have, and I still don't have issues. The stator issue really is the worst problem these bikes seem to exhibit, but at least for track day guys and back road blasters, there's the opportunity to avoid the issues with modest riding style changes. As a commuter, the 1125r is kinda a crappy choice. In my opinion, the electrical issues aren't the worst thing about the bike for in-town, actually. | ||
| Dannybuell |
>>The bike just does not like sitting at stop lights and low RPMs. If you do that, you will be more prone to electrical problems.<< Then a Street bike will have problems. Not fit for service. | ||
| Jdugger |
If that's how you ride... yes. It works fine for a lot of people, though. I'm not saying it's right. But, there is a way to reduce the odds of the bike's problematic nature. We could have the same debate, in a way, about the Honda ST1300 and any sport bike. It's 800lbs, but gets through a tight parking lot or a police practice cone course a million times better than *any* sportbike. Sucks balls on the track, though. Pick the right tool for the job. | ||
| Jules |
Pick the right tool for the job. Funny, I thought I had. I bought a bike marketed as a street bike and use it on the street.. Shame it doesn't actually appear to work there for a lot of us. | ||
| Dannybuell |
The honda ST1100 & ST1300 have external automotive style alternators. The 1125 is a street bike first, having been sold as such is exposed to issues regarding it's merchantability, 'goods are reasonably fit for the general purpose'. >>Pick the right tool for the job.<< Exactly! A street bike for street riding... In the late 60's when I took up motorcycles battery tenders were for nancys too cheap to buy another stator. Same thing today. The Buell community endorses battery tenders because there is NO real stator other than the 08 setup. When I got my CR I decided to put on as many miles as I could to sort it out under warranty. During this time the s1 was parked and ignored for over a year. No nancy battery tender, no fancy battery, no battery disconnect storage strategy just BANG started right up. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Exactly! A street bike for street riding... Well, I ride the street and don't have issues. I'm not defending BMC or HD; there's clearly an issue with the bike. But, HD isn't going to fix it. They don't care about you, and they want you to go away. Until then, there are things you can do to make the situation better for yourselves outside of suffer from the lack of support from HD. And, instead of just whining about it, I'm hoping the message gets out that you CAN do some things about this problem to help to reduce the symptoms. It's NOT a good bike for parade duty. You know that. Don't use it that way, or suffer the consequences if you do. I'm on your side, here. I'm not sure if that's coming through. | ||
| Jules |
I'm on your side, here. I'm not sure if that's coming through. I don't think that is coming through. I know you're not defending anyone but TBH the constant "if you rode the bike differently you wouldn't have the issue" message that seems to keep going around on here is wearing thin. I realise that's not something you have said in quite those terms but you've skirted the borders of that and others have leapt right in there. I ride my bike "like I stole it". I use as much of the motor's potential as I can reasonably get away with in the road...ignoring any legal ramifications I bought a "sports bike" because I like to ride "sportily". I have to go into traffic sometimes, even if it's just to get in and out of the village I live in. But once outside town I'm happy to pretty much redline it in most of the available gears and tend to cruise at speeds frowned on by LEOs. Imagine my surprise when my stator failed, having thought I was "minimising" the chances of failure by following that mantra of "keep the revs up" 9 times out of 10. It is entirely possible that keeping the revs up might have extended the life of my stator, but in my opinion it was just a matter of time until the inevitable happened. You have your opinion, you've stated it more than once. My opinion is that that's total bollocks. But then again that really is just my opinion so we'll have to agree to disagree. | ||
| Dannybuell |
it's coming through. If I am looking at the voltage then I am not enjoying the ride. I miss riding the bike and wish the fix would come in sooner. It's NOT a good bike for parade duty. I know that now. In the parade bike world water bikes are considered to be better parade bikes than air cooled. | ||
| Budgolf |
Get the freaking thing rewound. Or do it yourself. It's not hard and a simple google search returns plenty of links showing you how to do it. Here, let me help. http://www.fireblades.org/forums/articles-honda-fi reblade/76464-tutorial-how-rewind-smoked-charging- stator.html Fix the freaking thing. But above all, stop whining and take some ownership. I mean, if you bought a brand new motorcycle, and by new I mean new platform, newly designed engine everything, and didn't expect some issues, especially after all the issues in 08, then you're a moron. I have an 08. An early 08 and do/have done my fair share of troubleshooting on badweb, but I knew it was risky going in. Some of you act like the 09 1125r is the only bike in the history of motorcycling to eat stators. Most brands have a model or two that goes thru them. Stop acting like Erik Buell ought to be fixing your bike for free in his garage on the weekends, and please, if you cant do these things, sell it and buy a GSXR. | ||
| Jules |
Who is whining? Actually, TBH forget I asked, you're clearly not someone whose opinion I'd care about. |
