| Author | Message | ||
     1125rpilot |
Ok, I am abandoning my previous post since it doesn't allow me to click into it. The issue to arise from my first Dyno run is the detection of of a Very leaned mixture. I noticed some rough idling and inconsistent revving with cracks and pops, also a hotter than usual running engine, all when I put in a Erik Buell Racing ECM. So I decided to get the facts from a Dyno test. I cannot seem to get the Dyno chart's "file size" small enough to post. I would like for all to see. On the Chart, besides the 118Max Hp. and 70 Torque, you will see an air/fuel ratio peaking out as much as 17:1 when the mix is supposed to be 13.5:1 I have a stock Air filter and custom made pipe that has an equivalent of 1.25" straight through flow through silencer for each cylinder. The pipe is merged with X-pipe and is 90 degree slashed cut underneath at rear tire. Is this a faulty ECM issue that should be taken up with Erik Buell Racing? Or if you have any other thoughts to this matter I would appreciate to read them. Thanks all! | ||
| Zac4mac |
Just sounds to me like a bad match, pipe to ECM. You'll probably need to go the $750 programmable ECM route and tune it yourself. Z | ||
| Syonyk |
Woah... 17:1? If you're flowing stupid amounts of exhaust, which it sounds like you are, you'll just need to tune it properly. The main issue with the 1125s (and, honestly, almost all motorcycles out there) is that the ECU doesn't actually see the airflow into the engine. It sees things that, with some work and assumptions, it can convert into flow mass. You're screwing it up by affecting flow and volumetric efficiency. Many cars use airflow meters and can self-correct for many modifications. If you put an intake and exhaust on, flow is up 10%, the airflow meter sees this, and it adds fuel. With motorcycles (and many other cars), the only data the ECU has is RPM, manifold pressure, throttle position, and O2 sensor data. The problem here is that turning this data into airflow requires knowledge of the engine and flow characteristics. If you change things like the exhaust, you get more airflow, but the ECU has *no way* to know this (in general - it can correct somewhat using the O2 sensor, but this isn't able to deal with large changes). So, it's fueling like it knows, but there's a ton more air, so you're lean as... well, 17:1. Tune it properly & I bet it'll absolutely rip.  | ||
| Imonabuss |
You need a custom tune for a custom exhaust. No way is a pre-programmed race ECM done for another pipe going to work. Get a programmable ECM and write a map, or get an existing performance exhaust for which there is a pre-programmed ECM. The ECM isn't running lean, your setup is lean because you have the wrong map for your pipe. | ||
| Buellitup |
Pictures! | ||
| 1125rpilot |
Ok, I finally am able to upload pictures of the Dyno run graphs. Would it make any sense to just place on a power commander to dump more fuel in? - If so, then would it be best to go back to a stock ecm rather than the ebr one? would it make any difference?  | ||
| Court |
You appear to have what we call in the technical world . . . a "mish mash". If you buy an ECM programmed for "pipe A" and match it with "Pipe B" . . . .getting it to EVER run right appears to be pretty much a combination of blind luck and chance. Did you, when you ordered the ECM, specify the set up? | ||
| Froggy |
I think your best bet is to upgrade your ECM to the programmable version, the one you have isn't set up for your custom pipe. | ||
| Syonyk |
Damn, that's lean... | ||
| Dannybuell |
You could also send the pipe and ECM to Easyrider, he will do a special tune. | ||
| Avalaugh |
What year bike do you have ?? I have a '08' and fitted a HMF with stock ECM, ran into problems with the AF's bringing EM light on. So ordered a race ECM (this was before pipe specific ones were available) and bike ran better but I didn't see what all the hype was about, I had no more EM light and it ran better but it gradually got worse. So by now I had changed my exhaust to a APH and decided to send my ECM back for a different map (went with drummer as the specs were the closest between the APH and drummer) Still didn't seem much better. So I thought I'd upgrade to the later type directional injectors from the '09' and that cured it, had the power everyone talked about, made 138.9 bhp at the wheel. Maybe your injectors are at fault, This would explain the lean mixture, the race ECM never flashed the cel light but when I put the stock ECM back in when the race ecm was away for the reflash it showed up ? Put your stock ECM in and go ride for a day. | ||
| 1125rpilot |
"Maybe your injectors are at fault, This would explain the lean mixture" - Avalaugh I was wondering this as well. Would it make sense to tweak up the fuel pump regulator for more pressure? If not then why not a power commander to dump more fuel in when needed? Does Erik Buell let you trade in Race Ecm previously bought for a programmable one? Thank you everyone for your comments | ||
| D_adams |
Post pics and dimensions of the pipe. OD of the tubing, wall thickness, length, etc. | ||
| Avalaugh |
When E.BR are back up and running correctly buy some later spec injectors, think they were $100 or so, worthwhile investment IMO | ||
| 1125rpilot |
I'm thinking about just buying one of those 1190's. lol, ok back to reality. I will keep an eye on those injectors and My pipe is away on a polishing trip, I'd like to post up specs when I get it back. | ||
| D_adams |
I guess the other question I should have asked was, who actually made the pipe? | ||
| 1125rpilot |
The Pipe is a home built. Erik Buell Racing did not provide pipe specific ECMs when I purchased mine so it was more of a general race ECM that I thought would fit any aftermarket pipe and adjust the Air/fuel mix appropriately. Unfortunately the ECM can not adjust the amount needed. | ||
| Kds1 |
before you go doing a bunch of spending money and worrying, where did the airfuel reading take place, via sniffer up the pipe or at the port via 02 sensor? if you used a sniffer in the pipe, it needs to be way in front of the x pipe and as far up the pipe as possible...alot of times you'll be reading the fresh air on reversion in the muffler if you don't get far enough up the exhaust tract... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Are you sure you don't have a leak in your pipe somewhere? | ||
| 1125rpilot |
Thanks KDS1 for your input. I did check on the sensor positioning and it would have been at an accurate spot. The A/F reading does seem clear due to the severe lack of power and its rambunctious attitude. Would it be at all possible, do you think, to tweak the fuel pressure reg. to supply the necessary fuel? Thanks again, | ||
| Zac4mac |
This is not like changing jets in a carb, this IS high-tech. You can do serious damage if fuel and timing is not right. Either put the OEM pipe back on, get a common pipe and a fitting ECM or get the programmable ECM and Dyno or datalog to tune. My 2¢ Z | ||
| Firemanjim |
So what was the AFR with the stock ECM,if it is as lean your problem is the pipe or some fuel feed related issue, if stock ECM is not lean send the Erik Buell Racing back for check. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Erik Buell Racing did not provide pipe specific ECMs when I purchased mine Inaccurate. Every race ECM they've sold has been configured for a specific exhaust system. To start they offered a tune for their own race exhaust, then added the FMF or other and expanded from there. You need the programmable ECM, or a new exhaust and the ECM that is mapped specifically for it. | ||
| Dannybuell |
>>"Erik Buell Racing did not provide pipe specific ECM's when I purchased mine" I interpreted this as accurate based on the fact that the old Erik Buell Racing website sold two preprogrammed ECM's race gas and regular. How or where these ECM's evolved from is interesting but does not negate the accuracy, correctness or validity of the statement. | ||
| Kds1 |
I think I would go the route of changing the af ratio via tuning if you can't change the design of the pipe... if you wanted to talk about it you can always call me.... Kevin www.kdfab.com 828-381-7546 | ||
| Blake |
Danny, Those ECM's were specifically programed for the Erik Buell Racing racing exhaust, so they were indeed pipe specific. If someone asked about using the ECM with a different exhaust, they were told that it wouldn't be a good idea and that results could not be assured. Erik Buell Racing did mention at the time that the FMF or maybe it was another pipe--I don't recall for sure--was very similar and would work well with the ECM. Other than that, no assurances. | ||
| Rhard |
Do you think it might be the HMF since that is the only other pipe they sell besides their's? | ||
| Blake |
That's it! |
