| Author | Message | ||
     Guambra2001 |
Hi guys, I was wondering if any of you guys have personal experience in reliability factor when it comes to a liquid vs. air cooled motor. It seems like the air cooled motor can go on for ever and many XB owners have well over 20K on their bikes. With our infamous "stator" issue affecting 09 1125 it got me thinking of the reliability of the bike. Also maintenance wise, is there any difference in liquid vs air? Or are they pretty much the same? Thanks in advance, David P.S. Totally unrelated note, did you guys check out the July's issue of Sport Rider? Page 73 has a full ad for AMSOIL showing a picture of Geoff May/1125RR and none other than Mr. Erik himself... pretty cool. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
the issues the helicon engines are having have nothing to do with it being water cooled. they are teething issues brought on by the challenges of a new power plant on short order and changes made to stator in order to make the bikes more user friendly ie more available electrical power. | ||
| Jdugger |
... that and I had over 40k on my first 1125r motor, including over 10k track miles. They are very durable. | ||
| Guambra2001 |
I was more interested in finding out the reliability of the engines. I.E. XB engines will last for quite a bit from what I've read in some forums. The question is can I expect my 1125 engine to last well over 20k compared with the air cooled xb engines? | ||
| Guambra2001 |
Jdugger, Thanks that's all i needed to know, from all the threads i've read it seemed like a lot of people were having issues really early on. | ||
| Jdugger |
The 1125r motor is just as durable as the XB motor, and in my opinion, vastly more so. I *BLEW UP* an XB motor riding it hard on the track. Those old pushrod, unbalanced lumps will give out at a much higher rate stressed to the max than the 1125r motor will. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Guam- it was an incomplete thought on my part sorry. yes there are many many people that have well over 20k hard miles on the 1125. i'm at 16k and climbing on my 08, got it in jan 09 was gone all but 3 weeks of 09. didn't ride much in 2010. ride the shit out of that thing the mechanicals are good. stators and clutch slave cylinders are what usually give issue | ||
| Froggy |
There are more motor issues on the XB than the 1125 for sure. The XB is a reworked variant of a 50 year old design, and has 50 year old limitations. The 1125 is new from the ground up and doesn't have oiling problems, crank problems, valve float, and a number of other issues the XB has. 20k miles? If any motor couldn't get 100k miles, yet alone 20k miles, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Both the XB and 1125 will do it. I don't know any 1125's over 80k yet, but some are up there, there are many XB's in that mileage range, but they had a couple year head start.
Less overall maintenance on the 1125. No primary chain adjustment, no primary fluid changes, no clutch adjustments, no TPS resets, and longer intervals to services. 6200 miles for oil changes, 12400 miles for oil filters+oil, plugs, then the big one is check/adjust valves. 18600 is oil and fork oil. The 12k service is the big one, while the XB 10k service was the big one for them requiring oil, oil filter, primary fluid, adjust primary, adjust clutch, tps reset, fork oil, and a dozen other things. I just had two 1125s get the 12k service done, and combined they cost less than my XB 10k service. | ||
| Froggy |
Also regarding clutches and stators, the XB has its fair share of issues with them too, depending on the year. Adjust the clutch wrong, you will break the primary cover, not cheap to fix. Older XB models will melt connectors causing the charging system to go nuts and overload, and using the wrong fluid in the primary can cause the stator to burn out. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
not saying more or less one way or the other just pointing out what i've had trouble with on my 1125r which is my first buell 2nd bike. so my comments are more observation from here than they are direct experience in comparing the two engines | ||
| Jdugger |
> clutch slave cylinders are what usually give issue In all fairness, I consider hydraulic clutch slaves and clutches themselves, in general, wear parts. Replacing seals every season or two is par for the course, really. If you ride a lot/hard, they wear out. Ask almost any Ducati racer about their clutch slave... | ||
| Guambra2001 |
Froggy, Thank you, I'm coming up on the 6000 mi service and so far no problems. Hopefully when I get back there won't be any serious problems from having the bike sit for so long. But time will tell, thank you all. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
J- agreed they are however the issues i've had with mine weren't or at least should not have been due to wear. 4 times in the first 10k all street miles. | ||
| D_adams |
Mine's only at 24k (1125R) so far, but the motor is running just fine. Getting a little bit of noise out of the front end now, could be steering stem bearings or fork internals, just haven't looked into it much just yet. I guess the major wear part is tires. Switched to BT-016's and am getting reasonable mileage now with 7500 average on the rear (into the 3rd one now) and between 9-10k on the front. Having your own tire machine is soooo worth it. Last major repair on mine was June last year, one fin broke on the impeller for my water pump and it started leaking, I guess the mechanical seal started to fail. Replaced under warranty. Last clutch slave was prior to that, so this one has probably 10k miles on it now, maybe 14k. I don't remember the mileage of the last clutch problem but I think it was in 09 late in the year. The motor itself is good though, don't hesitate to get one if you're thinking about buying. There was someone on the west coast that had over 60k miles last year I think. | ||
| Sprintst |
on another board we have a CBR600 with over 200,000 miles on it | ||
| Dannybuell |
Froggy "If any motor couldn't get 100k miles, yet alone 20k miles, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. Both the XB and 1125 will do it" My 96S1 has 94K miles and is on its 3rd top end. The bottom end is original. One of the primary motivations for the water cooled 1125 was to avoid top end rebuild cycles. Water cooled engines live longer. The Buell S1 owners manual says if you get stuck in traffic on a hot day to pull over and stop the bike or serious engine damage will occur. I haven't seen any pull off and shut her down statements like that in the CR owners manual. I change the oil in my motorcycles every 1,000 miles. I generally wait about 2 minutes before I get on and gently ride until operating temperature is reached. In the S1 if I get stuck in a summer traffic jam I will drop the oil when I get home. | ||
| Davegess |
The H-D engines are going to need far more work long term than the Rotax. They are much more highly stressed because of the age of the design. They are very easy to rebuild which is a good thing because they likely won;t get to 100,000 miles without one. The Rotax has the advantage of being a modern design with a lifetime between major issues several times that of the H-D motor. There are some particular areas that have given problems like the stator but that is more of a teething issue. the Rotax engine is a far better design from a long term reliability standpoint and is screwed together far better at the factory. Not dumping on the line workers at H-D just that the whole system at Rotax allows better quality. | ||
| Bueller_bjorn |
Mine might be a rare case but my 1125r blew up at 6k miles, so I lost all faith in my rotax powered Buell's reliability. Still love it but feel like I can be stranded at any moment. | ||
| S21125r |
I would say air cooled in general is probably a pinch less durable when you are expecting large HP numbers from them. Exhaust valves lead a hard life in an air cooled engine whereas H2O you can target cooling flow at hot spots like valve pockets. Think back to the old VW bug days when proactively changing exhaust valves was as common as changing the oil. Running the engine at the higher operating temperature also means that the oil leads a harder life which affects everything else needing lubrication. Other tolerance like piston to cylinder fit and head clamping pressures have to be on the loose side so that they function properly once the various bits expand. Those doesn't necessarily make it less durable, but could if you choose to flog it when it's still cold. I suppose it comes down to design/execution/purpose and whether you can design around the limitations or offset the trade offs. By trade off I mean you may have to service the top end more frequently, but you have less failure points without radiators/fans/waterpumps/lines/coolant/etc. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I put 58K miles on the X-1 and I have almost 30K on the 1125r. Compared to the hell I went through getting the X-1 to run right (I was at the dealer almost ever week) the 1125r has been a walk in the park. The only downside for me is the expensive service every 12,500 miles (valve clearance) and that's when I start to miss the hydraulic lifters. | ||
| Guambra2001 |
Thank you guys for all the comments, I was thinking some time in the future to buy my wife a Ducati Monster, so I was just wondering since they are air cooled. I've only had liquid cooled bikes and they all worked pretty good, aside from all issues being electrical related in some way. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Then you hit the gas and realize there's a reason they don't use them in the 1125. haha. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I kind of miss having 100 pounds of torque on tap below 6K RPM. It was easy to pass without simultaneously hitting 100MPH. The power band on the Helicon seems to work best at jail-able road speeds. | ||
| Chessm |
speaking of torque....i took my GF's XB12s out last night (just installed Erik Buell Racing ECM woot!) and was amazed to see 75mph at only 3.5K on the tach. damn. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Keep in mind that even though there are still Ford Model T running, doesn't mean they are as advanced as the latest 300 plus HP Ford Twin Turbo V-6 that gets over 25 highway MPG. I love my ULY and think it's one of the best XB ever built, but it's not as quiet, smooth or powerful as some of it's metric water cooled counterparts. | ||
| Chessm |
speaking of smoothness... i have to say that my XB9 and my GFs XB12 feel smoother than my CR. the XBs shake around 3.5K on the tach but the pulses are bigger and farther apart, the CR has a higher frequency jarring buzzing. at freeway cruising speeds the XBs are baby bottom smooth while the CR feels more frenetic. i put bar end weights but they didnt seem to help. it might be a 'broken in' thing (26K+ miles on the 9 and 18K+ on the 12) but i do have close to 10K miles on the CR. i just put Erik Buell Racing ECMs on the 12 and the CR in the last couple of days so ill see if that makes any difference. | ||
| Syonyk |
I know a guy with 80k+ on his 1125R, no problems. I'm at 24k, no problems... The 1125 motor should absolutely be more reliable than the XB motors - it's better balanced, stronger, and holds more constant temperatures. An air (oil) cooled motor gets its oil *hot* in certain conditions, and that doesn't happen nearly as badly with liquid cooling. |
