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Aaron
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 12:47 am: |
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Al, if you'd like any changes to the above, ping me |
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Al_Lighton
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 03:11 am: |
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Cool, Aaron, it came out well on the pages here. Looks as I wrote it. If anyone out there in badweb land has any corrections/clarifications, I'm happy to change it to ensure the most accuracy. Don't want to spread any false info if I screwed up anywhere. Any one else using a similar setup, if you want to comment on your experiences, all the better. And like the article says, thanks Aaron for letting me play. Al |
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Reepicheep
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 08:32 am: |
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Al... Very cool! You are tempting me... a couple questions... I assume this testing has to be done under load. I.E. you cant just rev the engine no load in the driveway and annoy the neighbors. I as this as I have an oscillascope, which I think would give a much better picture of what is going on. If I don't want to weld to the header, is there a heated sensor I could slip in the tail pipe? I guess this may not be applicable if I have to test under load. I guess what you are saying above is that it is a decent way to get the jetting dialed in, but will not measure the quality of the timing adjustment. Those jets are much smaller then I expected... I am running a 200 main (from the factory) for our location (about 800 feet above sea level). |
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X1glider
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 08:50 am: |
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Alright, about time there's something worth reading around here. "Great job" to all those involved in putting the article together. |
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Al_Lighton
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 08:52 am: |
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Bill, The tests for setting the main jet are all WOT, so yea, I think there better be a load unless you want to fetch your piston from the neighbor's roof! There are heated sensors that are otherwise identical in their response curves. But I'm not sure how valid the tests would be if they're not just putting their tip into the stream somewhere. I don't think you can shove the WHOLE sensor into the pipe and expect that the exhaust flow is the same as when it's removed. I had that concern even with putting the tip in, thus the first part of the test to ensure that we didn't hurt power by making the measurement. That said, I think the sensor that Aaron now uses with his dyno shoves into the pipe, but I think it's real long and skinny. It's also a linear response wideband sensor that costs a couple thousand bucks (I think)!! Those jets are Mikuni jets. So the numbers are different than what you'd use with a Keihin (sp?). Mikuni's are great for this kind of testing, you can change the main jet in about two minutes. I was amazed that Aaron would just remove the bottom jet acces plug and drop a bowlful of gas right onto the very hot header. But he does it all the time, it won't flash. |
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Sarodude
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 10:05 am: |
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Al- Great stuff. I do take some issue with the statement regarding stoichiometric a/f providing the best mileage. Lean Burn gasoline engines have been toyed with and mass produced (at least by Honda) in the interests of fuel efficiency. Minor point as those were very specifically developed motors. Great article worthy of a great magazine. I'm glad it surfaced here instead of disappearing. -Saro |
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Jerome
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 03:59 pm: |
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Al : really great job ! Thumbs-up and congratulations ! It's so nice to see dyno tests combined with A/F ratio reading on the Autometer gauge ! Too bad Battle2Win disappears before this great article gets published. I hope that it will stay visible within the BWB board and that it will convince some other carburated-Buell owners to install this great and relatively cheap tool. Mine is still on-board and used to keep my Mikuni in good tuning conditions. |
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Shotgun
| Posted on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:40 pm: |
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Great article Al. If anybueller would like to borrow my Nordskag A/F guage, O2 sensor, extra bung, hole saw, let me know. Pay to ship it both ways. Mine is a heated sensor, set up to plug into any SAE outlet like those used for battery chargers or heated clothing outlets. A muffler shop can install the bung. They usually have extra Bosch universal bungs on hand anyway. Ping me if you're interested. |
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Scot
| Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 02:05 am: |
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Heres a picture of a a/f gauge that I am making. It is a billet display that will wrap partially around my tachometer. This is my first attempt at a milling project. I have a vert. mill I'm trying to teach myself how to use.
![](http://pages.sbcglobal.net/ssandersons/afguage.jpg) |
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Bomber
| Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 02:40 pm: |
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just a data pooint . . .I met a rider with an autometer sensor (I believe) who said that running gasahol ate up sensors at a high rate of speed . . . . with the spread of higher percentages of corn in our gas, this could represent a problem . . . . I hasten to add that I have no direct experience with this, just reporting one person's data |
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Al_Lighton
| Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 04:15 pm: |
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It would in fact represent such a problem that I doubt it can be true. These sensors (in different variants all fundamentally based on the same technologies) are in virtually every car made any more. It would seem incomprehensible that there would be commercial grade lead-free gasoline that is capable of destroying these sensors. I could be wrong, but it just seems very unlikely. The gasloine company would get a HUGE lawsuit. Al |
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Ocbueller
| Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 07:12 pm: |
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Scot, Nice work, keep up the posts with the finished product. SteveH |
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Rick_A
| Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 10:53 pm: |
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Great write-up! It's got my wheels turnin' |
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Bomber
| Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:46 pm: |
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Al . . .. .no argument from me . . .. just reporting one guy's experience with one brand of sensor . . . . . |
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Kucenskm
| Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:07 pm: |
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The article mentions several different O2 sensors. What are the differences between these sensors aside from the price? Which sensor was used throughout these tests? |
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Al_Lighton
| Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 08:16 pm: |
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I believe that the only significant difference in the sensors is minor physical geometry and possibly connectors. All of them have been successfully used on Buell FI bikes. They should all have essentially the same non-linear response curves around the stoichiometric point, but may have minor variations on the absolute voltage of the knee of the curve. Bottom line, any of them will work, if you remember that you are looking for the meter ballistics to determine the knee, not the absolute voltage. I used the K&N sensor for the tests, which looks identical to the stock buell sensor physically. I'm sure K&N doesn't make it, it's just repackaged and marked up. I bought it to get the fitting, but the fitting isn't really suitable for this application, it is short and straight and puts way too much sensor protrucion into the pipe. I don't know how much that would've hurt power, but as the article says, the fitting I built didn't hurt power at all. Al |
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Scot
| Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 01:28 am: |
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There is also the 2 wire vs. 4 wire O2 sensor. The 4 wire has a heater element in it that I believe gets the sensor up to operating temperature quickly. |
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Al_Lighton
| Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 09:18 am: |
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Actually, I think there 1 wire, two wire, and 4 wire sensors. I'm sure of 1 and 4, and THINK I remember reading about 2. All of the ones listed in the article are one wire sensors, just like Buell uses for their FI system. The return is thru the body to ground, just like a spark plug. I suspect that two wire sensors provide a wired return, and that 4 wire sensors are heated 2 wire sensors with a hot and return wire for the heater element. But all that's just a guess. I've only physically held a 1 wire sensor in my hand. The heated sensors are needed if you remote the sensor way down the pipe to the collector. I'd read before the test that idling for extended periods would cause the unheated sensor to cool and give false readings, but that hasn't been my experience. Buells seem to do just fine with their unheated sensors on the FI bikes. The sensor is up to temp and providing consistent readings within 20-30 seconds of starting the bike. Al |
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Blake
| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 03:54 pm: |
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Great article Al! Something came up recently in another discussion that has me thinking. With the sensor on only one main header pipe we are only getting information for that particular cylinder, the rear cylinder in your test case and the stock Buell DDFI case. As much as I hate stringing wires all over a bike, would it not be much better, given the risk of intake leaks, to either put a heated sensor downstream of the collector, or to install a 2nd sensor on the front header pipe? |
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Peter
| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 04:32 pm: |
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There are 1,2,3 and 4 wire sensors available. I use a 3 wire, which means the sensor earth is through the header. 3 and 4 are heated. 2 and 4 have a separate wire for the sensor earth. The problem with setting up stoichometric combustion with the sensor in the collector or later, is that the rear cylinder normally runs leaner. If the average between the two cylinders is perfect, the rear cylinder is then running the risk of a too lean condition. PPiA |
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Blake
| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 05:30 pm: |
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As long as we know that, we can adjust mapping or jetting accordingly, right? But if the front cylinder develops an intake seal leak and we only have a sensor on the rear cylinder, it goes completely unaddressed. Maybe two sensors with a switch to the readout panel would be the best diagnostic tool for a carbureted bike? |
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Blake
| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 05:33 pm: |
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Besides, we're not talking about stoichiometric, we're talking about max power. Silly Ozzie. |
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Rempss
| Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 08:56 pm: |
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I am putting an O2 sensor in the mirror location of the rear in the front pipe to log that information. Running 4 wire SMP brand O2's. I have been prompted to do this after reading a passage in the Big Twin HP Guide by D.W. Denish. Oddly enough he states that the front cylinder is more apt to run lean than the rear due to the uneven timing between intake pulses in the 45 degree V-twin. I don't have the book in front of me right now but I believe his term is either "normally" or "usually" this is the case. My plugs have confirmed this, but the O2 will do a better job. I need to get to the bottom of this. Jeff |
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Peter
| Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 02:25 am: |
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Blake, M2 location.
S1 location.
However, I am making a new header for the S1 at the moment and will also be doing the same as Jeff and fitting one at each head. I also have an EGT sensor after the turbo to monitor the combined effects. Jeff, He could be right. PPiA |
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Joelber
| Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 04:01 pm: |
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A couple of dumb questions?? Does the xr2 forcewinder intake system ad any hp?? or is it just for looks?? If you add it: is it a good idea to take the air scoop off the other side?? I have a 99 x1--race kit in already |
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Ryker77
| Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
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Does the Hipo 02's sensor for the pcIII work with this guage system? I would assume that the hipo 02 sensor is a narrow band sensor.. and a BIG thanks for posting this great article! |
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Ryker77
| Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 11:31 am: |
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OK. I've got the A/F gauge installed and almost wired up. Just need to know which wire on the 4-wire 02 sensor to use??? With the o2 sensor unplugged one wire looks like it should be the sensor wire. But when I connect the PCIII that same wire goes to 12v. So I tried the purple wire and it reads .512 with the switch on and engine not running. With the engine running the purple wire (PCIII harness) will increase to .545+/-. Has anybody wired up an A/F gauge with the 4 wire o2 sensor?? 02 x1 with PCIII |
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Ryker77
| Posted on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:33 pm: |
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Well I tapped the purple wire and got it right. At idle my x1 will bounce around toward the rich section then as it lopes it will flash lean just a quick flash. I think the bike needs it TPS reset and/or replaced and probably the plugs since it has been running very rich. |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 02:39 am: |
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Great article. Need to bookmark. |
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