| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
I just installed my eb r ECM with Barker tune. I reset the tps and let it idle for 10 minutes. After a short trip up the road, I noticed that engine braking is a lot less than stock. I had requested that the tune have engine braking at least the same as stock and even more if possible, but it doesn't seem like that is the case. I've sent an email to eb r but figured I'd ask here--has anyone ordered the Barker eb r ECM with same as stock engine braking? If so, does the engine braking actually feel comparable to stock? | ||
| Dannybuell |
The Idle Air Control (IAC) is what needs to be reset to stock. I too like lots of decelleration and when I had my Erik Buell Racing ECM I asked for and got them to restore the stock IAC setting. It came pretty close to stock when they did it. I suppose you could ask for more than stock... | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I assume that the IAC reset isn't something that I can't do--it's programmed into the tune? IE, is there any way I can improve the engine braking myself or am I probably going to have to send the ECM back for a retune? | ||
| Dannybuell |
If you can prove you they didn't give you what you asked for I would expect this 'reflash' to be done for free, otherwise it is $35.00 | ||
| Gemini |
this is something i have been playing with for a little while....blindly i guess. the question i have is does changing the iac setpoint table to either increase or decrease the engine braking, are there also changes needed to the fuel table to keep the motor happy? i understand that when the iac is opened up more, that the tps is also calulated higher based on programing. i have been trying to tweak mine to get the decel while in gear similar to as when the clutch is squeezed without being open so much as the keep powering the bike forward while under hard braking with the clutch engaged(clutch lever out). i personaly want to have very little engine braking. in my opinion, part of my brake puslation problems has been brake pad deposits on the rotor from the brakes not being used hard enough/ brought to a high enough "normal" working temp. i reduced engine braking and now get to "use" front brakes with a little more power and the tendancy to get a brake pulsation like feel from the front brake is gone. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Erik Buell Racing is not a mean corporation, just email them and explain the situation, I'm sure they will take care of you, they are really nice guys. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Yeah, I'm sure eb r will take care of me--I'm just trying to make sure that it does have the reduced engine braking as opposed to "stock". I did some riding today and if the bike is under 5000rpm and I let off the throttle on a slight downhill grade, the bike barely decelerates at all--like 1mph every 100 yards or so. It decelerates slightly quicker on level ground but it's only 2-3mph over the same distance that bleeds off 1mph under the slight downhill grade. It's definitely a lot less engine braking than with the stock ECM, but I just wan to be sure that this sounds like my eb r ECM does have reduced engine braking. Can you guys confirm? | ||
| Dannybuell |
A Stock Erik Buell Racing ECM diesels whereas a factory ECM gives good decel. If you want more decel you have to ask for it. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
Racers generally want less engine braking, because a racer doesn't want the bike interfering. that's why Erik Buell Racing lessens the engine braking on the race ecm, but they can keep it the same, you just have to tell them when you order it. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I did request engine braking to be reduced to either stock levels or, if possible, more than stock. To be honest, I HATE the reduced engine braking. There are many occasions in the last couple of days when riding where I want some braking while off the throttle without having to use the brakes. I dislike the reduced engine braking so much that I would choose the stock ECM over the EB R one at this point. Anyway, hopefully I'll hear back from EB R in the next day or two and get this resolved. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Thefleshrocket - I know how you feel. I went back to stock for that reason and charging issues. | ||
| Mechanicsn |
I have noted that the fans run a lot more, especially after killing the engine, which would be more taxing on the battery. The reduced engine braking threw me off a bit at first but I acclimated quickly and prefer it now. When maintaining a spirited pace of the back roads letting off the throttle doesn't upset the chassis as much. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
I prefer the less engine braking. Its way smoother in the corners. Once you get used to it you will never want to go back. | ||
| Jdugger |
> i have been trying to tweak mine to get the decel while in gear similar to as when the > clutch is squeezed without being open so much as the keep powering the bike forward > while under hard braking with the clutch engaged(clutch lever out). Pull the leads to the clutch switch. When the clutch is squeezed, the IAC programming is ignored, and the bike goes into idle mode. So, as you are going into a corner and down shift with the clutch switch connected, you are actually toggling between the IAC programming and idle programming. If you disconnect the clutch switch, you will notice the bike retains a "high idle" when in gear. Shift into neutral and the bike will go back to regular idle. Also, the little "surge" you get when letting out the clutch at a stop will disappear; instead, as soon as you click into gear the motor will run on the IAC programming. Mine is something close to 3,000 RPM, but I had them put in the most generous IAC programming they could. | ||
| Gemini |
i am ok with the bike toggling between idle(neutral) mode and back. what i was refering to was when riding in a given gear around 4-5000 rpms and release the throttle, it had a pretty good decel from the engine braking. i have mine now getting closer to the upper limit of having the iac open too much for a given rpm. very light decel from engine braking but not open so much as to try to push bike foward with too much power under hard braking(that scared the crap out of me the first time i had the iac set a little too high at 3500 rpms). i tried contacting Erik Buell Racing about if a fueling change was needed when changing the iac setpoint. i understand it is a buisness they are trying to run but i was disappointed when they would not give me insight as to if a fuel change was needed or not. wasn't asking them were to change, what to change or by how much. thier responce was political "ecmspy can cause problems, too many veriables, blah blah blah". i get all of that. my question was simple with only one variable in question. oh well. when the time allows, i will have to run the stock iac settings and run a data log and run another with the modified iac and see if injector pulsewith is different under similar conditions as well as ego and afv. makes me really sit back and abosrb this situation for when the next time comes around and a customer or potential customer asks a custom application question. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
EB R support confirmed that the ECM shipped was an off-the-shelf unit without the stock engine braking mod that I'd asked for. I'm shipping it back and they're going to reflash it. On a side note, I rode to work today with the stock ECM back in the bike (swapped it out last night) and it rode really well. If I didn't know I'd taken out the EB R ECM, I wouldn't have known the difference. I'm guessing that having the ECM out reset the AFVs. Also, I did reset the TPS after putting the stock ECM back in but didn't bother to let it idle to reset the IAC--I doubt that would have an effect, but who knows. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
A follow up to my initial riding impression after switching back to the stock ECM--the ride home was a good bit less smooth than the ride to work. Granted, I'm only talking about a 10-minute commute, but I could actually tell the difference between the stock ECM and the EB R ECM. I'll probably do some back-to-back riding impressions when I get the reflashed ECM back. | ||
| Syonyk |
It felt to me like the Erik Buell Racing ECM added a cylinder.  I think the stock ECM ends up running one cylinder very lean at a normal cruise - it almost feels like a thumper at times, and in general it feels like the two cylinders aren't making the same power most of the time. The race ECM, though... *grins* | ||
| Dirty_john |
I quite like the lack of engine braking with the Erik Buell Racing race ECM, reminds me of all the two strokes I had years ago - Erik Buell Racing's idea with the closed throttle decel performance was to prevent rear wheel hop under hard braking, as I understand this - it works fine in my opinion, had the same effect with the race ECM on my Firebolt and that always made me grin, I am convinced it kept my corner entry speed up. (Message edited by Dirty_john on May 12, 2011) (Message edited by Dirty_john on May 12, 2011) | ||
| Jules |
I am convinced it kept my corner entry speed up +1 Although initially that was because I "forgot" that there was reduced engine braking and enter the corner a bit quicker than I'd anticipated (allowing for the non-existing) engine braking.. After a couple of weeks I got used to it and compensated for it and like alot of other people I now prefer the reduced engine braking. I do have to warn my friends when I loan them the bike though, more than one of them has come back with a very white face after entering corners quicker than they'd expected LOL | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I'm definitely not a convert--after a twisty backroad with the reduced engine braking, I hated it. Stock, the bike allows you to have a little braking done without relying on the brakes. (Some of you may suggest that using engine braking is "wrong".. I strongly disagree.) With reduced engine braking, the ability to do so is gone. This is effectively removing one of the options for how to slow the bike. How anyone thinks that fewer options is better than more options is beyond me. | ||
| Jdugger |
> This is effectively removing one of the options for how to slow the bike. > How anyone thinks that fewer options is better than more options is beyond me. It's a compromise to gain rear tire edge grip under trail braking and corner entry by trading off what is a relatively ineffective way to slow the the bike. A secondary benefit is the way it helps maintain corner entry momentum without sophisticated and delicate rider skills I find difficult to master. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Thefleshrocket - I feel the same way, I like engine braking. I too see engine braking as another tool/option. "How anyone thinks that fewer options is better than more options is beyond me." LOL +1 --> :-) | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
Stock, the bike allows you to have a little braking done without relying on the brakes. (Some of you may suggest that using engine braking is "wrong".. I strongly disagree.) With reduced engine braking, the ability to do so is gone. This is effectively removing one of the options for how to slow the bike. How anyone thinks that fewer options is better than more options is beyond me. Race program, the bike allows you to maintain speed when letting off the gas. (Some of you may suggest that you should decelerate as if you applied the breaks when throttle is cut, or it's "wrong".. I strongly disagree.) With normalized engine speed, the ability to maintain speed is a feature. This is effectively adding one more option to keep the bike's pace. How anyone thinks that fewer options is better than more options is beyond me. | ||
| Zac4mac |
The reduced engine braking is definitely a "race" improvement. If I ride like every piece of a second counts, it is a good thing. However, if I'm commuting and taking it easy, flowing WITH traffic instead of seeing them as slalom pylons, I miss it a LOT. Depends on your needs and riding style. Fortunately, it IS a customizable option. Z | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
So, if you don't want engine braking, why not do what I do--just don't close the throttle all the way? It works great for me! Lol | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I should have my updated ECM on Monday. On a side note, I checked my coolant for the first time in 4400 miles, having bought the bike new. It was only an inch below the full cold line. |
