| Author | Message | ||
     Xtreme6669 |
Overview: Riding my 1125CR on Bush Highway from Canyon lake toward Usury Pass... Most of the highway is 2 lane with a double yellow line "no passing" but there is a section where there is a rest area on left side of the road and for that rest area the highway is 3 lanes with a "left turn lane" for the rest area... I was behind a truck pulling a trailer with an off road vehicle on it doing under the posted limit and used the "turn lane" to pass the truck... turns out that up the road a bit coming the other direction was a Sheriff suv who saw me make this pass... I never saw him until a few miles up the road when he had turned around and come up behind me. He pulled me over and scalded me a bit then wrote me a citation 28-727. I googled the citation and it reads that this lane can be used to make a pass... Here is what I found regarding AZ violation code 28-727: If a roadway is divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic, the following rules in addition to all others consistent with this section apply: 1. A person shall drive a vehicle as nearly as practicable entirely within a single lane and shall not move the vehicle from that lane until the driver has first ascertained that the movement can be made with safety. 2. On a roadway that is divided into three lanes, a person shall not drive a vehicle in the center lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and the center lane is clear of traffic within a safe distance, or in preparation for a left turn or where the center lane is at the time allocated exclusively to traffic moving in the direction the vehicle is proceeding and is signposted to give notice of the allocation. 3. Official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or designating those lanes to be used by traffic moving in a particular direction regardless of the center of the roadway, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of every sign. It seems to me that section #2 gives me a possible "out" Any opinions?? | ||
| Usanigel |
Going by what you wrote, you moved over to make a left turn (but went straight this being what you really intended) . The amount of effort the cop made to catch up to you was excessive, but it's what they do, I'm sure he broke many rules in the process. I would think you're stuck with the fine and what goes with it. I don't think there is anytime you can use a turning lane to pass. You might plead you were thinking that was the turn you were looking for then realized it was too soon to turn off the road you were on and went straight instead. Might just get to pay and no points as these towns want the money! | ||
| Duphuckincati |
I'd have to say close but no cigar. I'm not a lawyer or cop, but it would seem that the court will see that as improperly using a designated use lane. As to the slim possible "out" you may have, did you start and complete the pass within the distance the lane exist? If not, you may consider a name change to Ben Dover. | ||
| Usanigel |
More thinking. Check the road signs and road markings, if it is signed left turn only then I think you're stuck but if not and it's posted like an overtaking lane then you might get away with it. Photos would help you if that's the case. $239 ouch! (Message edited by Usanigel on April 24, 2011) | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
I just realized what I posted above was referring to 28-729 not 727... Here is what I found on Google that made me think I have a chance: http://www.sportbikeworld.com/showthread.php?t=162 49 In my case it was a mostly 2 lane hwy but the section I passed in was in face 3 lanes... I need to head back out to snap some pics and look at the markings and signs... (Message edited by xtreme6669 on April 24, 2011) | ||
| Sprintst |
Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Did I mention Get a Lawyer? I don't fight any tickets myself now. The system is set up where you can pay a lawyer and the fees you would normally pay, they know the judge/DA and get the ticket knocked down to some bs improper equipment ticket. I've had 3 done this way, and the wife 1. Worth every penny | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
You're toast. The first paragraph of 729 says: "If a roadway is divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic, the following rules in addition to all others consistent with this section apply" This means he can ding you on anything in there even if it isn't explicitly called out, and 727 is what they'll get you on. Your defense is that you actually fall under 725. However 727, the specific violation to you, specifically says that it's up to the cop on if you violated it or not. It looks like 729 is the generic catch all. Lastly, your link is from 2002, whereas the law links were updated in 2010. I would be surprised if they allowed such a mistake to exist for close to a decade. http://law.onecle.com/arizona/transportation/28-72 9.html http://law.onecle.com/arizona/transportation/28-72 7.html http://law.onecle.com/arizona/transportation/28-72 5.html | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
He might get you on 726, too. The whole "28" section is fair game. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Sounds like you're hosed. At least here in Maryland, a turn lane is not a "lane", but an "access". A third lane...isn't a lane. It's a shoulder, down the middle of the road. Not for travel use. | ||
| Jdugger |
Get a lawyer. If it's a small town, the defense attorney in town is probably the DA's brother or father or other relative. You will pay the attorney $75-$150. You will then get a plea offer from the judge of "pay some nominal fine, and we will give you probation for 30 days in our county." I got 15 tickets one year and not a one of them stuck. All they want is your money, and if you are willing to offer it, you can get whatever you want. | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
I don't mind paying the fine or the attorney fee I just don't want the points on my license! I'm just wanting to gauge to see if there is any way I can get out of this thing or if it's just a waste of my time | ||
| Bueller4ever |
You should have passed on the shoulder, then he would not have seen you. Scolded you? Screw that, I'm to old to be belittled by an over payed meter maid. Sometimes I think cops are just bored. It's not all cops and robbers like they thought it'd be. | ||
| Jdugger |
If you get an atty, part of the probation is keeping the ticket from showing up. A lot of times, the judge will actually dismiss the case after you pay court costs and a civil fine of approximately the amount of the ticket. It's basically bribery and corruption, but small towns and counties are so broke these days traffic revenue is one of the few options they have, and they are using it aggressively. Again, just offer money. You will probably get any kind of settlement you ask for if you just offer money. | ||
| Dannybuell |
A turn lane implies an intersection which is never a good place to pass. | ||
| Fast1075 |
It's all about luck and how the cop feels. I got a ticket for speeding a few months ago from a trooper..oncoming up doppler shot...cop was in an unmarked car...situation was a set up....the PERFECT place to issue lots of tickets..nice wide new road thru the middle of NO FREAKIN' WHERE...posted at 60...you come over a hill and the speed limit drops to 45 with no warning...is BOOM!...45...I got caught in the transition from 60-45...I WAS slowing down after I saw the sign all of a sudden...cop goes past. I am down to legal speed...no problem, I figure (never had a problem before in 42 years of driving)...cop turns around and pulls me. She writes me up for 52 in a 45...ticket was $185.00...I pointed out that I had slowed down when I saw the lower limit sign and suggested that there should be some consideration...I was quite told that if I had a beef, that I could end up with additional charges for lipping off. Gets better, I went to pay the ticket, and could not, because the ticket number had already been used...the lady at the courthouse explained that there were 71 other known cases from that same computer in that same car with that same trooper...I suggested that if the computer couldn't keep up with the ticket numbers, it was likely that the same system detected my speed in error....helpful clerk says it will be pay the ticket or hire a lawyer... I spoke with a riding buddy that just happens to be a county sheriff...he said if it was a county vehicle and deputy, the vehicle with it's faulty equipment would have been pulled from service and any tickets issued would be dismissed. I called and spoke with the captain of the troop the car was from...he very brusquely informed me (like the clerk) I could pay the ticket, show up in court with a lawyer I can't afford, or go to jail...never mind time from work and lost wages. I paid the freakin' fine once they issued me a new ticket. I found out that this little piece of road is so lucrative, there are officers that do nothing but "patrol" it to assure "public safety"...public safety my ass...it's a freakin' goldmine.. Oh on the passing someone in the turning lane...bad mojo...in Florida it is ok to pass on the RIGHT side if the other vehicle is actively making a left turn using a separate left turn only lane. The bottom line is small things that used to never have a second glance have become one of the major sources of income to feed bloated government. and so much of it is absolute  | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
You passed in a turning lane, in many states that is against the law. Deal with it. Either dont be stupid in the future or get ready to shell out some coin on lawyer/fines etc | ||
| Kenm123t |
State Road 80 runs from West Palm Beach to Ft Myers Fl in just west of the SO office its a speed trap ever 1/2 mile. the road built to interstate standards as a local express way guess the sparsely posted speed limit 55 for a mile then 35 back to 55 and it gets better its not the same east bound to west bound east is 55 west is 35 and it alternates every 1/2 mile. Prety much any road in So fla is a speed trap, cops trying not get laid off | ||
| Rogue_biker |
From what you wrote, you can successfully argue all that in court and get the fine reduced or the violation dismissed. YOu have use the law to argue your case and that is exactly what you just did above. Bravo! Give it a try and see what happens! Most judges want to give you a break especially if you use the law to explain your case and show the judge you learned something. The cop just wanted to give you a ticket. 99% of traffic cops have a hard on for sportbikes. No matter what they say, sportbikes, sportscars, and rich guys in expensive cars ALWAYS get priority in getting tickets! I was told that by a traffic lawyer! | ||
| Jdugger |
> Either dont be stupid in the future or get ready to shell out some coin The point being missed with this comment is 20-30 years ago as long as your actions were safe and reasonable, minor nits didn't earn you a citation. Today, roads are deliberately designed to be difficult to traverse legally, or enforced ridiculously tightly to the letter of the law without reasonable consideration for conditions and circumstance. This is done either with frequent and bizarre changes to speed limits, or with difficult and/or confusing signs, rigid enforcement, and so on. The difference *now* is traffic enforcement is primarily a necessary supplemental revenue stream for municipalities and counties. If it were about safety, why would any court make it so easy to just pay extra money and not have the fine reported on your license? That specific procedure is called "deferred adjudication" in Texas, and it's almost comically widely practiced. Care for some scientific evidence? Here's a neat study conducted by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis: http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2006/2006-048.pd f The abstract: "Municipalities have revenue motives for enforcing traffic laws in addition to public safety motives because many traffic offenses are punished via fines and the issuing municipality often retains the revenue. Anecdotal evidence supports this revenue motive. We empirically test this revenue motive using a panel of annual data for North Carolina counties from 1990 to 2003. We find that significantly more tickets are issued in the year following a decline in revenue, but the issuance of traffic tickets does not decline in years following revenue increases. Elasticity estimates reveal that a ten percent decrease in negative revenue growth results in a 6.4 percent increase in the growth rate of traffic tickets. Our results suggest that tickets are used as a revenue generation tool rather than solely a means to increase public safety. " Sobering, really. (Message edited by jdugger on April 24, 2011) | ||
| Jdugger |
> you can successfully argue all that in court and get the fine reduced or the violation dismissed. I doubt it, honestly. Arguing your case on legal or technical grounds, even if you can prove your innocence or even complete disregard for the law by the officer is unlikely to be successful. In practice, traffic court isn't felony court, and a pretty wide disregard for the constitution is in play. You can absolutely expect, for example, your case to be dismissed with court costs more than the ticket, or for the judge to simply find you guilty and since it's traffic, there's really no way to appeal. The correct answer is to offer to pay more money and simply protect your driving record. Some day in the future, there will finally be enough citizen discontent with this behavior of officials and police to have some change brought to the situation. But, for now, the cheapest solution is still to simply offer more money. (and do your best to stay away from the police in general) | ||
| Sprintst |
Get a lawyer. If it's a small town, the defense attorney in town is probably the DA's brother or father or other relative. You will pay the attorney $75-$150. You will then get a plea offer from the judge of "pay some nominal fine, and we will give you probation for 30 days in our county." I got 15 tickets one year and not a one of them stuck. All they want is your money, and if you are willing to offer it, you can get whatever you want. EXACTLY. Folks, it's all about the money. Years ago I tried to fight a ticket in a Maryland court. Before session, the judge warned us all he could take each ticket and up it to $500 at his sole discretion. I should have walked and paid my $50 ticket while I could, because he upped mine to $500. The Courts DO NOT want you in there. It's System, and you need to hire someone that is part of the System. All these traffic tickets we pay and the lawyers we hire help pay for the court appointed pro-bono stuff. They want your money, they don't want your face in a court room. EVERY ticket I've gotten and used a lawyer on has been knocked down to some type of improper equipment, fine only. Saving me thousands of $$ on insurance.} My ticket going to court w/my lawyer this week was bogus. Neighbors have complained about folks racing around (yes, some of it was me) and when the cop saw me on a racy bike he pulled me over and claimed 70 in a 55 mph. Just enough to force me to go to court, where he can tell the judge about the neighborhood complaints. I was doing 61 mph, not 70, and certainly not exactly the speed needed to make me go to court. However, I'll let the lawyer get me a improper equipment, pay my taxes and get on with my life. Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Get a Lawyer Did I mention Get a Lawyer? (Message edited by sprintst on April 24, 2011) | ||
| Bartimus |
wow, that fine would pay for your whole weekend at SpringFast! That sux, I know the road, nice curves, I try to avoid it on Saturdays, less folks on Sundays... Good Luck! | ||
| Redduck124 |
"I found out that this little piece of road is so lucrative, there are officers that do nothing but "patrol" it to assure "public safety"...public safety my ass...it's a freakin' goldmine.." I don't know where you are, but there are laws against speed traps. I'd talk to every local newspaper and television station I could contact about doing a story. If it was me, I'd spend an afternoon sitting and documenting (even videoing if possible) that section of road, then offer the documentation to the press. I have a thing about abuse of power and that is a clear cut case, and yes I have been arrested before to prove my point. What happened? After my attorney had a little talk with a superior officer, they agreed to drop the charges if I agreed not to sue them. Check this site. http://www.helpigotaticket.com/speed/stepbystep.ht ml | ||
| Kinder |
Didn't read all the posts as based on what you found while part 2) may look like it gives you an out part 3) closes the door. "3. Official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or designating those lanes to be used by traffic moving in a particular direction regardless of the center of the roadway, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of every sign. " Last part... 'vehicles shall obey the directions of every sign.' You didn't. Sucks to be you. Only hope you have is that the sheriff did not maintain a constant view of you so as long as there were a couple of turn outs where a rider could have exited and you did not admit to the infraction when talking to the sheriff you may be able to present reasonable grounds that it wasn't you. | ||
| Jdugger |
> but there are laws against speed traps Varies widely state-to-state. We have them in Texas, too, but what counties and small cities do is simply not report most of the tickets they write, or they add "state fees" to the local ticket amounts. 10 over will get you a $300 fine sometimes. A buddy of mine parked with his trailer in the "loading" section of a handicapped spot at 6:30a on a Saturday morning at McDoland's and a copy gave him a $750 ticket (no kidding) for it. Well, the maximum fine for this class of offence in Texas is $500. So, the city (grand prairie) considers it a "civil fine", not a criminal one. It's pretty tough right now NOT to get cited for *something*. And, the fines are really high. It's how the local governments raise money. For some of them, traffic citations are easily more than 50% of the local budget. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Judges agree with cops, even when they're wrong. See Boss Hogg and Rosco. | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
I'll give you some ticket advice! Twist that throttle and peace out of there hahaha. Popos in my town never get into pursuit even the stateys let it go its kinda nice. | ||
| Ratgin |
I'll give you some ticket advice! Twist that throttle and peace out of there hahaha There's quality advice. Turn your ticket into a felony. Whole thing just never happens if you didn't pass in a turning lane. Want to drive fast int he twisty's maybe head to the track, | ||
| Sprintst |
Twist that throttle and peace out of there hahaha Well, that's assuming they don't have your plate on camera} | ||
| Georgehitch17 |
Im just messin around but you are correct you cant get a ticket on a racetrack! And a little fyi eluding police is not a felony |
