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     Vagelis46 |
It seems that Rossi's fans tend to support Pedrosa over Stoner , while it is pretty obvious who the best rider is. Pedrosa failed miserably to impress in his 5 years in motoGP. Development skills ?? So far he used to be very critical of Honda, and was very slow to chose directions. Pedrosa used to be very critical for Hayden , but as soon as he lead the development , where was his great results ??? Nowhere, really. On the other hand Stoner seems very relaxed and happy to join Honda, he always says that the RCV is fantastic , so HRC people are very motivated and happy with their new rider. I personally think that Honda improved a lot since Stoner joined HRC. Even Aoyama and Simoncelli are riding faster. It also seems that , as strange and difficult the Duc has been, Stoner's settings were the ones that were getting the best from the bike. Rossi, after trying different things, returned to Stoner's setup. Stoner is poor in development ??? I wonder how many months it will take for this myth to get busted, even for the Rossi diehard fans. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Seriously... how much "development" do you REALLY think Stoner has contributed? He's been on the bike for what... a few months?? Pedrosa has been on that bike for YEARS. Stoner is riding Dani's bike for all intents and purposes, and as Matt already pointed out Stoner is very good at jumping on anything and going fast out of the box (or crashing while trying). As for his development skills... you can see just how well he develops a bike by seeing how Nicky Hayden, Marco Melandri and Valentino Rossi are doing on the bike HE developed. Even this year's Yamaha M1 is essentially Vale's bike because of all the years of input he put into it. It won't be till the 1000s come into play next year that we'll see how well Ben and Jorge can develop a bike (and as a long time fan of Ben Spies, I think he develops bikes just fine though he recently admitted he's more of a racer, not a tester). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
I personally think that Honda improved a lot since Stoner joined HRC. Even Aoyama and Simoncelli are riding faster. It has nothing to do with both Gresini riders getting full factory bikes then? Stoner hasn't developed a thing since joining Honda. he has chosen parts that were developed before the end of last year but he hasn't had a hand in any of the development yet. Stoner is a very fast rider who gets on any bike and rides at 110%, but you won't find anyone in the paddock (except maybe Mrs Stoner) who rates his development skills, so it isn't just Rossi fans saying it. Stoner is poor in development ??? I wonder how many months it will take for this myth to get busted, even for the Rossi diehard fans. Lets see at the end of the year just which parts Stoner develops? Pedrosa has led the development of the Honda for 4 years and has suffered from bad press even though he has won races and inished second in teh championship. However The bike is now getting to the point of being a consistent race winner. Every year until now Dani has started the year injured with a bike that was not ready. This year Honda have pulled out all the stops to have the bike ready for the first test and it has reflected in the test times for all their riders. Racing isn't testing, so we will see how that translates to race results. I'm sure the Hondas will win the first few races until the others catch up. Yamaha need more power and Ducati need more time to sort their problems out, but from mid season I think it will get more interesting. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
More on Stoner's development skills: He won the title the first year on a brand new, essentially undeveloped bike. After that, what? Now he's on a brand new bike and he's really fast on it. But he didn't develop it; Dani Pedrosa did. His skills as a developer will be more apparent NEXT year. This year, he's riding Dani's bike. Casey is a typical Aussie racer: Win, or crash. He isn't content to settle for points. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Rossi is quite simply the best rider of his generation and one of the best ever. Is he right this minute still the best? Likely not, he is getting old and is slipping down from the heights he has occupied. BUT he still has substantial skills and his experience will counteract some of the age. If he can overcome that nasty shoulder injury, and many before him have not done so, he will be a threat. Stoner, Pedrosi, Lorenzo, all good riders. Let's discuss how they compare to Rossi in ten years. I bet that none of them will be close to his wins or titles. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Rossi is quite simply the best rider of his generation and one of the best ever. Is he right this minute still the best? I think it depends on how you define 'best'. He certainly isn't the outright fastest at the moment, but he is the one that you would put money on week in week out to be at or near the front when the race finishes simply because of his skill, racecraft and experience. Other riders may have more speed but none have the combination of skills that he has...yet. Stoner, Pedrosi, Lorenzo, all good riders. Let's discuss how they compare to Rossi in ten years. I bet that none of them will be close to his wins or titles. +1 exactly  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
As for the "best ever" I don't count number of wins or even number of titles. I look for races and titles they won that everyone said they couldn't. Rossi on the Yamaha, the consensus was that it would take him a while to get that pig working right and it might take all year to win a race. Hailwood had no business winning the TT in what '78? Roberts changed the way racers raced. If you didn't adopt his DT style you were done. I don't see Stoner or anyone else except Rossi being at that level EXCEPT maybe Spies. Lets see how he does this year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
What about the guy who was the youngest EVER MotoGP winner? The one who took the pole position in the first three races he ever entered on an 800GP bike? Not only took the pole position, but podiumed in all three AND won in just his third try? All while being on the exact same equipment as the afore-mentioned "Greatest Of All Time?" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
I don't see Stoner or anyone else except Rossi being at that level EXCEPT maybe Spies. Lets see how he does this year. Spies is certainly an exceptional talent and has come straight into the series and been competitive from day one. However the one thing that holds me back from comparing him to any of the 'greats' yet is that he came into MotoGp onto the best bike (albeit not quite as good as the factory Yams but certainly better than the the rest), and hasn't shown yet that he can develop a bike from scratch or make a poor bike into a winner in the same way that Rossi and few others have managed to do. Freddie Spencer springs to mind as one of the few, but even he couldn't keep it going for as long as Rossi has without cracking. Maybe Ben Spies will go on to be a GP legend as well, but it is early days yet and he still has to win championship number one. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
I agree with Trojan, Ben has potential but does need to accomplish stuff. As far as Lorenzo, same deal, excellent racer, has some way to go to get into the best ever discussions. And it takes more than winning races, overcoming top level talent, winning on bikes that no one else is winning on etc. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Valentino fifth fastest after FP1. Still have doubters out there? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Dave, keep in mind Jorge is only 23... he's got quite a long career ahead of him. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Losail International Circuit Doha, Qatar March 17, 2011 Free Practice #1 Best Lap Times:
Wow! Go Hector! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Wow! Go Hector! Barbera's time was apparently made at the very end of the session by tailgating and getting a tow (something that he has a habit of doing and doesn't endear him to other riders!) from Nicky Hayden. Just to add insult to injury he then slowed and cut Hayden up in turn 2, ruining Hayden's last lap chance to improve. I'm pretty sure that by the time qualifying arrives Barbera won't figure in the top 10, unless he can latch onto the back of another fast rider again.... I sometimes tire of riders complaining of towing others around (Stoner is the most vocal of course) but at the top level of racing this kind of behaviour is ridiculous and needs to be stamped on by the FIM/Dorna before somebody gets hurt  Maybe a time penalty should be awared to riders who cruise around during FP/Quali just looking for a fast tow for a time, or alternativley send each rider out for a 'superpole' lap on his own for a qualifying time. BTW....well done Rossi & crew I'll bet Lorenzo wasn't nearly as happy to be behind his old adversary as he tried to make out in the press interviews Moto2 was again close and looks like being THE class to watch again in 2011 (especially with 3 British riders involved of course!). Scott Redding showed his class yesterday and looks like being our best shot at the title this year, while Bradley Smith and Kev McLochlan need to use 2011 as a learning year in the class and just try to stay out of trouble. Surprise rider to me in Moto2 is Kenan Sofuoglu. He came in for a couple of wildcard rides last year and amazingly quick straight away, but now seems to have lost all motivation since the death of his father. I hope he can get back in the groove quickly because he is an exciting rider to watch and should be good in this class. (Message edited by trojan on March 18, 2011) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
Good job by Rossi. I think he has chances for a top 3. Rossi,Spies and Stoner used hard tires. Lorenzo and Pedrosa used soft tires. Stoner was an another level than the rest in FP1. His performance was like "Philip Island". | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
I've been reading about the new Honda 'secret' gearbox and it seems to be one of the main reasons for their domination of testing so far. Not exactly sure how it works but it appears to be so instantaneous that it doesn't upset the bike even in mid corner gear changes. People who have heard it say that it sounds almost like an auto box, it is that smooth. Dual clutch gearboxes (as fitted to the new Honda VFR) are baned in MotoGP so they can't use that. Most people 'in the know' believe the new Honda race gearbox is a developed version of the Xtrac MotoGP gearbox but nobody has got close enough to inspect it yet! Yamaha are allegedly already working on their version of the 'quick change' 'box and I'm sure the others won't be far behind. Honda need to make sure they can take advantage of their extra speed and take maximum points at the first few races, as the otehrs will catch up once the series gets to the Euro rounds I think. Interestingly, HRC bosses say that they have enough spares to keep them going for the first 2 races only, so unless they can get production going in Japan soon this may become another X factor in the the championship this year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
About that, Matt: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-burg ess-honda-gearbox-not-rocket-science/ | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
I don't think thetechnolgy is that much further forward, but if it makes teh rider more comfortable and his life easier then that alone must be worth a few fractions per lap. As Stoner says..."For me it is no faster just smoother and doesn't make the bike as unsettled". If the bike is less unsettled in a corner then the rider can concentrate more on riding than trying to control the pitching of the bike (and we are talking hundreths of a second here of course!). Much as Burgess is down playing the effect of the new gearbox, you can bet they are all working on something similar if they think it can be even the slightest advantage! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Stoner and Pedrosa are still leading, but Elbowz is getting ominously faster. And look who was faster than both Rossi and Hayden! http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=43718 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Crap. It's looking like the early part of the season (at least) is going to be a Honda Cakewalk: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/motogp+report+q atar+gp+FP3+0 Best I can hope for is that Pedrosa and Stoner push each other into crashing (unhurt, of course) and Dovi mixing it up with Spies and Lorenzo to the finish... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
As soon as it was announced that Stoner was going to Honda I knew this would be the norm for Honda this season at least. I hope they don't run away with the season could get quite boring. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Stoner/Pedrosa/Lorenzo on the first row. Spies lines up on the second row in fifth. Cal Crutchlow qualifies AHEAD of Valentino Rossi and his team mate Colin Edwards despite his hand injury. Color me impressed, Matt! I'm still hoping Pedrosa and Stoner take each other out and Lorenzo and Spies get to battle for first place... for the third position I'd like Rossi or Hayden. That's wishful thinking though. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Crusty |
I like your wishful thinking. Actually, so long as the rat weasel takes himself out, I'll be happy. Hector Barbera has the fastest Duck, though.He stands a better chance of being on the box than either Rossi or Nicky. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
Well that race sure made me appreciate the close racing we have here. For all the problems with the Daytona 200 at least it wasn't a snooze fest. First time I have fallen asleep watching motorcycle racing. Had to watch the second part again when I woke up. I sure hope things can get competitive and I am not talking about showing 8th and 9th duking it out. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gaesati |
Well, it appears that neither Trojan nor Crusty got their wish. Maybe it would be more interesting if Stoner, Pedrosa and Lorenzo slowed down.... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
Comparing this year's Daytona200 with motoGP is a joke. The race was great . Hard fights for every position. It is sad that people wish for riders to crash , so that their favourites ones have a good result................. I was impressed by Lorenzo !!!! He fought hard !!! Also Crutchlow showed some fighting spirit. Spies once again had the pace for 3rd , but he had a terrible start. When will he improve on that ???? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
After the build up and expectation all winter I'm afraid I found all 3 races quite anti-climactic yet again 125, Moto2 and MotoGP races were all dominated from first practice by one rider, and they all went on to win by miles which just isn't what I want to see, regardless of who it is that wins. The MotoGP race looks very sparse at the start with only 16 bikes, and was even more depleted within just a few short laps with just 13 bikes circulating for most of the race. Once Stoner broke away it all had an inevitability about it so I couldn't get excited even during the very few exciting parts involving Lorenzo/Pedrosa and Simoncelli/Dovi. The 'new boys' failed to live up to expectations with Simoncelli 5th and Spies 6th, and Rossi plainly struggled throughout the 2nd half of the race so was never in contention really. Crutchlow showed real guts and determination so I was sorry he couldn't get into the top ten, especially after a great qualifying. He complained (as did almost everyone who encountered him) about trying to pass Hector Barbera and got held up for a long time behind the 'mobile chicane'. The problem was that his Ducati was a missile in a straight line (fastest bike all weekend) but Barbera can only string a fast lap together when following a faster rider, so is inconsistent at best when racing Lorenzo was lucky to have got 2nd place after Pedrosa started suffering from his nerve damage inflicted by his injury last year, otherwise I think he would have been a distant 3rd instead of a fortuitous 2nd. Qatar is a strange track so we can't take too much from this race other than that Honda have their act well and truly together. With the 1km long straight and only one line around most of the track it is unlike any other on the calndar, so I hpe that we can get some closer and more exciting races as the season progresses, but sadly I think it won't happen I was actually looking forward to the Moto2 race more than the 'main event', but that turned into a runaway victory for young Bradl and the Kalex. Impressive as that was, it kind of took the shine off the battle for second place and once Scott Redding adn Marc Marquez binned it I couldn't be bothered to follow it to the end Roll on Jerez........... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
As far as I can remember, Pedrosa was always weak in the final 5 laps of the race, even before he got the shoulder injury. I think Pedrosa thought that his pace in the first half of the race and his performance in the last split of the track, was enough to bring him victory. As soon as Stoner made his final move halfway the race, Pedrosa seemed to loose it , and lost 1.2sec in 1 lap. That was before his *supposed* injury come up. Then Lorenzo gave him the final blow. I think Pedrosa faces a lot of pressure from Puig to outrun Stoner , and it is not good for his psycology. He is under very big pressure and for no reason really. His injury ??? It is strange that after hundrends of laps without any problem , he actes like his injury almost prevented him from riding , while in fact he lost 0.2s per lap to Lorenzo in the final 2 laps. And that is what is happening in his entire motoGP carrer up to now. It seems that the title will be between Stoner and Lorenzo , the best riders in the world at the moment. Rossi made some very interesting comments after the race,about what Ducati should do. (Message edited by vagelis46 on March 21, 2011) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
I certainly don't think that Pedrosa was 'making up' or over playing his injury, as by all accounts he was green in the face and very sick in the garage afterwards becaue of the pain. Whether he could have beaten Lorenzo or Stoner we'll never know, butI thought he would have been closer to Stoner than he was, and you could see him visibly slow from mid distance. They really need to get more bikes on the grid though, and not just bikes that make up the numbers at the back of the field. Unless they get some more good entries up at the front to boost numbers and competiton I can see the MotoGP series losing a lot of spectators soon..........(me included). Moto2, World Superbikes and WSS are better to watch already, so it is only a fw personalities that keep the crowds at MotoGP. If Rossi were to retire I think they woul dbe in deep sh*t! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
If you thought that MotoGP race was good then you must love Formula 1. Good racing to me is competitors duking it out for the lead or podium positions. So I guess the half a lap or so of Lorenzo passing an ailing Pedrosa was decent but the rest was plain boring. I do not wish any of them to crash but I sure hope it gets more competitive at Jerez. |
