| Author | Message | ||
     Curve_carver |
Okay.... I'm a little confused after reading the article again. I though the new rs would be able to compete with the liter bikes right off the showrroom floor. We wall know the 1125rr is down on power compared to any of the 1000cc bikes. This statement isn't quite making any sense? The simple addition of a race pipe and ECU boosts output substantially higher, to something close to that of the 1125RR which Geoff May rode in 2010 AMA Superbike races. That’s not too surprising as the internal parts are so similar; the amazing thing is that Erik Buell Racing was able to get this engine, in this tune, through noise and emission tests. Credit that in part to a very refined fuel map, and two very expensive catalysts in the big main muffler. So the rs isn't as strong as the 1125rr with a pipe and an ecm? Whoooo this doesn't make sense for any consumer to buy? Buy a 40,000 bike that can't compete hp wise against a 1000cc bike? | ||
| Trbulnt |
Curve_Carver....The 1190 makes the same power as the 1125rr while running a stock muffler and all emissions components plus it still meets the EPA noise regulations. Now imagine that same 1190 completely uncorked in full race tune and trim. The 1190 is also lighter than the 1125rr so it will make better advantage of the power available. | ||
| Curve_carver |
I don't think you read the article right? It is something close to the 1125rr when a race muffler and ecm is applied. I'm shocked at what is being built. I'm not being negative folks. Im being realistic. So you would have to buy a exhaust and ecm which would throw this bike over 48,000 and the 1190rr is 44,000. This is showing me that a ebr bike will never be made to ama specs and streetable like other manufactures simply because of the engine design.  (Message edited by Curve_carver on February 21, 2011) | ||
| Ratsmc |
Actually, I think it is saying that the 1190 needs an ECU and race pipe to get close to the 1125rr. However, what is missing here is that the 1125rr is a pure racebike and has been tuned to the limits of the rules. An 1190 tuned similarly will produce more power - but that requires more than just an ECU and pipe. The 1125rr can't just be trotted out on the street while the 1190rs can. | ||
| D_adams |
Erik Buell Racing hasn't published any numbers yet, so at this point, it's just simply wild speculation on everyone's part. Just my take on it, the 1125RR had 175 hp at the wheel in full race trim. The 1190 will probably produce that in it's "stock, EPA compliant" trim, but with the addition of a race ecm and removal of the stock pipe, it will make even more, ie; 185-195 hp or right up there with the IL4 literbikes. It WILL be ready to compete on the international stage, that I have faith in, even though it's WAY out of my price range. For the racer that's ready to go and run at that level of competition, $40k for a turnkey solution is actually a pretty good deal, especially if you look at all the components that come on the bike in it's stock trim. | ||
| D_adams |
Personally, I think you're just stirring the pot just to do it, but that's just me. You did the same thing last summer about the exhaust shootout, you did it a few weeks ago about the hong kong levers. Now it's the 1190. Maybe you ought to take a break from the keyboard for a while? This BS gets old after a while, let EB have his moment to shine. The $40k 1190 as built will probably be a turnkey, near race ready bike. Try buying one of your IL4's in race trim for that brand new. I seriously doubt it will happen, I've seen price quotes of $50k+ just for a USED bike from the previous race season, much less trying to get one that's brand new. | ||
| Curve_carver |
Listen to what your saying. Yes it's a turn key streetable racebike but there are so many other bikes you can buy for 15k that do the same and you have 30,000 dollars to build it up. Look at the bmw 1000rr. It doesnt make any sense to buy a rs especially when it can't compete as the 1125rr couldn't. Standings dont lie. Geoff is a great rider and I know if the bike was capable he would shine. You keep telling yourself everything will be okay. It is all clear now. the 1190 rs is streetable with its lower compression higher cc displacement. But yet it will fall short of the 1125rr hp rating and thats decked out? the 1125rr is rated what 170rwhp. So say the 1190rs is 150 stock and 165 with the ebr addons. Any 1000cc jap bike walk circles around it. good luck to the racer slash sucker that'll buy that bike. | ||
| D_adams |
Pure speculation and rubbish. Just proves my point earlier, you're just here to stir the pot. | ||
| Court |
Paul: You said:
Tell me why you are shocked and, for my benefit, give me a sense of your qualifications? Are you aware that the similarly configured version of Ducati's "street legal race bike" is over $75,000? If you are shocked about the Buell you need to be sitting down for the Ducati. And . . . I need to tell you that the MV Agusta is well over $100,000. Even the most casual of guessers . . right here on good old Badweb . . were guessing the expected price of the race ready Buell at "$40,000 of better". Did those shock you when they were released? I'm not certain that you are realistic as in many threads you seem to lack facts. Anyway . . . give me the skinny and tell me why you are shocked. The cool part is that I know (and you can easily do the math) what it costs to build these and . . . . . . . shhhhhh . . $40,000 is a killer deal, | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL. Thanks for your expert commentary Curver Carver. Maybe after abject failure this year all these rookies at Erik Buell Racing that designed and built the 1190 RS will come seek your wisdom on how it should be done. Thanks for being the voice of reason. Without you we would all be thinking that a 180HP 380 pound wet VTwin with premium parts and suspension would be a competitive bike in AMA superbike. Where were you two years ago? Somebody should have shut down that unproven kid (Eslick) and overweight underpowered 1125R. We lacked your wisdom and insight and look how that turned out. Oh wait.  | ||
| D_adams |
I'm pretty sure he's been here all along, but using a different name. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Yes it's a turn key streetable racebike but there are so many other bikes you can buy for 15k that do the same name one please?? | ||
| T_man |
I can't wait until we get a test done by the bike mags. I have no doubt, no fear whatsoever in the capability of this new unfettered Erik Buell bike. I suspect there will be many MANY nay-sayers eating thier words. One last thing; Horsepower isn't everything fellas - anyone whose spent considerable time on a racetrack can attest to that. | ||
| Court |
>>>>- anyone whose spent considerable time on a racetrack can attest to that. I'll bet you can get Danny Eslick to back you up as well. What bike holds the lap record at Willow Springs? . . for some reason I was thinking it was Shawn Higbee on a Buell. He may have missed the memo. | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
>>>>> What bike holds the lap record at Willow Springs? . . for some reason I was thinking it was Shawn Higbee on a Buell. Is that just the BOTT class, Court? Or overall? BOTT Heavyweight Shawn Higbee 01:21.622 March 2010 http://my.wsmcracing.com/ul/file/Newsletters/WSMCN ews1110.pdf (page 13) | ||
| Ratsmc |
Curvecarver, where did you come up with that 150hp number? The CW article quoted 170hp - that passes EPA. Pull off that EPA nonsense and you you have to expect a minimum 180hp. On a bike that is lighter than its competitors. And cheaper. It really seems like you are looking for a way to be unhappy about this bike, even going so far as to ignore published fact. | ||
| Buell101 |
"It WILL be ready to compete on the international stage".... "For the racer that's ready to go and run at that level of competition" ahh.. I hope you don't mean WSB and WILL is with in 3-4 years to compete at that level... the WSB spec Aprila is throwing down close to moto GP RWHP 220hp... I'm excited as anyone but let the 1190 dominate AMA 1st and delvelope more. To further prove the 1190RS is a steal, Aprila has a Max Biaggi replica for $63,400 http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_lo oks_articles/archive/aprilia_rsv4_biaggi_replica_- _first_look | ||
| Ratsmc |
It is going to take a hell of a lot of work to get a V-Twin to be competitive at WSBK level. Ducati has decade of experience at it and they are having trouble keeping up (ignoring of course yesterday's Phillip Island test results  ) | ||
| Court |
>>>>It is going to take a hell of a lot of work to get a V-Twin to be competitive at WSBK level. Yes it will. When I met Erik he had about $1,200, an unheated garage and he'd just quit a perfectly good job with Harley-Davidson. He's got a really good track record.  | ||
| Court |
Ferrari 1:22.3 Ducati 1:19.3 Buell 1125R 1:14.072 (Shawn Higbee) http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=4062&post=1958236#POST1958236 | ||
| Ratsmc |
lol, Court, I don't question the capabilities at all, just the physical limitations of the V-Twin design. To keep piston speeds within safe limits, the cylinders have to be more and more radically oversquare. Ducati has nearly hit th e limits of their current motor and are building a new one that is insanely oversquare. I think that at some point in the future, even Ducati - whose brand is completely tied to the V-Twin may have to seriously consider a V4. I have no doubt that Erik and team are capable of keeping up with much larger factories. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
also the 1190 uses a thicker base gasket than the 1125 to lower compression ratio inorder to run PUMP gas...with the replacement of a base gasket and the addition of a race exhaust/ecm and ama spec gas the 1190 will be the EXACT same as the 1190rr that the pegasus race team used...now with straight up race gas it has been recorded to make around 200hp AT THE WHEEL.. of course this is built to be a reliable STREET SUPERBIKE so it has to use pump gas and pass all the emission and noise requirement, thus lower hp... but at around 360lbs WET (speculation because it is SUB 400lbs wet, and they sell a 20lbs. ballast kit to make it up to the 380lbs weight requirement for twins in the AMA) so regardless of how much power it makes this should be the LIGHTEST production STREET SUPERBIKE EVER MADE!! the power to weight ratio on this thing is knocking on the doorstep of 2:1! i mean think of it this way a comparable 1198r ducati weighs in at 364lbs. DRY....thats what the 1190rs is WET (give or take a few pounds) and they both have comparable horse power and trq. the 1190rs isnt just opening up a new door in sportbikes...its KICKING THAT %^&*( DOOR DOWN AND BURNING IT!!  FTW!!! Jake | ||
| Curve_carver |
They have a dyno right in shop at ebr why didn't they post up the ratings? Maybe I'm expecting too much to early. Court I understand that there's bikes that cost 100,000.00 but who is gonna buy one. Seriously | ||
| Curve_carver |
Time will tell. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
becuase they havent been passed by EPA yet..therefore the tuning process is not complete...think about it why would you post up #'s that arent 100% approved yet??? Jake | ||
| Ratsmc |
I just figured out what is going on here. The CW article originally state 170hp but has been edited to just read "in the same range as a Ducati 1198". | ||
| Boltrider |
Dude, seriously, you need to relax. You sound like one of those guys looking for an excuse to rag on the bike, like you had a preconceived idea in your head and were waiting to use it. (Message edited by boltrider on February 22, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
curve_carver - xerox and ducati | ||
| Fresnobuell |
CC: Sell your Buell, buy the Beemer. Then you can finally be happy. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
and then when you wanna stomp on an 1190rs....just remember that whole roughly 80 POUND weight difference and within 10ish horsepower...fogettaboutit ...and when you got a 12k$ suspension on it and around a grand total of 20-30lbs. of unsprung weight in total. Jake |
