| Author | Message | ||
     Icarus1125rs |
Got a mate with some charging issues at low RPM. He has had the harness mod done AND the stator replaced. Less the 2000 miles on the new stator. We have the Buell electrical manual. We have checked the stator outputs and resistances - all ok. Compared the existing stator static measurements with a brand new spare from Erik Buell Racing. Checked and tested the battery with a load tester - battery within specs. Replaced the battery with a new one, just in case. Bike starts fine, runs @ 14.2 volts for a while and slowly after a 15-20 minute ride gets slowly to 11.8 volts in traffic. On RPMs above 3000 battery regains charge. Relay measurements and operation look fine - no high resistance and the regulator earth mod has been done. Does anyone know what the conditions are that controls J2 10B CAV21 on the ECM which in turn controls the earth of the harness relay for the third leg? We have two bikes and they behave completely differently. Our thinking is the third leg is not kicking in due to some condition not being met ie. we have a symptom masked by another problem. Any help is appreciated. | ||
| Redbat |
Did you have the dealer flash the ECM to match the harness upgrade? It's my understanding it won't work properly without it. | ||
| Jules |
I know it's early (for me it is) but I can't see that what you are describing is an issue as such... Surely that indicates the cct is working as expected with the harness mod done? Once up to temperature the relay cuts in below 3K to switch off the third leg, so voltages drop. Above 3K it's back on so the voltages rise.. What's the issue? | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1 Jules. My read is, the bike is behaving exactly the way its supposed to behave. Again...(sigh...)the harness update was NOT to fix a low voltage issue. The harness upgrade was to help keep stators from OVERHEATING. It will TURN OFF one leg of the output based on parameters (rpm, temperature, system draw) to help keep the stator temperature down. As the draw requires or other parameters are met (i.e. higher RPM, which carries higher fluid circulation rates), the third leg will turn back on. | ||
| Gemini |
engine temp above 50F, batt voltage above 12.2 volts and rpms above 2000 turns the relay off(disables third leg). will stay open until rpms go above 4000 or below 2000. at idle, you always have all three legs of charging. in a proper working system, your voltage will drop at idle because of low stator output due to low rpms. this is even more pronounced when the engine temp gets above 170 due to cooling fans being turned on. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
When (I'm not going to believe in IF) my stator fails, I'm going to have it rewound, and leave the stock charging scheme in place. It charges fine and lots in it's original configuration, and like Ratbuell said, I want fix for overheating, not a half-assed patch that causes more problems than it fixes. R | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
wow thats weird mine started doing the exact same thing saturday. had entire charging system replaced in oct. about 2000 mi. ago, mine melted the entire charging harness. i don't believe its the harness doing its job, if it is why hasnt it shown up before in warmer temps? it's obvious hd doesnt care anymore so im fixing it myself even with a year worth of warranty left. this taking it to the the dealer an hour and a half away every few months for the same concern aint gonna cut it. theres a reason ford uses the theory FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
"theres a reason ford uses the theory FIX IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME." Yeah, like the way they fixed that pitiful excuse of a diesel engine they had on the f250's and f-350's(6.0L and 6.4L). It blew turbos like the cr's go through stators and you had to lift the body of the truck off to touch the engine. | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
you can actually thank international for those boat anchors. and they blew egr coolers, head gaskets, oil coolers, downed injectors, and threw valvetrain pieces. it all has to do with emissions equipment on the older style engines. 6.0 was a good running engine if you deleted egr, studded the heads run open exhaust and a tune. 6.4 was a total lump. its actually a stroked 6.0. thats the reason ford built the 6.7 in house. | ||
| Boogman |
Thanks for posting the question Icarus1125rs I got the DMM Fluke 73 and re did the tests .. Seems that I need to troubleshoot the wiring harness .. looked at the service bulletin for the harness install .. the 12V relay test failed pnly getting 0.3V .. next was to check 12V at the Active Intake Solenoid connect .. and no 12V either .. Hence if the relay doesnt have 12V .. the third leg is always off .. Will look at it again today ... Its not running fine as it used to .. | ||
| Gemini |
looks like the power for the intake solenoid is from the same feed as the injectors and coils. did you check for voltage for the relay while the engine was running? | ||
| Boogman |
Will Check Gemini .. .but when the harness was installed by the dealer .. they got it wrong .. and I determined that the Black ECM Wire was in the wrong pin on the ECM .. Im sure i checked the relay without the bike running and got 12V .. but will check .. | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
thats your vpwr circuit it should be 12v with the key on engine on or off, and ecm controls all the grounds. and if you start the bike with multimeter on it you should be able to unplug and plug the relay back in and see a fluctuation in voltage showing that it's energizing the relay and charging through it or plug a test lamp into it. using a 12v headlamp is a good way to load test circuits, a multimeter can show 12v and the circuit still might not carry a load. | ||
| Gemini |
ok. your posts seem a little over the place. putting the pin in the wrong location would be a big red flag. turbowolf is right on his methods. after rethinking my previous statement, you should have the 12 volts on the active intake connection with the key on engine off. that is a good way to make sure the circuit and ecm are correct. when you cycle the ignition, with the engine off, you will feel the relay cycle on/off in direct relation to the ignition voltage. | ||
| Ratbuell |
not a half-assed patch that causes more problems than it fixes. Hm. My 09 CR, with the harness installed at 300 miles, charges just fine and I haven't had a lick of trouble out of it. Sure my V will drop if I'm stuck in traffic and it starts to heat up, but either I downshift and bring the revs up...or the light changes and I bring the revs up...and it charges fine again. Even after six weeks in the cold, with no tender on it (my bad, forgot to rotate it from the other bikes for a while)...it cranked slow, but did kick over and the battery light went out after only a few seconds. Took 'er on a nice, hour-long, abusive ride - she likes it that way! - and all is right in the garage again  | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
If it's ones primary, daily transportation, and discharges to the point of not starting after 3 or 4 starts in a short period of time, it's a problem. With it back to the stock charging scheme, no issues. Period. Until of course the stator melts, then the aforementioned rewind. The bike should start and run, and charge, short hops, long haul, traffic, fans, hot, cold, whatever. It should start every time I hit the friggin button. And mine does now, and didn't with the bypass. Glad you're happy w/ yours. R | ||
| Boogman |
thanks carbon .. my thoughts exactly .. The relay isnt getting the 12v . There is no 12v at the active intake solenoid connector .. hence as gemini suggests .. when the ignition is cycled .. there is no click at the relay .. i powered 12 V to the relay and it does function .. so now need to find where the break in the wire is .. and furthermore where it goes to .. if anything else is broken .. will keep you guys update .. thanks for the advise .. | ||
| Sparky |
Boogman, your post says
Does your bike have the wire going to the correct pin in the ECM now? | ||
| Boogman |
yep it does ... about a year ago maybe a bit less ..dealer installed the harness seemed 3 mins after leaving not charging as im sitting at lights ... hummm took bike back the next day .. they looked over it ... all good ... wtf went home ... and found that the black wire was in the incorrect ecm pin .. changed it all good ... consistantly mid 13s to 14.2 .. By the way .. 2 weeks post the harness upgrade .. stator failed .. so they replaced it .. forgot to look at the V reading for most of the year .. then the hot weather arrived .. stuck in traffic .. as it is my Daily ride .. batt light came on ... max 12.7 at temp at revs .. ie > 4000 at idle ... gets down to the low 11s .. hence ive been monitoring it .. thought might be battery .. relplaced .. same result .. now checking wiring .. as relay isnt getting the 12V needed | ||
| Gemini |
i haven't had mine charge, any lower than about 11.9-12.0 volts on the hot days, stuck in traffic at idle. one of the things i did is play with the 3-d idle(engine rpm=engine temp vs batt voltage). when voltage is high and engnine is warm, nice low idle (1300) and goes up as the voltage gets "too low"(1800 rpm).i did this becuase i got pissed off one day becuase a bad slip of the clutch control resulted in a stalled motor is hevy traffic and the bike would not turn over. voltage was too low. gave me a comfort level. haven't stalled it out again in those same conditions. i did have a voltage regulator replaced right before christmas. had an issue on very cold days, i could ride at hwy speeds with coolant below 165 due to cold weather and the voltage would climb as high as 18 volts. the cluster would typically go black at 15 volts. would have to let the bike idle for about 45 seconds or so to restore everything then it was fine for the rest of the trip |
