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Dannybuell
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 09:52 am: | 
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Bwbhighspl - your grasp of business principles is fine. The discussion appears to be more of a philosophical social issue.
The flaw in America's free trade model is that our borders are open and their borders are not. Export the factories and tell those affected to go back to school and get smarter. This 'get more education' line has been going on for twenty years and we as a society are no closer to increased prosperity. If you are at or below average no amount of education will help, you will be left behind.
It does not take a Masters degree to realize our government has taken its focus off of the common American. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 02:48 pm: |
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Steve,
>>> I'll draw the line in the sand where I see fit. It's my dollar voting, and I'm convinced that if more of us actively made the choice to support EACH OTHER with these sorts of "keep it here if you can" decisions, the whole country would be in a far better situation economically.
A'MEN to that!!!
Splr,
>>> If you want to buy American, whatever that even means anymore, as you say, that's your choice. But you can't make the argument that if you don't then you're putting an American company out of business. In a capitalist society, it doesn't work that way.
First of all, society isn't capitalist. Society is free or not. Economic principles are free or not. So let's call it free enterprise. In that sense, it actually does make sense or. Free enterprise and the values assigned to products within a free enterprise system are not based on price or quality or value alone. Being knowledgeable of product's origin and what that may mean is a 100% valid consideration in free enterprise.
>>> Attempting to artificially inflate A's sales through a set of morals/beliefs/principles won't sustain Company A. In fact, that's a pretty crappy business model.
There is nothing artificial about pointing to product origins, calling into account morals, or patriotism. That is all very real and very important to many people, Steve and me for example.
What is artificial is the deflation of the Chinese currency. How does your thinking view that shady approach to gaining more sales, other than conveniently ignoring it I mean? 
Danny,
>>> your grasp of business principles is fine. The discussion appears to be more of a philosophical social issue.
See above.
>>> It does not take a Masters degree to realize our government has taken its focus off of the common American.
I wish that were true. They've done nothing but legislate in the name of the common American for decades now, much to our chagrin. Their focus needs to be limited to that which the constitution allows, and that only. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 02:49 pm: |
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It's nice to see Chrysler recognize the free enterprise value of patriotism. I hope they and other American designers and manufacturers can do more to make their point. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 02:50 pm: |
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Would we rather pay higher taxes or higher prices for greater American content in goods?
I'd rather pay more for the more American content in goods.
The less of our money that congress is allowed to take, the better.
(Message edited by blake on February 07, 2011) |
Drawkward
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 03:05 pm: |
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Natt:
quote:Does it seem like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here? Hope not.
Yes, it does seem that way.
You are rationalizing your "bad behavior".
I'm sick of arguing this issue/seeing the arguments on this issue.
The levers in question were not ASV knock-offs, they were Pazzo knock-offs (Pazzo is Canadian), at least the ones I have on my bike are. And they're 100 dollars cheaper than pazzos and are just as good. That 100 dollars has allowed me to buy other things I needed. Like some drinking glasses from Wal0Mart with Made in the USA stamped on the bottom of them, a "Support Local Racers" shirt from my local motorcycle forum and some decals and whatnot from a local decal maker related to the same forum. The money I SAVE from buying foreign helps me to spread my money around even more. This is not a one sided issue like you and many others would like to believe.
(Message edited by drawkward on February 07, 2011) |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 03:22 pm: |
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Blake - Yes and true campaign finance reform so 'for the people' becomes truth rather than an elementary school fairy tale.. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 04:22 pm: |
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Let those Americans who wish donate as they wish. Pretty simple. Freedom for all or not. I choose freedom for all. |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 07:23 pm: |
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draw - "The levers in question were not ASV knock-offs, they were Pazzo knock-offs (Pazzo is Canadian), at least the ones I have on my bike are. And they're 100 dollars cheaper than pazzos and are just as good. That 100 dollars has allowed me to buy other things I needed. Like some drinking glasses from Wal0Mart with Made in the USA stamped on the bottom of them, a "Support Local Racers" shirt from my local motorcycle forum and some decals and whatnot from a local decal maker related to the same forum. The money I SAVE from buying foreign helps me to spread my money around even more. This is not a one sided issue like you and many others would like to believe. "
I agree with this |
Father_of_an_era
| | Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 10:29 pm: |
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I do my best to buy American however, it is difficult to do that do to a lack of options for certain things. Also, buying from a foreign company doesn't mean that all of the proceeds are sent to that foreign country of origin. There are plenty of "foreign" companies that have rooted themselves within the US and those proceeds are therefore largely kept within the US. That being said, we have all made the choice to buy a product that is in part made of foreign materials and we have all supported our American brethren buy purchasing that same product. If buying a foreign extrovert can then allow us to spend our remaining/saved monies on domestic products, then what is the harm? I am in agreement with all of you. We should purchase products that are made by Americans in America but we also have the ability and/or choice to aid corporate America buy purchasing products that are made in the domestic as well as the foreign realm. Plus, we do have the freedom to do as we please with our finances. You all make valid points. Though, I can't stand Wal-mart and do not buy anything from them if I can help it,(my view is based on my dislike for their business practices)I support any of you who do choose to shop there as I support any of you who choose to purchase a less expensive part from a foreign company even though I do my best to shop American. That is the right of every American (thanks to the men and women of our military) and I support our freedoms. Its your choice! |
Bwbhighspl
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 07:39 am: |
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>>> Attempting to artificially inflate A's sales through a set of morals/beliefs/principles won't sustain Company A. In fact, that's a pretty crappy business model.
There is nothing artificial about pointing to product origins, calling into account morals, or patriotism.
It's important to some, but not all. And the "some" need to outnumber the "all". My point is that it doesn't make since for a corporation to *hope* people see things their way. Best saying ever: You can hope in one hand and shit in the other, and see which gets filled quicker.
The discussion appears to be more of a philosophical social issue.
Agree. But you can't pretend that buying American saves jobs. Corporations can't afford it. I'm just focusing on that part of this. If you want to buy American to support America, regardless of price, fine. But if you think that purchasing a product that is several times more expensive than the competitor's will save jobs, well, I'm popping that little bubble.
Anyone have an IRA? Mutual funds? You invested in anything foreign? Do you even know? If you really want to support American, on a grand scale, invest only in America. Vote with your money, but not with $100, vote with your nest egg. $100,000. $400,000. Whatever you have. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 11:04 am: |
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Governments control many things and ignore many more. A level playing field where American companies can compete without having to send their facilities overseas would be a good start. How? create mirror policies. If they tax our goods x% we shall do the same for their goods...
Fair is Fair, no one is expected to come out alive going into a gunfight with a knife. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 12:11 pm: |
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Splr,
>>> It's important to some, but not all. And the "some" need to outnumber the "all".
Huh? Why? How is that even possible, that some could ever outnumber all? Drugs are bad for you. If you are contending that it's important that whatever marketing tactic is used be effective enough to garner or maintain a business-sustaining portion of the market, okay, I can agree. That portion of the market is usually far from a majority let alone "all." A good market share might be just 5% in some cases, and that is 5% of the market, not of "all"; it might be less than 1% of all people.
>>> My point is that it doesn't make since (sic) for a corporation to *hope* people see things their way. Best saying ever: You can hope in one hand and shit in the other, and see which gets filled quicker.
What do you suppose marketing is all about? Marketing doesn't make sense? Don't tell Coke or Pepsi or any of the multi-million dollar ad agencies.
Don't you just hate it when someone ignores most of what is stated in order to construct a straw man of one particular statement?
There is nothing artificial about pointing to product origins, calling into account morals, or patriotism. That is all very real and very important to many (not all) people, Steve and me for example.
What is artificial is the deflation of the Chinese currency. How does your thinking view that shady approach to gaining more sales, other than conveniently ignoring it I mean?
At some point patriotism becomes an important issue, helping to fund a communist adversary via purchases of their export goods which are knock-offs of others for instance. First the issue of it being a knock-off: Supporting that is supporting theft in my view. How is it not?
On patriotic duty, at what point it becomes an issue is up for each to decide. It's a VERY important issue for me now. There are some, I'm sure, who would purchase from the taliban or al qaeda if it would save them a buck. That's just not me.
(Message edited by blake on February 08, 2011) |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 12:17 pm: |
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>>> Governments control many things and ignore many more.
Danny writes about much and ignores much more.
Do I sound impressive or what!? 
 |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 12:32 pm: |
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Blake - Governments responsibility is defined in the US Constitution.
Article. I. Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Allowing the migration of jobs away from our shores works against the 'general welfare of the United States'...
Blake you are getting better with your ad hominem, adding humor raises your game up a bit.
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Drawkward
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 12:48 pm: |
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Blake: Is it OK for someone else to buy Chinese goods, and then you buy those goods (regardless of how they are put together) from them at a mark up?
Sell your Buell if that's not OK to do in your opinion. You and everyone else bitching about buying these levers is a hypocrite. Plain and simple. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 01:04 pm: |
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Drawkward - Yes! I'm afraid we are all hipocrytes to one degree or another! |
Kicka666
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 04:01 pm: |
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Guys, Guys I put this post up as a gag @ the end of the day we all love our Buells. I could'nt care less if parts are sourced from China, Austria, Mexico & Germany ect.
I am a proud Aussie but our stores are full of cheap imports & supermarkets full of food from other countries it is so hard to avoid unless you read every package. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 04:19 pm: |
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Danny >>> (Our) Government's responsibility is defined in the US Constitution. ...
I like to state the obvious in order to sound important.
Seriously though, not sure what your point is or why anyone would oppose it. You win! 
For the record, I like you Danny. You just irritate me sometimes, so I lash out with cutting humor. You should of course take it very personally.
I prefer brutally frank reality and factual debate.
Jonathan (DrAwk),
>>> Blake: Is it OK for someone else to buy Chinese goods, and then you buy those goods (regardless of how they are put together) from them at a mark up?
Is it "okay"? It depends on the circumstances and what is important to you. Good point though. You seem confused as to my stance on the issue.
Again, what I said (note boldfaced portions)...
At some point patriotism becomes an important issue, helping to fund a communist adversary via purchases of their export goods which are knock-offs of others for instance. First there is the issue of it being a knock-off; supporting that is supporting theft in my view. How is it not?
Second, there is patriotic duty; at what point that becomes an issue is up for each to decide. It's a VERY important issue for me now. There are some, I'm sure, who would purchase from the taliban or al qaeda if it would save them a buck. That's just not me.
>>> Sell your Buell if that's not OK to do in your opinion. You and everyone else bitching about buying these levers is a hypocrite. Plain and simple.
If there were another comparable American sport bike that did not use any Chinese content, or if said content was a knock-off of another reputable product, then you might have a point. Neither scenario applies to Buell motorcycles, so you don't have a valid point.
With the levers, there are a number of non-Chinese alternatives and the Chinese version is a knock-off of a reputable brand.
Buy Chinese levers, support thieves in China! |
Curve_carver
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 05:49 pm: |
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THE WAR IS OVER
Gentlemen Gentlemen at ease. Wintry misery is at it's best I guess??
The guy I purchased the levers off of said there lost in the mail and he's refunding my money. I'll be buying some asv levers I guess. Is everyone okay now? I AM NOT GETTING THE HONG KONG SPECIALS!! |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 06:03 pm: |
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Good call. 
But islamism still threatens. Not sure which levers to buy to solve that. |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 06:52 pm: |
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Curve - so you werent OK with paying the extra a couple of weeks ago, but now you are?
Question - how do you guys feel about the knockoff Buell goods on ebay and other spots? Equally as angry with that?
Just thought of that due to the thread in the Quick Board with some buell kids clothing
while Buell cant benefit from any merchandise due to being out of business - its also someone else prospering off of the work that Buell did |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 07:02 pm: |
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Blake _ An Oyster needs an irritant to make a pearl. Who is the Oyster? |
Curve_carver
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 07:06 pm: |
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Hybrid, I was just curious I guess for 27.00. I had plenty doubts that the product would arrive .Cmon In all honesty levers for 27.00. In my case the delivery of the levers weren't time sensitive. I have a foot of snow outside and it's 10 degrees. I still don't believe a ride will be possible for another month or two.
The seller did offer to send me a new pair but I'm skeptical about getting my funds while I can. I have till the 15 to make a claim . I bought them on January 2. |
Bwbhighspl
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:17 pm: |
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Danny,
Here is your answer.
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Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 10:27 pm: |
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"An oyster needs an irritant to make a pearl"
I like that!   |
Drawkward
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 11:00 pm: |
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Curve, I got my levers in a week and a half from China. No issues. |
Rogue_biker
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 11:44 pm: |
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There should be a "Political Forum" in the 1125R section.
It should be called: HONG KONG Forum.
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Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 12:13 am: |
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Have an oyster. |
Curve_carver
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 09:24 pm: |
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I found out today the guy has been lying to me. The levers are still in hong kong. I think he is pulling an insurance scandal. |
Drawkward
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 11:08 am: |
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So you bought the levers from a guy here stateside?
I bought mine directly from someone in China. |
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