| Author | Message | ||||||||||||||||||||
     Elvis |
The BMW was not even UNVEILED to the public . . . ANTWHERE until May of 2009 and it didn't go on sale in Europe until much later in the year: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general- news/bmw-unveil-195bhp-s1000rr-road-bike-at-monza- wsb/6945.html By the time anyone even saw the street version, the race bike had already competed at Phillip Island, Losail, Valencia and Assen. http://www.worldsbk.com/en/season.html At the time, BMW tried to pull some BS and claim they had already made X number of bikes which were riding on the street. . . . problem is, those were prototypes that were destroyed and never offered to the public. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
The BMW was not even UNVEILED to the public . . . ANTWHERE until May of 2009 and it didn't go on sale in Europe until much later in the year: The fact is that the BMW bikes were built, homologated and ready for sale in 2009. If they weren't they would not be allowed to race, simple. It had been widely reported and even ridden by various publications/journalists a long time prior to going on sale so everyone knew it was happening and would be on sale shortly. There really is no comparison with BMW (Which has since gone on to be the best selling sports bike in Europe!) or any conspiracy theory going on to exclude Buell and other manufacturers from WSB. The rules are simple to understand and comply with, and BMW did just that. I am very much looking forward to seeing teh 1190 an would be as happy as anyone here to see it in WSB, but so far we ahev only seen a sneak shot from behind a curtain, so we are still some way off WSB I think. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Elvis |
The BMW may have been allowed to race, but it was far from simple. The rules clearly stated that bikes needed to be available to the public and in dealers before they could be homologated (as you said in your earlier post - "No street bike, no race.") but those bikes weren't available and the rules weren't followed. FIM should have made BMW wait until 2010 and BMW should have waited until 2010. Erik Buell Racing won't do what BMW did. They'll do things right. Any discussion about Erik Buell Racing racing WSBK is just silly at this point because even if they were allowed to, they wouldn't have the money, but they WOULD be allowed to race this year IF FIM gave them the same kind of allowance they gave BMW. I am willing to bet that Erik Buell Racing will have street bikes available in dealers earlier in the 2011 season than BMW had available in the 2009 season. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
>>>I am willing to bet that Erik Buell Racing will have street bikes available in dealers earlier in the 2011 season than BMW had available in the 2009 season. Good bet. That is an accurate statement. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, BUT I seem to recall BOTH BMW and Aprilia were allowed to race in 2009 because they both PROMISED to sell the required amount of bikes that year... not that they actually DID before the season started. The required number of bikes weren't sold by either manufacturer until the season was well under way. To me, this was the FIM "bending the rules" to get more European contestants involved as the Asian brands were already well represented. The only European brand competing was Ducati, and it has been well documented (here at least) how much the FIM has bent over backwards to accommodate them. When Ducati was informed they couldn't get the rules bent in their favor anymore, they took their ball and went home. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
I forgot about the late '09 Euro release. Point being BMW was allowed to race long before selling the first street bike. Point being FIM is happy to adjust rules to suit their interests. Race fans don't know of Buell? Really? Any new American machine in the WSBK series would be sure to garner significant interest here if not in Europe. Not the same as trying to get H-D to pay for a Buell race series in Britain. Just a simple matter of getting approved and entering a race. I agree, Erik Buell Racing are a ways from that, but when production is underway, the bike ought to be allowed if someone wants to race it. That's all. You say all are happy with current homologation rules. I doubt that Ducati likes them much. Triumph? MV? Aprilia? But your view is what my point is about, exactly, that current rules favor the large factories to the exclusion of all others. It's very snobbish really isn't it. In reality, though, more cowardly, afraid to face new competition. BMW, even with a lackluster showing in SBK competition, has proved the vulnerability of the market and the eagerness of the market for another choice. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Saxon59 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXwFa...eatures=rel ated This is a look at the way the Duc does SuperBike.}} | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Saxon59 |
Or not,sorry I'll have to look it up again. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Saxon59 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXwFacJdMf8&1 Try this one. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Impossible to not like a Doo catty. Desmo is too cool. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, BUT I seem to recall BOTH BMW and Aprilia were allowed to race in 2009 because they both PROMISED to sell the required amount of bikes that year... not that they actually DID before the season started. I don't know about Aprilia as I didn't take a lot of notice of the RSV4 when it was launched, but the BMW was already built and available for inspection to the FIM prior to being homologated. There is certainly no conspiracy theory to include more Euro manufacturers or exclude US/UK manufacturers either. BMW (and KTM) did everything that they were required to do to pass FIM homologation requirements. You say all are happy with current homologation rules. I doubt that Ducati likes them much. Triumph? MV? Aprilia? Triumph have never wanted to enter WSB although had to go through similar homologation procedures to get their 675 Daytona legal for WSS racing. MV already had their bike homologated for WSB but didn't race as they had no money. There was a privateer team trying to race an MV in BSB 2009 but it was hopeless and broke down almost every weekend if I remember correctly. Aprilia are more than happy with current rules, and certainly pleased when their cam drive 'cheat' was allowed last year. They aren't so happy now that it has been banned of course though  Aprilia have shown that a small manufacturer can come into WSB and win simply by building a MotoGP bike with lights, and that must be the model that other smaller manufacturers will have to follow if they are to be competitive. Whether Buell (or other 'boutique manufacturers' either want or can afford to do that is another matter of course. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
Aprilia that is part of the Piaggio group, is definately not a small manufacturer. Also the Aprilia's fuel system was illegal, which proves the point that FIM will bent the rules to make the racing more interesting by having different competitive manufacturers. So far the last 4 years , Honda, Ducati, Yamaha and Aprilia got the title in WSBK. A great series I think. I wish Haslam makes the BMW a winner in 2011 , which will make the series better. Also , if an American bike entered , more spectators would watch , and the series would be even greater. All the current sportbikes are basically racing bikes with lights. R6, 675 , 1198, ZX10, R1 , etc And these are the bikes consumers that buy sportbikes want to ride , regardless if they find them very uncomfortable or they have no clue to make them go fast. People are always greedy | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Also the Aprilia's fuel system was illegal, which proves the point that FIM will bent the rules to make the racing more interesting by having different competitive manufacturers. I thought that it was the cam drive system that was deemed to be 'semi illegal' rather than the fuel system? Aprilia that is part of the Piaggio group, is definately not a small manufacturer. In terms of large capacity 4 strokes Aprilia is a small player compared to the big Japanese companies. I'm pretty sure that their racing budget was a fraction of the Japanese factories (at least to start with). Once the 250 GP class was axed then Aprilia had a lot of race team emplyees available for their WSB effort I now find it ironic that, because Honda were so keen to axe the 250 class and shut down the Aprilia race dept, Aprilia now have the biggest race team in WSB instead Honda obvioulsy didn't see that coming did they  | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
MCN reported that they also used a high pressure fuel system that noone else used. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
>>>? I now find it ironic that, because Honda were so keen to axe the 250 class and shut down the Aprilia race dept, Aprilia now have the biggest race team in WSB instead : ) Honda obvioulsy didn't see that coming did they ; ) That is sweet. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Imonabuss |
Aprilia, a small manufacturer?! Whew, I don't know what proportions would generate that! Compared to Honda I guess. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Aprilia, a small manufacturer?! Whew, I don't know what proportions would generate that! I did say compared to the big jap factories. However in terms of bigbore sports bikes Aprilia are still relative beginners and small manufacturers. They have only built the RSV V-Twins previously so the new V4 is a radical departure for them and very new. To win the WSB championship in the second season is pretty good going and shows how big their commitment to racing at the top level is (helped of course by the wholesale migration of their 2590 race shop to the WSB team) | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
It was impressive, but not a small mfg, or new to racing. Pretty cool they did so well though. BMW is likely embarrassed by Aprilia's immediate success. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
I wouldn't feel too badly for BMW... have you noticed whose been DOMINATING SuperStock since the S1000RR was introduced? Things MIGHT change in that arena now with the new ZX-10... we'll see what happens. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Rocketsprink |
Ducati wins superpole. Sweet. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
And the rider is Trojan's favorite "old guy," too! And the "Pocket Rocket" put the Beemer on the front row. That bodes well for the season. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Amafan |
It is currently raining with no wind at Phillip Island, according to the WSBK website, and Sunday warmup starts in 3 hours . | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
Good races. Watching the power advantage of Aprilia vs Ducati , it seems that Biaggi is the favourite for the 2011 title. Haslam was truly amazing to get a 3rd place. He made the BMW bike do things it did not want to do. They have a lot of work to do at BMW , but it seems they found the right rider to give them results. But at least they seem to be the only bike to match the Aprilia in top speed and power , which is a good point. Melandri did really good. Great for WSBK. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Simond |
Agreed, that BMW looked a handful in the first race. Melandri's second race performance was really impressive. Performance of the day for me was Alex Lowes in the Supersport race. Everyone just blew past him on the main straight but he still managed to put a move in for the lead on the last lap to lead out of the final corner but ended up third over the line. Not bad for the first race of his first World Supersport season. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Interesting bit of trivia: Checa's winning qualifying SBK lap record time would have put him third on the grid in last year's MotoGP race at Phillip Island. His average lap over the entire race would have had him finishing 10th, ahead of 4 MotoGP racers.
Ref: 2010 Phillip Island MotoGP Race Results 2011 Phillip Island WSBK Race #2 Results Phillip Island Circuit Information | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Old Guys Rule! | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Yeehaaa.... racing at last! A good weekend racing although the Ducati was alwatys going to run away with it at Philip Island this year I think. Checa seems to improve with age and has certainly managed to throw off his 'Careless Chucca' reputation of old. I shall have to change my opinion of him if he doesn't start falling off again soon! The battle for second-fourth was entertaining though. Shame that Laverty ran out of road as I was sure he would improve on his race one 4th place in race two. The factory BMW of Haslam looked good, although Corser was ragged and the Toseland/Badovini satellite bikes nowhere at all. From what Leon Haslam said they have gone right back to basics on the factory bike and stripped off ALL of the electronics and started again in testing, so the factory BMW is likely to be very different to the Italia BMW team now. Heroes of the day for me were Jonathan Rea, racing with a dislocated finger and broken hand from 3 big crashes over the last week, and Leon Camier racing with glandular fever! The Supersport race was brilliant, and young Sam Lowes has shown that he will be a force to reckon with this year in his first season of WSS. I remember watching him and Alex his twin brother strutting around at a lowly club race in 2003 in matching white leathers (and dominating their Aprilia 125 series) so he has come up pretty quickly! I was surprised they didn't stop the WSS race a couple of laps early because of the rash of punctures with 3 laps to go. Very strange to see one puncture these days but to see 3 of the front runners succumb to rear tyre deflations is not good and must point to a Pirelli tyre problem rather than foreign object damage surely? | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
I hope BMW is paying decent money to Haslam, because he is riding the BMW to its 101%. I hope he suffers no crashes this season. | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Jaimec |
Marco was a revelation. He really didn't show ANYTHING during testing, but check him out in both races yesterday!! Rossi fans take note... | ||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
Good idea ....... Maybe Rossi, instead of joining the Ducati motoGP team, should have gone to WSBK with Ducati for his last year in racing, donate his salary to charity, and get a title in WSBK. But it seems that 15million Euros make you very greedy........not that Rossi needs the money, he is very very rich. |
