| Author | Message | ||
     Jdugger |
> this board is so over opinionated its retarded That said, I think the comments about the structural integrity of the top triple are warranted. | ||
| Court |
>>>>If someone wants to take and "hack" their bike... LET EM... I absolutely agree. . . . 100% And I'm not "opinionated" . . I'm "facted". I know the REALLY smart engineers who were responsible for making the 1125 parts and pieces weigh as little as possible. I've seen the graphic representations of the stresses and know that every time they got it to the point it was perfect they were charged with going back to find more of the top triple tree that could be removed. >>>>this board is so over opinionated its retarded.... That's inaccurate and a juvenile statement. It's poor form and reflects poorly on one to be calling folks on a "discussion" board "retards" because they have an opinion. Try a Porsche or political board and your head will explode. Let me reiterate . . I could care less what he does. I, too, am a habitual tinkerer. He, and he alone, knows precisely the intended use for the part. I spent years doing test riding of motorcycles. I knew that each and every deviation from stock made me a "test pilot" and added to my responsibilities to be aware of subtle changes I've been riding motorcycles (specifically a Buell) when the bike came in half at 80mph. (yep, I have photos). My point in posting the view point that you find "retarded" was to simply convey to the fellow that great caution is warranted. Be mindful that in the time I've been riding Buells I've seen over 100 people I know die, most at their own had due to lack of information or skill. Who knows what will happen in this case? I sure don't. I do know that in testing there were extensive (you'd be amazed if you knew the number of 1125s and XB's that were crashed to validate the head section and frame interface) design, engineering, analysis and testing to failure done on the subject piece. Court P.S. - and this is strictly personal and unrelated to the topic . . but the term "retard" is a poor choice of words to apply in this situation. | ||
| Jdugger |
> I know the REALLY smart engineers who were > responsible for making the 1125 parts and > pieces weigh as little as possible. And, to be sure, they had three challenges: 1. Make the part weigh as little as possible. 2. Have it perform multiple roles, if possible. 3. And deliver it to a cost point. The OEM triple does all three at a pretty reasonable compromise, but there are some significant compromises: Being a cheap(er) cast part, it's heavy for it's strength, and it sacrifices any adjustability for rider preference compared to traditional clip-ons. You can make a triple that's both lighter and stronger by cold working billet. But, it wouldn't be $80. | ||
| Court |
I agree. In addition, you will NEVER, racing or on the street, come close to replicating the things we did (are doing) to bikes in the testing process. Then again . . if your triple tree breaks no one is going to sue you for $10,000,000. One of the most interesting facets is crash testing of motorcycles. I'm sure many have you have taken note that while the federal government has rigid standards, and tests them, for crash worthiness for automobiles . . well, there isn't a one for motorcycles. But . . sitting in a deposition and saying "well, there aren't any standards, so we just never thought much about it" . . is a poor answer. Therefore each manufacturer develops extensive internal testing criteria which they keep very close to the vest. Interesting stuff. | ||
| Paulp1125cr |
Not to get too intangled in this mess of a thread but the average person is not held back by the restraints of a company trying to bring a product to market, I have been a machinist for close to 20 years machining parts for R and D departments for many companies and yes maybe the metal removal could have a little less but the odds are it will be fine. I think the problem is the way people phrase there concern, and Court I know u are held in high regard in the buell comunity but your all knowing responses do come off as being condesending, that's just may opinion. | ||
| Ridegreen2oo |
I feel that besides Ken's smartass comment, everyone respectfully posted to watch for cracks and to be careful. I didn't see any verbal attacks, or anyone calling you names. | ||
| Lovedabueller |
COURT... who did I call a retard??? I said the over opinionatedness of this board is retarded.... Ok maybe the word retarded is a little harsh... I apologize... I'm not out to hurt feelings... But some Of you need an English comprehension class... | ||
| Lovedabueller |
As I recall from this thread neither me nor puzzled asked if we removed too much material.... We didn't ask who thought there will be structural integrity issues with our clamps... So yes we are "showing off" our items.... That's what I mean by this board being over opinionated... Cause I could post a single pic of something and some people say"looks great" and others will find a reason to bash it... FREEDOM OF SPEECH... that's great... But unless someone asks your opinion of you....THEY PROBABLY DON'T WANNA HEAR IT.... ESPECIALLY IF IT'S BAD!!!! | ||
| Puzzled |
I let most of the stuff pass through one ear and out the other. I do appreciate the genuine concern though. | ||
| Drhodes1970 |
I think your work looks great and I love seeing these type of mods. If it cracks you'll have learned a lesson on removing material. If not you'll have a really nice top clamp that nobody else has. Either way, who am I to judge? | ||
| Jules |
As I recall from this thread neither me nor puzzled asked if we removed too much material.... That's true, but on the other hand people are free to state their opinion if they so wish.. I normally don't post a response to the "how do you like the look of this?" type of post if i can't be positive. I too hold thought there was too much material taken off the second clamp, but didn't post that as others already had and by then it was clear it's not for street use so (as you say) it'll probably be fine. When you post something on the internet it's open to public scrutiny and opinion.. | ||
| Puzzled |
I think your work looks great and I love seeing these type of mods. If it cracks you'll have learned a lesson on removing material. If not you'll have a really nice top clamp that nobody else has. Either way, who am I to judge? That is my train of thought. As long as it isn't catastrophic I don't mind learning a lesson! | ||
| Lovedabueller |
JULES... understood,,,,open to the public.... I normally don't post a response to the "how do you like the look of this?" type of post if i can't be positive. = RESPECT!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Blake |
I sure appreciate Court taking time to offer his views here. It's a fragile ego that is offended by well-intended information. Loved, and Puzzled, Both modified clamps have removed a significant amount of material from the primary load paths between steering stem and forks. It's a VERY bad thing. Puzzled, please do not use that clamp. It is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Folks pay me $100+/hr for such advice. Am happy to offer it free to y'all. When you clamp on the front brake, the upper steering stem is seeing at least 2,000 lbs, likely a LOT more, load. The top of the forks are pushing forward on the triple clamp, while the steering stem is resisting both by pushing aft. You've impaired the bending strength by a factor of ten or more. If only you'd left a thin web, or avoided the primary truss load-path, you might have been okay. Compare to a Ducati or MV Augusta racing setup. Where the material is and what grade it is is as much if not more important as how much material there is. Please be careful. | ||
| Kenm123t |
My smart ass remark was intended to get your attention. Maybe you will consult with an engineer that knows a thing or two about stress and load paths. The point of my comment was to get you thinking so you dont die using that part! If your mad but alive I can live with that but if I did'nt and you died I would always wonder if I should have said something. | ||
| Lovedabueller |
"Both modified clamps have removed a significant amount of material from the primary load paths between steering stem and forks. " WRONG AGAIN!!!!! i made sure not to mill into the primary primary load paths of the material..... see below....  | ||
| Puzzled |
Same here, I didn't remove a single bit of the main supports, just some of the webbing but not all of it to insure I left what would simulate an "I" beam. Dieing wasn't on my list of things to do this year. I passed that up a few years ago so I'm good. | ||
| Paulp1125cr |
Nice!! A pic is always a good way to prove your point. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Look up why a diaphram or webbing is added to structures. Leave out the diaphram and you need to increase the size and or strength of the remaining structure. Note how much stronger a card board box is with the lid on. With out the webbing some of those (Primary load paths) become pivot points. Blake chime in for a better explaination. In the old tuber days Buell had the finite analyisis wire frame videos posted on line till HD realized they were there and pulled down the site till it was sanitized by legal eagles | ||
| Lovedabueller |
Kenm123t - Listen i understand the argument that your trying to make.... if you actually look ant the pics of my clamp... Yes a cardboard box is stronger with the lid off... however how much weaker is the box if you put a whole in the middle of the lid.... i still have material all around the inner edge of the clamps major structure points except around where the stem is,.... its a little close... Here is my point,,,, things were thought out... i might not be a highly regarded buell engineer or some dude that has done extensive testing on these products.... however im not stupid either plenty of thought went in to what i did.... ... if my triple breaks ill be the first to tell you the I TOLD YOU SO.... (BUT IT WONT) HOWEVER UNTIL THEN..... with all do respect if you havent got the hint already leave it alone... | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Have you ever heard the one where the man stands up on a table at a party and yells out "THE PROBLEM WITH WOMEN IS THAT THEY ALWAYS TAKE THINGS PERSONALLY!" To which three women yell back "WELL I DON'T!!" It reminds me of this thread. That said, nice machining work. It makes me long for machining tools.... and a nice little shop to put them in. | ||
| Court |
>>>>> with all do respect if you havent got the hint already leave it alone... Well put. Don't have to tell me twice. | ||
| Blake |
>>> i made sure not to mill into the primary primary load paths of the material..... see below Did I mention that structural/stress analysis is what I do?  In effect, you've obliterated the web of what was a deep channel C-section beam, turning it into two small L-sections. In so doing, you've wiped out more than 90% of the section's bending strength. It's not intuitively obvious. Easy thing to miss. It's a VERY bad thing. What I said before is 100% truth. Give me a call if you like. I'm happy to explain. Number is in the RAN listing. Do yourself a huge favor. Listen. | ||
| Blake |
Paulp1125cr Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2011 - 10:32 pm: >>> Nice!! A pic is always a good way to prove your point. In this case it does the exact opposite. | ||
| Paulp1125cr |
Hey lovedabueller after u get a few thousand miles out of that triple tree make sure u post some pics. I've machined enough aluminum molds and custom parts for guys to say that I think you'll be fine, did u weaken it a bit? probably, but I think it's fine. Just my opinion though.(seams to be the perfect thread for that, opinions that is). | ||
| Lovedabueller |
LOL yeah i may not have a structural engineer degree... but i too think it will be fine.. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I'm sorry to break this to ya, but machining some "aluminum molds", and "custom parts" for guys doesn't make anyone even qualified for a guess IMHO. But what do I know.... I've only been a machinist for 27 years, and later a tool designer. Structural guys are incredibly anal for a reason. I know, designing several molds FOR Buell. A couple required some significant part design changes. Some, they wouldn't let me make for structural integrity sake. Me? I personally would have started from scratch with a piece of 7075. Would you guys trust an engineer to program or machine parts? I know I wouldn't. Same reason why engineers like Blake don't like us machinists trying to "re-engineer" something such as a triple tree. Posting your mods also invites educated critiquing. Whether you like them or not. Good luck, and be careful. | ||
| Drawkward |
Love: I thought you were used to BadWeb being like this, man! You shoulda known!! | ||
| Blake |
Steve, You mean 7075-T6, right?  | ||
| Bwbhighspl |
The only way to paint this thread in a positive light is to call it a "hotwashing" session, as applied to entrepreneurship. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Hotwash Damn the nay-sayers! Do what you have to do. Maybe you'll learn something, maybe you'll teach something. You don't know. That said, here's a picture of structural integrity.  (Message edited by bwbhighspl on February 01, 2011) (Message edited by bwbhighspl on February 01, 2011) |
