| Author | Message | ||
     Buellrain |
Well guy's after a pain staking 7 WEEKS since the original problem I have finally got my bike back!!! In my opinion the original stator just gave up the ghost, then when installing the new one which "apparently burnt out after 5 minutes" the mechanic installed it wrong and left the washer inside. However either they were not aware of this or they wanted to hide/cover it up by blaming the ECM and voiding my warranty!! The real issue was that rather than continuing the trouble shoot process and looking into it further they blamed the ECM and would not continue till new parts were received and the original ECM was given back, it wasn't till about 5 weeks down the road that the stator cover was taken off and the internal damage was found which I was not informed of and only found out as a friend happened to be there picking up his bike and had a look at mine, informed me so I went to have a look, even with this they still blamed the original burn out on the ECM. Well after a few emails and a couple of calls to Erik Buell Racing, they contacted H-D/Buell customer service in the States and got them to contact my dealer which in turn agreed to fix my bike as a "good will warranty" This process took a while as my original issue happened a few weeks before xmas, then when the new one "burnt out" it was the 23rd Dec, so with the holidays etc etc, it took a little longer which didn’t really affect me as the parts only arrived on 23rd Jan. During this time I had read alot on the forums about Stators and ECM's etc and there does seem to be a few misconceptions out there regarding the Erik Buell Racing ECM, obviously I had in-depth emails with Erik Buell Racing and a couple of LOOOONG distance phone calls, so I thought I'd share the info which you guys for future reference. 1. Although it’s called or marketed as a "Race ECM" this is just a name or done for legality reasons in the states. It is the original part number with a "remap" for fueling, timing etc is not adjusted. Although they offer different maps for stock or different pipes basically they wrote a map for the different pipes rode them for a while and adjusted it accordingly to what they found suited that particular pipe/slip on, as mentioned the "for race use only" is engraved on the ECM for legality reasons. I was also told by Erik Buell Racing that these ECM's or Map's on them were being developed before H-D pulled the plug and were going to be sold as a original H-D part as an option for those wanting to beef the sound up on their bikes as the original pipes had to sound the way they do to pass emission and sound regulations etc. 2.The ECM does NOT in any way alter the way the bike charges, it’s the SAME although you may notice slight variations on your cluster its minimal, you do NOT need to try to ride everywhere above 5k etc. 3.Some stuff such as the COLD flashing at start up and NOID being deactivated have been overwritten as if you are using it for track days/racing you don’t want the NOID kicking in or see stuff flashing up on your display. There were a few other things that I have probably missed but am trying to do this quickly as about to go to work, my opinion is if you guy's had concerns about the Erik Buell Racing ECM then DON'T as your bike will run allot better resulting in a larger grin under that helmet, if your bike's warranty is out than don't think twice, however if you do still have a warranty make sure you remove before getting any work done as bottom line with the dealer its seen as a aftermarket modification which they have the right to void warranty because of it. After getting the bike back I thought I would give Erik Buell Racing a call to say a BIG THANK YOU and how much their help had been appreciated, I asked to speak to the TECH department and wound up chatting to Michael who I thought had been replying to my emails and dealing with my case all along, he told me the above info and more regarding the ECM, he also said that they are still trying to develop a long term fix for the stator problem but in the mean time had purchased 60 of the 08 stator assemblies which have proved to be allot less problematic than the 09+ stators, so if any of you are going through the same then I would recommend giving them a call and ordering an 08. The part that surprised me the most was he said that Erik had dealt with my issue personally and had made all the call's etc to the customer support at H-D to get this done under warranty!!!! He had also replied to my emails but was signed off as "Tech Support" Bearing in mind that most of this communication was done over the Christmas and New Year period it gives me even more respect for the living legend, that he would take the time to get involved when surely he had plenty of other things to be getting on with, with the Holiday's and new bike development etc. Customer care such as shown here is the core of successful business and I have no doubt that the team at Erik Buell Racing will grow from strength to strength, they have a true belief in what they do and genuinely give a S*&^ about those riding their bikes, with all the controversy about these bikes and even having my own doubts over that period of being bike less I can honestly say that I'm proud to be a little part of the Buell family. We have NOT seen the end of Buell and the small hiccup of Harley pulling the plug will reap rewards in the end with Erik and the team producing bikes that they envisage without restrictions. Thanks Erik........................ | ||
| Court |
That's an accurate statement. I think folks will soon be amazed. | ||
| Trojan |
However either they were not aware of this or they wanted to hide/cover it up by blaming the ECM and voiding my warranty!! Seems to be a standard UK H-D dealer policy when you take a bike back for warranty work. 'Blame the aftermarket parts' (regardless of whether they are actually connected to the problem!) is a familiar mantra unfortunately and just covers up inadequte training, poor investigation and a general lack of enthusiasm and knowlege of Buells. | ||
| Court |
If the dealers get good enough at blaming someone/something else . . . they become eligible to hold public office in the United States. By the way . . .President Bush made me say this. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I have endless respect for Erik Buell and his team at Erik Buell Racing. But I also know how the game is played. My bike never enters the shop for service without all OEM parts installed to avoid any raised eyebrows, and to prevent any excuses. Thanks for the insight and inside info on the Race ECM. It is the best money you can spend on your 1125. (Message edited by mountainstorm on January 28, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Court - LOL ! One point of disagreement. 2.The ECM does NOT in any way alter the way the bike charges, it’s the SAME although you may notice slight variations on your cluster its minimal, you do NOT need to try to ride everywhere above 5k etc. charging may not be different but as stated by anon there are other differences, the fans come on sooner and stay on longer... I ran the ebr ecm on for 2 weeks, off for 2 weeks for a period of four months. On and off 8 times. Each time the ebr ecm was used electrical issues, the battery light would go on immediately after hitting the kill switch. The charging system wouldn't do hot restarts 2x and weak restarts on a semi cooled bike. Every time the OEM ECM went back on charging issues would disappear. One reason may be that I do not use a battery tender. When I first started riding over 40 years ago electrical systems were weak and battery tenders were considered normal for many bike owners. I didn't use them then and 40 years later I hear the same thing, battery tenders? the stator is supposed to be responsible for the batteries health plain and simple. I sent the ECM back for reflash 2x and asked both times for oem Voltage Regulation. That was the best I could do in my assessment, aparently not good enough. The ebr ecm makes the bike run great but my experience suggests that their electrical system algorithms are NOT the same as OEM. After I sold the ebr ecm the above issues went away. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I've got over 10K miles on my Race ECM. Original battery. I use heated apparel all Winter and I ride often. I think you are blaming the ECM for something that is wrong with your bike. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Mountainstorm - And that something wrong just disappears all by itself ! ! | ||
| Ratsmc |
Danny, what you are describing happening with the Erik Buell Racing ECM is exactly what I experience with the OEM. | ||
| Crowley |
That is the mark of the man  Erik got personally involved in replacing a signed 25TH anniversary poster that my Dealer friend had got for me as a 50th birthday present. Sadly, my friend died in a bike accident whilst carrying my gift. Doing an act of kindness, for a nobody, the otherside of the Atlantic, is what makes owning a Buell (or 7  ) very special. I'm just a customer who's 'resting' for a while, until the next beast is on the market | ||
| Blake |
>>> And that something wrong just disappears all by itself ! ! No, it disappeared when you installed a different ECM. There are a number of factors that might explain that. The idea that the race ECM in general is the cause is untenable, as too many others using race ECMs cannot replicate your particular issue while others see the same issue when running an OEM ECM. But let's not pollute the thread with any further divergence. I certainly trust what Erik and his crew state about the issue. I agree. Thanks Erik and everyone at Erik Buell Racing! | ||
| Blake |
And thanks especially to Buellrain for taking time to share that story. Really great information and a valuable bit of history too. | ||
| Trafford |
I run Erik Buell Racing ECM with navigation, heated grips, heated jacket and voltage meter. Idle speed was reduced at my request to 1350 rpm and at this idle speed the voltage is showing 14.2v. At higher RPM it is always between 13.6 and 14.2 I am in Holland. I can confirm Mountainstorm's experiences. Maybe we are just lucky. 1125R Feb 2008 Manufacture | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I might be biased but I think Feb 2008 was a good "born on" date  | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Removing the eb r ECM before taking your bike in for an engine related warranty job is a big duh.. same for removing an aftermarket exhaust or maybe even air filter. That's absolutely great that Erik himself went to bat for you. Thumbs up to him, and for the love of God, put your bike back to stock the next time you take it in! Lol | ||
| Zac4mac |
It all depends on the shop. I was looking at a torn down 1125R - ebr race exhaust caught my eye. Race Use Only engraved in the ECM. no problem here. Wherever you take your bike, have a good relationship for the best outcome. OT - today was in the 60s and I put 30 or 40 miles on Loretta. I'm still smiling. Thanks Erik and company!!! Zack Z | ||
| Ohsoslow |
zac i couldnt agree more with you on having a good relationship with your dealer. but on the other hand it can be very hard, as im sure you know, most dealers want nothing to do with buell. this is why if i have any issues in the future ill be putting the stock ecm back on. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Actually , the letter of the law is unless they can prove the aftermarket part CAUSED the failure, they can't void the warranty because of it. If you have a race ECM, and a cam chain tensioner fails, you'd still be covered. ECM doesn't run the cam chain tensioner. | ||
| Court |
That is accurate. For details: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode15/usc_sup _01_15_10_50.html | ||
| Blake |
There might be a case made concerning mechanical issues if the race ECM bumps the rev limit. | ||
| Avalaugh |
"I might be biased but I think Feb 2008 was a good "born on" date " I agree Mountainstorm  | ||
| Court |
>>>>There might be a case made concerning mechanical issues if the race ECM bumps the rev limit. There very well may be. But by then you have several middle management level attorneys going at it. Even they are smart enough to settle rather than undertake the costly, and time consuming, exercise is proving "beyond reasonable doubt" proximate cause. The attorneys, I'd be willing to hazard a guess, are not the top 10% of their class. Call it a hunch . . . | ||
| Jules |
The attorneys, I'd be willing to hazard a guess, are not the top 10% of their class. LMAO My dealer is fine with me bringing the bike in with the Barker and the Erik Buell Racing ECM on, they sold the bike with the noid cable not connected to the TB and are really quite friendly and always give me a gentle "ribbing" when I go in for not buying a real (Harley) bike off them.. I'm not concerned about returning the bike to stock for warranty work, if an aftermarket part broke something covered under warranty i wouldn't claim as it'd be my fault... If something unconnected to the aftermarket part broke then I'd expect them to pay, the dealer & I both understand that and trust each other enough to be honest about it. As to Erik himself getting involved in fighting an owners corner, I just think that's fantastic what a truly amazing guy he is! And what a fantastic core team he has around him too.. | ||
| Anonymous |
Appreciate the positive comments, but unfortunately there is some mis-information in the OP's note that needs to be set right. 1a) The Race ECM's are for race use only. They do not meet legal requirements for the street, and we will never tell anyone they do. So acting like we told the customers that it is a "wink, wink" is not true. You can choose to run it on the street, but you are choosing to run a part that does not meet EPA/Euro requirements, and that has not been tested for street durability. 1b) No one at Erik Buell Racing told you these maps were being developed by H-D for sale, because it is not true. These maps were developed here on our dyno, for race use only. H-D does not sell parts like this for their bikes nor would they do so for Buells. 1c) Fueling, ignition and more are changed, not just fueling. In addition, Erik did contact the people in Buell/H-D Service to make them aware and see if they could help. However, that is what they have asked him to do if he hears of problems, and it was the folks in that Service group that got this done, so they deserve the credit. | ||
| Court |
>>>the folks in that Service group that got this done, so they deserve the credit. By the way . . not withstanding our communal disdain for Harley-Davidson . . the folks in that group deserve a LOT of credit. Back behind a screen you seldom see are some really smart, enthusiastic professionals. Cool beans. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Court and ratbuell, while the letter of the law states that a warranty cannot be voided because of an aftermarket part if that aftermarket part did not cause or contribute to the failure, the reality is that an uncooperative dealership or manufacturer could make getting the failed part warrantied prohibitively difficult or expensive. Ever get a speeding ticket and go to fight it in court? The letter of the law in the US says innocent until proven guilty, but the reality of the situation is that it's your word against the cop's and the court will almost always be inclined to believe the cop. With a few exceptions, someone charged with speeding has almost no chance of beating it in court without legal aid, paid for out of pocket, and even then the odds aren't great. (speeding tickets CAN be beaten--I've beaten a few, but it's part luck and part skill and far from a sure thing.) My point is that the dealer or the manufacturer can claim that an aftermarket part caused a failure and therefore voided the warranty coverage for that part. The customer has little recourse short of suing the manufacturer. Is it worth it to spend several grand or more on an attorney when the manufacturer has legions of attorneys to throw at the problem and when there is no guarantee of victory? So, that aftermarket part might be in no way responsible for a failure, but why take the chance of having the manufacturer claim that it was, especially when the aftermarket part could be removed without too much trouble? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Heres the moral of this story: take your aftermarket "RACE USE ONLY" out of your bike before you take it in for service. are you kidding me? | ||
| Tippster |
My dealer puts up with my aftermarket stuff on my Buells without any complaint... quite the contrary they are stoked on the performance/sound/ergonomic improvements when they take the bike for the mandatory test ride. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My dealer SEEMS to be cool with aftermarket parts/exhausts, however it's just common sense to spend the five minutes it takes to yank the Erik Buell Racing ECM before taking it in for service. after all, its HD which makes the warranty approvals in the end. The dealer will most likely spin things in your favor when reporting the problem to HD (ie not mentioning the aftermarket parts) but why even cloud the picture or put your service dept in that situation? I have gotten compliments on my Barkers at the dealership, but then if they didn't like aftermarket pipes they would be alienating most of their clients. LOL | ||
| Dannybuell |
THX anon. | ||
| Buellrain |
Of course guy’s it’s a “no brainer” to remove the ECU before taking it in for a service, unfortunately I broke down on the side of the road and got the bike recovered by the H-D shop, no time to remove it and considering that the stator seems a common fault, I did’nt really think it would be a problem. Those of you with dealers that are cool with aftermarket parts are the lucky ones!! Who no doubt have enthusiastic mech’s who not only have in depth knowledge of how these bikes work but also appreciate that often an “aftermarket” part may in fact make the bike run better.. .maybe make the bike run a little richer as to too lean with that aftermarket pipe etc. The real point of the story was that without Erik’s intervention with the customer service/support at H-D my bike over 7000miles from the states would not of been fixed under warranty, so for that I’m truly grateful. | ||
| Jules |
I suppose another argument for removing the Race ECM is to prevent there being any chance of the dealer accidently trying to flash it... | ||
| Danxb9r |
Erik rocks can't wait until his next creation! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The Erik Buell Racing ECM is for sure kinder to the engine than the stocker, but the way I ride the bike with the Erik Buell Racing ECM surely isn't! |
