| Author | Message | ||
     Jersey_thunder |
victory motorcycles the new real american cruiser !!!! and they are freaking stomping HD ass !!! my .02 (Message edited by jersey_thunder on January 27, 2011) | ||
| Kirb |
Did I see the price right? Is it $16,000? I never did get this 'forced' trend from HD. Blacked out bikes that cost the same or more than the chrome ones? Flat paint on a NEW bike? Wasn't that the whole reason to buy a decked out HD is the bling factor? Wasn't the main goal to sell a bike missing $3k worth of chorme to get the buyer to add it later? When the selling point is 'stripped', why would anyone want to 'add' to it? I'm not really the target market. Maybe that's why I don't get it. I did buy a US made, non HD crusier, however. I bit in to the 'sub $10k' rule and found a new-in-crate 2000 Excelsior Henderson Super X for a steal. I always love getting asked- 'What kind of Harley is that?' | ||
| Dannybuell |
Blake - your thinking all those homo thoughts with yourself as an object of someones affection, see how you are. I on the other hand am speaking of bitches. Why not focus on the income statement in the first thread? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't blame HD for trying... the business model is attractive. Make motorcycles like fashion statements, where hemlines change every year and you must continually update your wardrobe to stay in style. (in my best spoiled brat voice) And I want a pony. (/brat) We will see how that works out for both of us.  | ||
| Sprintst |
I see Harley following in GM's footsteps. Their new CEO isn't a motorcycle guy, just like Rodger Smith wasn't a car guy. I don't think it bodes well for their future. Again, I'm a high income, 46 y/o white male. I AM the target market, I AM the future of a motorcycle company, just like a buddy of mine. Buell was just getting to the point of making me seriously consider buying one when Harley shut the doors. Well, I eventually got an 1125R anyway. There isn't a single Harley product I would buy, ever. My buddy might possibly go for a Nightrod or something similar, but he's got 2 Buells now and it's unlikely he'd like riding a Harley enough to buy one. If Harley could/would listen, they are losing the next generation of buyers. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
The "next generation of riders" is going to be a MUCH smaller group than the boomers and have grown up in a sissified mindset too. I don't know too many guys under 30 who even know which end a hammer to hold. Let those of us here be thankful we have been living in these times. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Sprintst & Duphuckincati - +1 They should have folded the Buells into the HD lineup and phased out the sportster. | ||
| Sprintst |
I had neighbors in their late 20's that couldn't/wouldn't turn a screw driver. They thought it was amazing I could do an oil change, and doing brakes was equivalent to black magic. So Dup, I definitely hear ya on that. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
H-D lost a great deal of the next generation of riders when they shut down Buell. The problem is, H-D and the hordes of their enthusiasts sit around and listen to each other. But rarely do they ever take a peek outside their little boxes. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has moved on with technology and performance! Look at their stab at the standard MC market--the XR1200. In every comparison with its peers from around the world AND the Buell Lightning, the XR1200 gets stomped. It's the same line for that bike: "It's a good bike....for a Harley...." Buell was the only division of H-D that had the know-how to make their bikes perform. And what did they do? Shut them down so H-D can concentrate on building more mediocre American bikes. | ||
| Blake |
Danny, Your proclivity was to imagine me as a "bitch", then "in diapers", and now as an "object of...affection" while referring to "homo thoughts." Your words, not mine. I'm not into that. Never have been. Never will be. You do as you please, but I'd rather you keep it off my web site. I'd very much welcome it if you would limit discussion to the income statement, the thread topic, rather than smart-assed ad hominem commentary. The opening diversion from the thread topic was 100% of your making, not mine. I don't like smart asses. Never have. Never will. Try not to be one, and we'll get along fine. Otherwise, not so much. Your choice. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Blake - 'object of affection' was all yours. 'I don't like smart asses. Never have. Never will. Try not to be one, and we'll get along fine. Otherwise, not so much. ' We do agree on some things! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Harley screwed up Buell in just about every way possible even when they were at arms length. Imagine how much they would have screwed them up by "mainstreaming" them. A fate worse than death for the brand. Harleys idea of a "good Buell" was the XR1200. Fine if you want one, but it ain't no Buell. The 2010 XR1200 was like my 2000 M2, but done badly. :/ I was thinking exactly the opposite. Harley should have been inverted. Buell should have been put in charge, and Harley should have become the "heritage" line. Keep milking that cash cow with "new for this year flat black" and t-shirts, but let Buell start building the future. Put a Harley next to the big Kawasaki, Yamaha, and Honda cruisers, and you know they are in serious trouble. Put a Harley next to a new victory, and you have to wonder if Harley isn't already dead, and just doesn't know it yet. | ||
| Ratgin |
XR1200 is a good bike for what it is,, a sporty cruiser. It got very decent reviews. Buells are sport bikes. Even the XB12X is considered a sport touring bike not an adventure bike, At this point in my life i think id trade my 1125R for an XR1200. I dont race, no desire ever too and as such I really havent found a use for 4th 5th or 6th gear on the highway. Bike hates anything less then 4500 rpm and 1st gear is bloody aweful in town. XR1200 has lots of issues(tanks, ground clearance, rear shocks) of its own but its great around town and a blast on back roads. (Message edited by ratgin on January 27, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Reepicheep - 'I was thinking exactly the opposite. Harley should have been inverted. Buell should have been put in charge, and Harley should have become the "heritage" line. Keep milking that cash cow with "new for this year flat black" and t-shirts, but let Buell start building the future. ' makes sense to me! | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
"They should have folded the Buells into the HD lineup and phased out the sportster." That's like saying mcdonalds should phase out burgers. I agree that they should have kept buell and invested more in it, but the sportster is hd's bread and butter, it is the entry bike, it got them through the great depression, and it will probably get them through this downturn. | ||
| Blake |
Danny, >>> 'object of affection' was all yours. Not so much.  Though I admit, most folks who get to know me indeed do develop a deep fondness for me; the ladies can't help but want to snuggle up to me. You've probably heard my theme song. >>> Harley should have been inverted. Buell should have been put in charge, and Harley should have become the "heritage" line. I agree. Or at a minimum Buell should have been cut loose entirely from H-D and made a stand alone division of the company. | ||
| Ratgin |
Shame that CanAM didnt end up with Buell. Lots of R&D dollars to perfect some good Street/Adventure bikes and dealerships who would actually sell/service the product. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Just stumbled upon this information while surfing my usual motorcycle websites. I don't like Keith Wandell at all or many of Harley's buisiness practices but I also own an '09 Street Bob and it has been a great bike for me. I would not write Harley off just yet: "Harley-Davidson sold 222,110 units in 2010, down 8.5% from 242,634 units sold the previous year. U.S. sales totaled 143,391 units, a decrease of 11.7% from 2009 but ahead of the industry-wide 15.8% decrease in U.S. sales reported by the Motorcycle Industry Council. Based on the MIC’s data, Harley-Davidson sales accounted for 32.7% of all U.S. motorcycle sales and 46.7% of on-highway model sales." Here's the full article: http://www.motorcycle.com/news/harley-davidson-rep orts-2010-results-90367.html -Tutt | ||
| Brumbear |
But only Japonese Motorcycles recorded an increase in sales in 2010 and don't forget Buell sales are counted into H-D sales for 2010 no matter how small a percentage but I'll bet it's 4% of it: Japanese Motorcycle Manufacturers Report Production Increases October 24, 2010 - JAMA reported an increase in motorcycle production in Japan, signaling an end to the nearly two-year long decline due to depressed world economic conditions. Number of Motorcycles Produced Motorcycle production in September 2010 was recorded as 57,908 units. Compared with the 45,646 units total recorded for the same month of the previous year, this is an increase of 12,262 units or 26.9%, and production increase on the same month of the previous year for seven consecutive months. Japan - September 2010 Motorcycle Production Figures by Class 50cc or under 8,410 units, down 73 units or 0.9% 51 - 125cc 9,106 units, up 3,678 units or 67.8% 126 - 250cc 12,870 units, down 747 units or 5.5% Over 250cc 27,522 units, up 9,404 units or 51.9% Number of Motorcycle Domestic Sales Domestic sales (factory shipment) in September 2010 stood at 38,512 units, a decrease of 4.9% as compared with the same month of the previous year. | ||
| Court |
Sales numbers . . for HD . . are the blood coming from the wound . . not the source of the injury. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
The XR1200 is not a sport cruiser. That was the H-D Street Rod. The XR1200 competes against bikes like the Z1000, Guzzi Breva 1200, BMW R1200R, Ducati Monster, etc. It's a Standard motorcycle. | ||
| Weatherman |
still unbelievable that h-d could not understand anyone wanting something other than a "heritage" bike. meantime bmw expands their target audience with a revolutionary sportbike introduced last year. this year they expand or continue development of new luxury touring bike and sport touring bike, middleweight adventure bikes, adventure single bikes, off road bikes, dual purpose bikes, and a mega-scooter (concept c seen at javitz center mc show). i have a 883 iron for my connection to american motorcycle heritage and local commuting, and a gold wing for touring (reasonably good handling and great for the superslab). reepicheep, i also can't see what a xr1200 has any better than my 2000 m2 cyclone. I can sport tour on my 1125cr. uly is a great bike for a lot of niches and sometimes i wish i had gotten one. I can see how h-d could have expanded into all the niches bmw is going after now by investing in buell, but that was never going to happen. what a shame | ||
| Brumbear |
I truly believe for the next year or so H-D is a smoke and mirror financial report. Corporate guys are good at the shell game but eventually you gotta reveal the nut. I agree with you Court sales are the nut the money is the shells, add to that that Harley makes motorcycles and well the big 3 Japanese Co. we been down that road before. The other bike only Co. have a very small share of the industry. Getting the picture  | ||
| Blake |
>>> The XR1200 competes against bikes like the Z1000, Guzzi Breva 1200, BMW R1200R, Ducati Monster, etc. I don't think so. I know I'd never consider it in that class of machines, which are all sport bikes, not repli-racers, or supersport, just plain old sport bikes. H-D may delude themselves into thinking that the sportster is a sport bike, but it doesn't make it true. Wheelbase, weight, lean angle, and power matter. (Message edited by blake on January 28, 2011) | ||
| Ratgin |
Yup and my insurance agent agrees. Its a cruiser abit a sporty one. A few reviewers call it a nakid sportbike but i think thats a bit of a stretch. All in all its a decent bike that in true HD fashion can be made very good for another 3k. | ||
| Trackdad |
My belief is that HD allowed a distict separation thinking at one point that Buell could help build a brand with a HD heart. Times and philosophies change and as Buell deveolped HD couldn't manage a marriage of two distinct motorcycle directions. As that happened the distance widened and after a while no amount of talking could change the outcome. Just like MV Agusta there was no way to blend it as a HD product. Sure I would have liked to see the next Buell bikes and now that will never happen. Did HD screw up-probably but I doubt very highly that the mistake will ever get the proper response. As for the future, I hope to afford a new Erik Buell Racing or whatever the name might be. Never look back and wonder because lifes to damn short. | ||
| Kirb |
wow, $12k starting for a XR1200? Yikes. So many better bikes for that money. I do give HD credit in getting people to buy an 883 by calling it 'iron'. Where most men wouldn't touch it 3-4 years ago. | ||
| Crabby |
Victorys, are bang for the buck better than HD Bigger engines, 6 speed trannies, more power and excellent suspension (for a cruiser) starting at 12k. 106CI vs 1200 CC sporty at that price. | ||
| Brumbear |
OK for shyts and giggles HD xr 1200x dual brakes no size listed,no suspension info listed,5 speed trans,551lb dry weight. Kawasaki ziooo dual 300 mm discs 41mm fully adjustable suspension,6 speed trans digital advance ign.no weight listed Ducati monster1100 evo dual 320mm front discs 6 speed trans fully adjustable 43mm front forks 373 dry weight abs BMW r 1200r dual front 6 speed telelever suspension abs 437 lbs dry sumation NO COMPARISON the xr1200 doesn't even belong there | ||
| Phwx2 |
The economy sucked for years before 2008. 0% financing kept the car and truck sales up but basically the toilet flushed in 2006. I've been involved in the credit crisis and it is very clear America was in denial for years. The economic was crap but a certain group(s) of people benefited from saying it was good. There is only so long that a company can count on the sweet spot where meat heads will pay big money for chromed junk. Caddy found that out in 1974, HD in 2006. Caddy had GM to hold it together; HD has nothing. I don't think they will survive. I want buell back and I want Victory to succeed. HD line workers didn't screw this up - Corporate America did. As usual. |
