| Author | Message | ||
     Socoken |
Has anyone tried a dry shot of nitrous on an 1125r? I was thinking it might be fun to try a 15-20 hp boost. I had a nitrous kit for my M2 but never got around to rigging it up, and Ive always wanted to try it. I know a wet shot would be more reliable and give more power, but its also a lot spendier/more complicated. Thanks | ||
| Littlebutquick |
craig jones ran a 50 shot when he did the ice speed record not sure if it was wet or dry .a 15 /20 dry shot would be fine as long as your rich enough top end | ||
| Fast1075 |
Smurf Juice. I used to buy mine in the economy 125 pound size and crossfill into my 3 or 5 pound bottles....small tire bike ran a single 3 pounder...Top Gas bike ran two 5 pounders... A wet system is very reliable and does not depend on the ecm to keep the mixture rich enough....a 40 or 50 horse progressive system would be the bomb...tunable and incremental...they do wear solenoids rapidly, but rebuild kits are cheap...but be careful it is very addictive...more power is easy...it will point out any weakness in your motor or powertrain... | ||
| No_rice |
the system they ran on the ice was a progressive system. up to 100 horse. but the stock clutch couldnt hold the 100 horse for the run because it had to be ramped up so steeply so fast for the short run they were doing, so it did only run up to 50 that particular time. i cant recall if it was wet or dry, but id wager on wet. dry brings bad mojo along with it far to often. somewhere i have info on it from some conversations i had with jens... obviously because of my own demented ideas... lol. someday... someday... i mean really, how can my 9 be on the giggedy gas and not my 1125's | ||
| No_rice |
I know a wet shot would be more reliable and give more power, but its also a lot spendier/more complicated. oh, and depends how you look at it. is it cheaper and easier to do a nitrous system good or rebuild an engine when it goes boom? | ||
| Fast1075 |
I wonder how much cylinder pressure that wet deck motor will take with stock headgaskets and studs....if I was going to build one, I would be looking at how to keep it sealed up....but damn would that be fun. | ||
| Torquaholic |
I wrote this to Tech at E-Bee-R: Subject: limit of 1125 motor? "I have searched some online to see if I can get an idea of the structural power/torque limit of the 1125 Helicon. I'm thinking in terms of leaving the stock motor alone and doing some kind of forced induction, more likely a wet nitrous kit as opposed to turbo due to the compression ratio. I'd like to know what theoretical power limit I should keep in mind to hopefully keep from busting parts. I look forward to hearing back from you, even if it is to tell me I'm nuts!" Here's what they wrote back: There are many different ways of making power and these affect components differently. The base 1125 motor is strong and has no inherent flaws. However, as we build the motor to 190+ RWHP (205+ crank HP), we do modify quite a few items. Not sure these would be the right items for a nitrous motor. Thank you, Tech Support Erik Buell Racing ...Just food for thought. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
IF I understand it properly, if you use a dry system, you absolutely HAVE TO use the stock fuel system to enrich the mixture during the shot. Don't know how much the stock injectors are capable of, and you probably could get there from her, but it would take a LOT of programming to compensate for the additional O. If not, massive lean condition, and boom. Wet would be MUCH simpler. (IMHO....<grin>  R | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
what about dry with the top hat injectors used for the race kit? maybe best of both? | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
wet will shread your rear tire...dry with the spray over your air temp senser will richen your fuel and give you enough to poop your pants...keep it mellow..should be fine..when you start to push it..BAD !! i put the same type on street busa's.. | ||
| Sprintst |
Given the state of tune for the EPA, I wouldn't want to run dry myself | ||
| Socoken |
Im currently running an HMF and the Erik Buell Racing race ecm. I was thinking a 15hp dry shot, only a 10% increase, should be pretty mellow. I could shoot an email to Erik Buell Racing and ask, but Im just bench racing at this point. Does anyone know if the Erik Buell Racing ecm allows for the IAT or MAF or MAP sensors (whatever is in there?) to boost fuel enough not to run lean? I guess I could just rig it and run it on the dyno with a sniffer to see. | ||
| Firemanjim |
Dry shots depend on some way for ecm to enrichen mixture,some bump fuel pressure,some have secondary map that is triggered by nitrous solenoid.Did a 50hp dry shot on a Busa and it has secondary map in stock ecu that can be used for this,sweet set-up! But to be sure any nitrous system should be dynoed to make sure you are not lean and ideally you want a AFR in the 12's to be safe. Wet system uses it own fuel supply and is better for bigger shots. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
that's what i'm talking about the ecm has a second map available for the fog/rain whatever injectors that the race bikes use. that plus a dry shot... | ||
| Firemanjim |
None of the Buells I have seen---all 08 and earlier---- had any secondary map. The Busa does--no idea why, but it works really well. And 08 and up Busa,Gix 1000 have ability to tune for boost in stock ecu, no piggyback needed. We are trying a retro fit of a 1000 ecm and harness on Greg's 750 to see if we can do away with our piggyback set-up and tune our 750 turbo bikes with stock ecu only. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Nitrous is simple from some perspectives, but the devil is in the details...you can put a "puff" into a motor without a lot of deep thought and get away with it mostly. The devil is in the physics..pressure drops, phase seperation and a host of other little gremlins you have to be aware of..and that is just the properties of the nitrous system itself. If you want to play the game, you better know the rules...a tuning error with nitrous is instantly damaging...get it wrong and parts go out the tailpipe...get it really wrong and parts exit the crankcase. Start with a very conservative low power tune and go up gradually...but be forewarned...it is absolutely addictive. I got to the point where I damn near ran myself broke going faster. you have to remember that when you add power, you better have all the mods done to the motor that it needs to handle that much power. Speed is expensive, how fast do you want to go? | ||
| Redbat |
Socoken, PM sent | ||
| Socoken |
Redbat, Thanks for the email. Here is what I was thinking. These bikes probably make 10hp more in cold weather than they do in the heat. How much different is it to add a little fog and fool the motor into making 15 or 20 hp more? | ||
| Firemanjim |
Nitrous is not fooling the motor and if it does not have enough fuel it will burn anything else--including aluminum---ask me how I know---- | ||
| Glitch |
--including aluminum---ask me how I know--- Was that the Down Under Disaster? | ||
| Fast1075 |
-including aluminum-ask me how I know- +1 | ||
| Socoken |
FMJ, I was hoping you would make a showing in this thread, I know you have a ton of experience. It would seem that I would need to relocate the IAT sensor so that the fog makes the ecm aware of the cold, dense air coming in. As far as nitrous making things go wrong- What worries me is that if it decided to preignite, that bang through the intake is aimed directly up into the rider, with only thin plastic in its way. Is there a way to fortify the inner airbox to contain a possible grenade? Carbon fiber? Wire mesh? | ||
| Firemanjim |
Not sure how much fuel just fooling the IAT sensor will add,be sure and get it dynoed to see if is enough.The Buells typically run lean and you need to be in the 12 range for a-fuel ratio to be safe with the nos. With a small dry shot and having it come in in upper range of rpm not a big chance of pre-ignition of nos. And be sure the nos is off before you hit the rev-limiter, that can cause nice bang too. Glitch--indeed it was. | ||
| Fast1075 |
It is amazing how violent a nitrous backfire can be....make sure you have a throttle activated switch that only lets the system activate at wide open throttle...nitrous don't much like part throttle. Do a leakdown before you do the nitrous...if you have any intake valve leakage, the possibility of a back fire is more likely...on the plus side...it will clean any deposits you might have on the valve face and seats....if the cylinder seal stays good, you will get better leakdown readings after a bottle or two of "juice"...dunno if you can integrate a window switch with the existing control system or not... I still don't trust dry systems...just my preference I guess... |
