| Author | Message | ||
     Buell101 |
Anyone know what the stock head gasket thickness is? | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
WHY? | ||
| Jdugger |
Decking heads? | ||
| Court |
The 2008 Service Manual doesn't (anywhere I can find) list the thickness. The only reference is in Table 3-21 Cylinder Gasket Surface Specifications which provides warpage limits for both the base gasket and the head gasket. If you get in a bind drop me a PM and I'll have one of the guys in the shop measure one.  | ||
| Fast1075 |
Knowing the installed gasket thickness goes a long way in setting up your quench clearance....too much clearance, and you waste power or set the engine up to detonate itself to death...too little and expensive parts get too intimate with each other. | ||
| Buell101 |
looking at some options | ||
| Anonymous |
Beware the cost of experimentation. Erik Buell Racing has already done the work to know. | ||
| Buell101 |
Been trying to work with E B R and get some direction/parts since 12/21. I'd like to take the advantage of only being 2 hours away but got the impression they are too busy... understandable. | ||
| Anonymous |
Have you contacted tech@ebracing.com with a specific written list of what you would like to accomplish? | ||
| Court |
You can do no better than the e-mail address provided. Calling is a poor option, showing up pretty much stops everything. It's a REALLY small group right now and an incredibly focused one. They are indeed "too busy" and that's a good thing. Be sure when you write to be very specific about your set up and what you are trying to accomplish. They've been through many iterations working on various racing configurations and there is great benefit to going with a proven set up. At this time they are also not configured to do custom or one-off set ups. But they do have a series of developed racing configurations. They're pricey now . . let's see what time and tide do to that. And . . for goodness sake don't take the "too busy" to mean anything other than they are REALLY BUSY. It's about the number of folks you can squeeze in a mini-van going from sun up to sun down now. Court | ||
| Buell101 |
Of course I have emailed and have had great conversations with E B R... Don't get me wrong I'm not questioning their integrity or dedication I know they're REALLY BUSY and I respect that which is why I am asking the question in the first place, which my engine builder asked me. Since I didn't know,the manual didn't say, and I didn't want to bother Erik Buell Racing more than I have, I asked here, why??? I'm starting to see why I shouldn't of. I've been in the racing atmosphere for a while, just not moto road racing so I'm a jr. member of the more money than brains club and I'm not scared of pricey unless pricey can buy a S1000RR. | ||
| Jgarner99 |
Why can't your engine builder measure an old one? He took it apart, right? | ||
| Puzzled |
Have you contacted tech@ebracing.com with a specific written list of what you would like to accomplish? LOL, several times here and still no response. Followed by a few phone calls and a third party visit, still no response. Started looking elsewhere for assistance.} | ||
| Puzzled |
Buell101 I have a compressed gasket here if that will help you any (if there is a dif in compressed/not). | ||
| Buell101 |
Haven't taken it apart yet... I am aware the price of experimentation, after all i have a stock race bike engine that is no longer being made so no one will make performance parts, beside an exhaust, and a race team selling the remaining parts but resources are directed to front race efforts and a new bike. Not feeling any love here either.. Puzzled: That might get him something to think about, I guess it's better than nothing... | ||
| Fast1075 |
The resources are out there...you just have to find them...pistons are easy..overbore gaskets come from somewhere. Cometic can (or used to anyway) make custom gaskets if you send them a stocker for a template. Ferrea, and Kibblewhite come to mind for valves...but one of my best vendors for valvetrain parts is A.P.E Jay and crew are top notch..I will never use any valvesprings other than theirs...there are several cam companies that can hard weld and regrind cam cores...the only problem with that is finding out lift, duration and profile info. In all reality, Erik and crew are most likely living on pizza and coffee getting ready for the race season...in the end it will determine if they flourish or fail. | ||
| Puzzled |
I am showing .030 for the most part all the way around the gasket. Safe to say it was .040 new? | ||
| Dannybuell |
This thread tells me that some people think that they are smarter than Erik Buell Racing. LOL! Would you want a NASCAR engine builder or the guy down the street to build your NASCAR engine? Reread the last sentence and substitute Buell for NASCAR. The highest level of knowledge, research and development for an 1125 is Rotax and Erik Buell Racing. | ||
| Puzzled |
The highest level of knowledge, research and development for an 1125 is Rotax and Erik Buell Racing. Undoubtedly, however when you can't gain access to that knowledge it doesn't do anyone outside of the person holding the knowledge any good! | ||
| Dannybuell |
Puzzled - That tells me that Erik Buell Racing is acting like HD using an old school tactic of keeping their proprietary knowledge close to their vest. most growth strategies involve sharing knowledge to expand your base. Educated consumers spend with out hesitation. | ||
| Puzzled |
I understand keeping some knowledge to themselves, thats not uncommon and I'm ok with that. In my case I'm trying to give them my money! I've sought out other vendors to acquire the parts for my build. It is unfortunate as I agree with you that E B R is THE authority on the 1125 platform. | ||
| Mike1125r |
Puzzled just ship your motor there and leave a detailed note 200hp send the bill when finished lol | ||
| Fast1075 |
No engine builder is going to give you their "secrets"...the liability is too great...and the REAL "secrets" are found by expending a lot of thought, work and usually money to find them. But most engine builders will either be honest and say "sorry,if you need to ask me how, you most likely won't be happy with the results" and suggest that you send them the engine or bike and have them do it.....OR maybe they will share a few nuggets like set the deck up at .XXX or take care to not set the lobe center on the exhaust cam higher/lower than XXX degrees....useful general info, but only to the knowledgable...in any case they only way you will get the "good stuff" from a builder is if he has the time, if he for some reason thinks it is worth his time, and if you "speak the language"...I have gotten golden nuggets of info from some of the best in the business. And got the complete cold shoulder from others...it all depends....call Al at American Sport Bike and he will help you all he can for example....but try to call Byron Hines and ask what he does to build his pro stock engines....he will tell you for around (insert unknown number of wheelbarrow loads of money here) per race, plus consumables and wearing parts, you can lease one of his motors that will go in the 6's if you have a good chassis, know how to set it up and tune it and know how to ride it....blow it to bits and it gets really expensive....oh and keep in mind if you crack the seals to see what is inside...the flop really hits the fling. The bottom line is racers are inquisitive, and always searching for the better set up...the only way to learn something is to sit at the masters feet or go on your own and break enough parts to learn how. I can show you how to get in the 7's....but not on an 1125..what works on the old dinosaur motors I used to play with largely will not directly relate to an 1125 motor. Hmmm.. .030 compressed gasket thickness?? If it was one of my old dinsaur motors, I would put the deck at -.008 and hammer it!...out of curiosity, what is the deck on an 1125? (Message edited by fast1075 on January 21, 2011) | ||
| Buell101 |
I would also agree E B R is the authority but Puzzled nailed it. The guy down the street is a "nascar engine builder".. he has AMA all over his resume. I'm just giving a nascar builder a ferrari engine and is my plan B. Mike1125r funny you should say that: Talked to E B R yesterday and told him I was dropping a race engine off on my to Milw. but haven't ironed out the details on price, he said he'd be there and didn't have a problem with it, hopefully that gets the ball rolling | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Erik Buell Racing is the answer, we got the DSB specs from them last year and shaved the heads and retimed the cams on our AFM 1125. But hind sight being 20/20 not too sure that was the way to go, as the heads are pretty thin after shaving. The shop or more correctly Jimmy and I now own one of the 1125 bikes available from Erik Buell Racing. It will be used for the Wed. Night Drags as well as Track Day Demos, so we are thinking the best bang for the buck will be to learn how to install and tune the Erik Buell Racing 1190 Big Bore Kit on a customers 1125. Terry -jtsperformance.com | ||
| Buell101 |
Terry- did you keep everything stock beside the shave? I would agree, There's no replacement for displacement" but unfortunetly I need keep to it under 1150cc to keep me in a class that has larger field potential so I'm looking to get more R's and a bigger boom with ti and a thinner head gasket, maybe a shave if possible.. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
No, the bike had everything allowed for the AMA DSB Class including the swing arm chain conversion with rear sets, GP shift kit, body work, rear shock and fork re-valve. The engine had what the class allowed which was the race exhaust and tuneable ECM then we did the heads and cams. About the cam timing, at first we got the specs from Henry Duga at Buell but before we were finished they were closed. So Henry hooked us up with the engine guys at Erik Buell Racing. They said a kit was being developed and would be offered by Erik Buell Racing and I would guess that by now it might be available. But again Erik Buell Racing should be you source and guidance counselor on such a project. Danny finished the year using out of the crate stock motors, that were just re-tuned. A work of caution they gave us was to watch the rev limit. It doesn't like to get over revved and has been known to break valves if it is. I have no doubt a well prepped race bike using a stock motor with ECM and pipe could win in the several classes is is qualified for. Just keep the RPM up above 6K and remember "Corner Speed, Corner Speed, Corner Speed" if you let it sing it will exit corners as fast if not faster than anything out there. I will end this with, just contact Erik Buell Racing they will be glad to advise or help anyway they can. That's their mission and they do it well. Terry - jtsperformance.com (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on January 22, 2011) |
