| Author | Message | ||
     Thepod |
I've posted here before with the same problem. Just installed and Erik Buell Racing ECM programmed for stock pipe on my 08 Lightning. The bike still surges especially at steady throttle, just like with the stock ECM, so it's unlikely to be fuel map related. I'm looking for suggestions on what to try/replace now. I've heard that perhaps changing 02 sensor, temp sensor and TPS may make a difference. Any thoughts? | ||
| Buellitt |
I also have an 08, bought with a K&N, special ops, under 3k. I added the ebr ecm for drummer (recommended by ebr) It surges and runs like a lawn tractor with a dirty carb unless under decent acceleration at any rpm, then it flies. I started with the stock ecm and had un-rideable back-fire issues. The only input I find is to use the ecm-spy program that I haven't found time for/still intimidated by. Would love to find a find a bolt on fix too since I never plan to find a track, but still like strong acceleration. I'll be anxiously awaiting responses to your issue. I'm thinking stock muffler and ecm. | ||
| Thepod |
I had the same issue with stock muffler and ECM. That is why I switched to the Erik Buell Racing ECM. It made no difference. I think I will try a new TPS. I have heard that that may make a difference. I will post my results. | ||
| Warbaby |
Welcome to the Erik Buell Racing Surge Club! My `09 Ss has a Drummer, K&N, and Erik Buell Racing ECM-for-Drummer. This is my second Buell XB and this one runs like a raped ape. It even barks nicely when the throttle is blipped at idle. The problem is...that from 1,900 to 2,500 RPM at steady, light throttle, it surges, hesitates, and spits--a LEAN SPIT that drives me nuts. I have sent a dozen or more emails to Erik Buell Racing Tech. They were very slow to answer but they finally had me remove my Iridium plugs and breather reroute which, as I strongly suspected, did nothing to cure the surge. I explained that the surge was unchanged in yet another series of unanswered emails. Some members seem gaga over Erik Buell Racing. I only wish I could be. (Message edited by warbaby on October 30, 2010) | ||
| Odie |
I know this doesn't ya'll out with 08's and 09's but the Erik Buell Racing ECM for my 12 pipe works absolutely perfect from sea level all the way to 5000'. Zero issues. No surging, coughing, sputtering, period. I would think they should be able to get it just as smooth on a new bike as easily as my '04. I would continue to contact Erik Buell Racing for some resolution. | ||
| Thepod |
It's weird because it surges with the stock EMC and the Erik Buell Racing ECM just the same. That's why I'm thinking it's not the ECM at all, and more likely a sensor. (Message edited by thepod on October 30, 2010) | ||
| Warbaby |
To their credit, I just got an email from Erik Buell Racing authorizing me to return my ECM to them for a no-charge "recalibration" that they say should address the problem as a result of refinements they have been developing. I will send it immediately. I have high hopes for the fix because the surge glitch is frustrating in an otherwise STRONG and RESPONSIVE map. I might even be gaga...  | ||
| Thepod |
Keep me informed, I would really like to fix this surge and if the Erik Buell Racing ECM can do it, I would like to know immediately. | ||
| Warbaby |
I'll post results after I install/ride with the revised ECM. | ||
| Grianp |
Please repost once you get the new calibration and run the bike for a bit. I went through similar issues months ago on my 09 Ss with K&N and Drummer. I got the Erik Buell Racing ECM and it ran worse than the stock ECM. Sent it back and got a new calibration and tried again, no changes. Needless to say, I returned the Erik Buell Racing ECM and have been running the stock one and have over 8k miles now. I've been worried about the lean conditions over time so I am thinking of possibly giving the Erik Buell Racing ECM one more chance. If they have all the kinks worked out by now I will become a believer as so many others have. | ||
| Thepod |
I emailed tech @ e b r and they got back to me twice today (Sunday!) about fixing the problem, I will post more when I try some of their suggestions. Very happy with the service, just hope the ECM will make the surge go away (Message edited by thepod on November 01, 2010) | ||
| Warbaby |
I got my revised ECM back from Erik Buell Racing and...it's perfect! http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.ph p?p=154218#post154218 | ||
| Xb1221 |
Next thing to do is for all to enjoy is the difference in the two maps....before and after. Beg, borrow or steal a laptop and get those two maps posted if possible. They would help all of us out. I'm leaning towards intake runner seals, but then again...? Could be a simple edit. | ||
| Thepod |
Yes, please post a difference between the two maps if you can. Tech @ e b r has been absolutely great in terms of getting back to me about my issues. They are pretty sure it's not the ECM and have given me a list of things to check. Directly from Tech @ E B R Intake leaks Poor chassis ground Poor sensor ground Erratic fuel pressure Plugged or weepy injector Muffler valve sticking/ not closing fully Weak spark: coil or plug wire Crank sensor (look he heat damage where the wires run past the header) Cam miss timed Leaky intake or exhaust valve Chaffing in the harness; area around cylinder heads is most suspect, but could be anywhere Suspension set up poorly. This sounds farfetched but we have "fixed" a number of different bikes with surging issues by adjusting the suspension correctly. The engine is quite responsive, and a suspension that causes the rider to pitch at all can move the throttle plate enough to cause the feel of surging. | ||
| Warbaby |
Sorry, I have no way to read or copy ECM maps. | ||
| Buellitt |
Warbaby : I e-mailed e b r to inquire about trying this map without response yet..any way you know of that I can reference your corespondence with them to have mine re-flashed with the same possiblility of happiness you found? I just asked if there was a more recent map for the drummer than my august version, along with my bikes details. | ||
| Warbaby |
My reflash was for a 2009 XB12Ss with a Erik Buell Racing ECM-for-Drummer/K&N. The only way I know to reference my reflash is to ask them for their "most recently developed map" (their words) for that hardware combination. | ||
| Warbaby |
I had a second thought that might help...Erik Buell Racing's Tech got the link from me above and read the thread about my excellent reflash results. If you reference that thread link, they should know exactly what you are talking about. This is the link again: http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.ph p?p=154218#post154218 | ||
| Pash |
Is it really a new map or is the closed loop function turned off (min speed for O2 sensor operation set to 8000rpm or so)? | ||
| Warbaby |
Beats me.  | ||
| Thepod |
Well, I just ordered a new O2 sensor. I will start there and continue replacing sensors until I find the root of the problem | ||
| D_adams |
If you're running a race ecm, try disconnecting the O2 sensor and take it for a ride. It should revert to the base map, which should be pretty good for a starting point and it's not going to hurt anything for a short term ride. | ||
| Thepod |
Ok, I'll give it a try. Thanks | ||
| Gringo |
where we at on all this? i had an 08 XT and it ran like crap. brand new it was no fun at all. traded it in on a dyna. then i got the buell bug again and bought a 09 XT. same bike different color. Guess i could mention that the fab date of the 08 was a month newer than the 09. Same bike. 09 Runs pretty decent, occasional spit or cough. NOTHING like the other one which was just plain dangerous to ride in traffic. But its still far from perfect, way far from worth 16k usd. oh yeah, do i need to mention it cost me a pretty penny to make the change? apparently there is some real magic in the supposed 2010 ecm flash. which is also apparently very un-advertised. my 09 has it. maybe thats what we should be insisting on. how to verify flash version in bikes? question we should ask is why does this happen? are these bikes just too sofisticated? they ought to run pretty damn good stock, forget aftermarket ecms and mufflers. that stuff is supposed to make them run better from good, not from just barely. i mean, what is the difference between an XR1200 Spòrtster and a Buell XB12? one runs like crap the other runs like a Harley Sportster. WTF? Personally, just from this problem and the inability to solve it, if i was "harley davidson", id dump buell too. I love my Buell but its like having a drunk for a girlfriend, you gotta have a little patience sometimes. | ||
| Thepod |
Well I changed the 02 sensor this weekend and took it out for a small run. I'm not entirely sure that it did anything. I will do a longer run tomorrow if weather allows and report back. It was very easy to change. Pulled the rear shock and unscrewed the fan. The O2 sensor was very easy to remove at that point. Took me about 2 hours of work. | ||
| Thepod |
The O2 sensor change did not help the surging. On to replacing the next sensor which I think will be the TPS. I now have a slightly used but apparently fully functional 02 sensor that is available for sale if anyone is interested  | ||
| Fast1075 |
This morning I took my 'Tard out for some fun before the oncoming cold front brought rain....I had forgotten what it was like to ride a bike with perfect fueling. No stumbles, sputters, surging or farts...just nice smooth operation. If it had the power, brakes and seat comfort of my XB...the XB would be on the block. I have replaced every part except the CPS...the E.B.R ecm made a huge increase in power...but it is still witchy and fussy anywhere besides WOT...it has been this way since I bought it, stock muffler, stock ecm....blah blah blah. Dealer says it runs fine...by buddies sportster runs "fine" with no drama, just slow as a turd... I found and repaired a couple of harness chafes...new tps...new intake seals...two different ECMs...new oxygen sensor...new temp sensor...no diagnostic codes, nothing. Runs good when you whack it....if it was a track only bike there would not be an issue... Guess I can change out the CPS and see what that does...I put the stock muffler back on yesterday to see if the GB replica pipe had anything to do with it...nope...it is just harder to hear the fuss with the more quiet pipe... | ||
| Thepod |
I feel your pain Fast1075, sadly that is all I can do. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
imbalance between cylinders. either front or rear is more rich than the other. adjust balance via dual o2 readings and poof the issue goes away. Not the first time I seen it. I can duplicate it as well. set one cylinder at 14.0 afr set the other a bit lean at 15.0 this will yield a surging feeling. Set both equal and it gets smooth. It doesn't matter if you set both lean or rich. as long as they are equal its good. you will notice Carbed bike with dual carbs will do the same when out of sync. same theory here. pretend the injectors are carbs. They must be balanced or it runs off just like out of sync carbs. Mike | ||
| Thepod |
Mike, wouldn't this cause surging all the time? My surging is just at constant throttle and around 4-4.5k. Or is it that I can't feel the surge when I'm not a constant throttle? |
