| Author | Message | ||
     Avalaugh |
When i first installed my Erik Buell Racing ECM a few months back it was good but didn't really believe the hype, but after a while i thought the bike had lost its ummphh a bit but i put it down to me having just got used to the smoothness of the ECM. Well it got so sluggish and under load and WOT it was hesitating heavily, i changed plugs and seemed better for a while but before long it was playing up again. This weekend i went out for a long ride over 350 miles of mixed riding with some mates. Both on 600's and could easily out drag me ? i had the standard ecm with me so swapped it out with the Erik Buell Racing unit and the difference was amazing. Bike was back to having loads of power. However, it now has a engine management light on, still runs great though, the light only comes on after a couple of minutes riding. And only with the standard ecm fitted. These are the codes and AF values      Any idea's ? i cant decide if its a fault with the Erik Buell Racing ECM or a faulty rear O2 sensor, any suggestions please. Dont want to waste Erik Buell Racing time if it's my bike at fault. | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
It might even be an intake air temperature error. the comm error is strange too, though the Erik Buell Racing ecm throws those on first startup. Very strange. Something is definitely up with your bike though if it is throwing codes without the ebr ecm in and dumping all of that fuel through the rear cylinder. you can always swap the sensors out to find out for sure! (Message edited by smoke4ndmears on October 11, 2010) (Message edited by smoke4ndmears on October 11, 2010) | ||
| Avalaugh |
I'll try swapping the sensors, the IAT code has been up since my accident, the Ambient temp works fine so i pressume the sensor is working fine. Is there a way to clear codes without doing 50 starts ? | ||
| D_adams |
Put the race ECM back on. Disconnect the O2 sensors. See if it runs ok or not. | ||
| Avalaugh |
Been out testing again today, with race ECM fitted and O2's disconnected, stills runs really bad if not worse and "no codes" displayed on the IC. Standard ECM in and runs great but still get the above mentioned codes ? The only one I'm concerned about is the AF ones as I think the others are related to when I crashed and the front fairing got ripped off, I had the standard ECM fitted and think they are just old stored codes! | ||
| Avc8130 |
Those other codes are common when reflashing ECMs I believe. ac | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Paul(Avalaugh), sure seems like something just might be amiss as my 1125R with free flowing exhaust, K&N and race ECM, the AFV's have never been off 100/100 F/R since its been in, now almost 7 months and never had a code yet. Sorry I can't help with the diagnosis though. Bob | ||
| Avalaugh |
When the race ecm is in i beleive the AF's reset to 100 F+R everytime the ignition is switched off, hence why it never throws any codes ? | ||
| Avalaugh |
Also with standard ECM in and O2's disconnected still runs great, but same codes ? | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
you reset your TPS when you swap ecm's? jt | ||
| Avalaugh |
Yes, TPS reads 2 with throttle closed and 100 @ WOT and cant remember the voltage but it was correct and the above openings. | ||
| D_adams |
AFAIK, the afv's never change on the race ecm because it's programmed not to change. They're locked at 100/100 intentionally. The comm error needs fixed first, it's a communication problem between the ecm and the cluster. Have the dealer look at it. I seem to recall hearing about some pins on the connector either pulling out or coming loose, however, I've not experienced this firsthand, so I don't know for sure. The IAT error is the temp sensor in the snorkel. Check it to see if it's dirty or the connection is loose/bad. Should read between 0-5 volts. This might be the root cause of your bike running crappy. If it's open or thinks it's "hot" the ecm will adjust fuel to match the ambient air conditions. The F-R sys error is your adaptive fuel values being spread too far apart. You've got an aftermarket exhaust on your bike and the computer can't compensate for the change. The exhaust shootout confirms this, pretty much any aftermarket pipe NEEDS the race ecm to run correctly. I don't care who makes it (any aftermarket pipe) or if anyone tells you different, the stock ecm will NOT be able to compensate for everything. I initially thought mine would, but it probably needs even MORE fuel than most, the exception being the Barker pipe and possibly the Drummer. More power, more fuel. The spread showing on your front vs the rear clearly shows this, the engine needs more fuel and it's not just a global thing. Some spots are probably STILL running lean, others are running way too rich. | ||
| Avalaugh |
If the IAT is faulty would the ambient temp still be accurate ? Also if we forget about the AF codes (which are my main concern) how comes none of the other codes show up on the race ECM, which is the ECM that makes the bike run bad ? I have no faith in my 2 local dealers at all so I want to get to the root of the problem with help from you guys and fix myself. I really think the IAT and comms error are just stored codes as no EM light has come on before this running problem involving the race ECM and AF's. | ||
| D_adams |
I don't know if the IAT will show good values or not, but I'd assume it may jump some or show a false reading at some point. The display isn't 100% real-time, so you might never even see it. If it's throwing a code for that, I'd look into either cleaning it to see if it works right or replace it. If it's faulty, yes, it could cause the bike to run either excessively rich or lean, depending on which way it fails. I am assuming the race ecm is programmed in a similar way to the stock one as far as failed components go and what it will do, as well as extreme temperature ranges and the adjustments it will make to the base map. The comm error is exactly what it sounds like, a communication error. It's just the ecm losing the connection to the IC, so definitely check the connectors related to both. As far as the other codes go, you won't ever get the ones pictured on a race ecm unless you get into it with someone else's software and jack around with it. I think that would void your warranty on the ecm if you did. I don't know why it would be running bad unless you've got something else wrong. Send Erik Buell Racing an email and ask them. They will have the definitive answer on what you need to do. | ||
| Zac4mac |
With the OEM ECM, you have a rear AFV of 136 which is adding a ton of fuel. Bikes runs well With the race ECM, AFVs are both at 100 and the bike runs poorly. Rear intake leak? | ||
| Avalaugh |
Thanks guys, ill throw an email to Erik Buell Racing after i have checked for a leak, would that be around the throttle bodies, the rubber booted area. I pressume it's sucking in alot more air than the front cylinder, hence the extra fuel being required. | ||
| S21125r |
"when I crashed and the front fairing got ripped off" Did that crash by chance take out the intake snorkel just below the fairing as well? If so that might explain both the com and the IAT errors if they are stored codes in the stock ECM. I agree with Zac, you probably have an intake leak on the rear cylinder that the stock ECM is adjusting AFV for. But since the race ECM resets it's AFV after every start it never gets to that point of 'happiness'. | ||
| Avalaugh |
The IAT was relocated before the accident into the fairing, so it got pulled off at the same time. Also once i had rebuilt the bike, the race ecm was fitted and the standard ecm has hardly been used except for 1 trip to the dealers for some warranty work, it did not throw any codes on that day and was swapped out again once i got the bike home, i also agree with zac4mac, it makes perfect sense. I'll update tomorrow. | ||
| Avalaugh |
Have just removed and cleaned the throttle bodies and checked the 2 small vacuum lines for splits, couldn't see anything looking like there being a leak present ? Too late now to test ride but I will run it up tomorrow and spray some soapy water around the seals too and then take it for a ride on Saturday. Keep the suggestions coming as I don't think this is going to work. Should it work, how long roughly will it take the AF's to sort themselves out on the standard ECM ? | ||
| D_adams |
Open loop learning is from 2500-6000 rpm I think. Best bet is 3rd gear, roughly 45 mph or about 4000 rpm for 2 miles to get it into the learning mode. It's got to be really steady/smooth on flat ground if possible. I don't know about the race ecm "resetting" back to 100/100 though. I'm pretty sure it's locked there and does not adjust around any. I've watched my wideband sensors through a wide variety of rpm ranges from idle to redline and it's fairly consistent for fueling every time. It's not perfect, but I'm still running their standard race calibration, not a customized tune. | ||
| Avalaugh |
looks like im in for a good ride on saturday then haha. Thanks D_adams for your help, are you in the UK ? was thinking about posting the race ecm to you, and if possible take it for a spin and see if it is ok for me. Had a look at swapping the O2's but mine is a '08' so the wires are different lenghts. | ||
| Avalaugh |
Been out testing this morning, lots of very very smooth gentle riding between 3-5 k for miles the AF's still the same ? Runs great with standard ECM but still same codes, under powered with race ECM. I have removed and cleaned TB's and injectors, checked for leaks and splits in hoses and all rubber joints. Voltages for both O2's in diag mode flick between readings the same as each other ? I'm now stuck ? HELP it's driving me mad...... | ||
| Avalaugh |
Oh and I have refitted The standard air filter and my bike has the standard exhaust fitted by the way, not the HMF I had on it early this year. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Have you tried calling Erik Buell Racing to see if they have suggestions? | ||
| Avalaugh |
I was going to try all avenue's before pestering them, they are such a small outfit. Just another thought, could it be possible that the valve clearances need adjusting, it's done 10k now ? clutching at straws..... | ||
| Zac4mac |
Most likely at this point, if you've ruled out any leaks is a faulty O2 sensor. They aren't real hardy devices anyway and our 08s have them a little closer to the heads than subsequent year models. Not so sure I'd use soapy water tho for an intake leak, I'd go for a long tube on a propane tank. Any rpm increase shows a leak. Even if you have to use a jumper wire, try swapping the sensors. Might be able to leave them screwed in and just switch the wiring. Good hunting Zack (Message edited by zac4mac on October 16, 2010) | ||
| D_adams |
The stock sensors are cheap, relatively speaking. Going to a wideband setup cost me just under $600, but it works quite well. | ||
| Avalaugh |
Want to sell me a rear stock O2 for an '08' bike  | ||
| Skntpig |
Swap your front and rear O2 sensors and ride it for a long time with the stock ECM. This will tell you if one is faulty. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I wouldn't expect any valve adjustment causing this. At 12k, mine were tight, in spec. 12k later, 6 of 8 were just out of spec on the tight side. So they don't wear very fast and short of breaking something, nothing in the valvetrain I'm aware of could move enough to cause noticeable issues. I have seen one picture of a broken rocker, so the parts do break, just very rarely. Try again to see if there's an intake leak, but use propane or ether(starting fluid) and listen for a rise in rpm. Soapy water is good for tires/tubes. Z |
