| Author | Message | ||
     Zacks |
I've been watching the (many) stator threads and the thing I can't find is what the proper design voltage of the systems is supposed to be when it's operating correctly. Lot's of anecdotal numbers though. Reason I'm asking is that starting last week my dash backlighting started flickering. Because of all the noise in my head from the stator failure files, I flipped over to the voltage and it was varying from a low of 12.4 to 14.6 (with stops in between) while riding down the highway at 70. I'm talking the complete range in about 1/4 mile. Parked after 100 miles the battery voltage (engine off) was 11.1. Also, apparently threw 3 codes and suddenly my AFV is running 110.5 front and rear on a completely stock bike. Ceramic coating the muffler doesn't count. | ||
| Usanigel |
To charge the battery voltage should be around 14.2 at most times. The battery is rated at 12volts but thats after losses to the chemicals and metals involved. Modern batterys are much improved to the point a fully charged battery with read 12.7 volts to be fully charged. It looks like you need the system checking out. Mine reads 14.2v all the time. | ||
| Daniii |
Mine varies from 13.7 to 14.2. I suspect a low voltage means a fried stator. But that's just my opinion, as expressing my observations has already resulted in ridicule from at least one member here. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Battery voltage should show 12.x with key on motor off. Mine is usually 12.4 when I turn the key on/engine off. 11.1 means something is wrong, either with battery or charging system. Daniii, people with brand new stators/bikes have 12.x volts at idle. How would you explain that? I think your wiring harness is not working properly. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Cruising between 50-70mph, you should see high 13's-low 14's. If it's in the 12's, then you've got problems. | ||
| Zacks |
EE by trade. In theory, a wet cell battery should get 2.2V. Meaning a 6 cell should (fully charged) read 13.2. Figured I had issues with either the VR or battery or stator or a combination of the above. Question was: what is the IC supposed to read under normal conditions? Bueller, that's what I was looking for if it's the design spec and not observation. I'm usually seeing low 13's most of the time with forays into the 14's and occasional dips into the 12's. Didn't know if that was a result of the recall 'fix' or an impending failure. Today, it was behaving and I didn't see the 12's. Mostly 13.7. Which will charge it, but after 50 miles, the battery (engine off) reads 11.5. Looks like I'll be having a conversation with the tech tomorrow. | ||
| Dannybuell |
As an EE you WILL know the BS when you hear it. I look forward to your update. P.S. do you have any opinions on the feasibility of mosfet VR's that have replaced the original VR's on some of these threads? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Different chemistry have different voltages. I think the stock Harley battery is 12.8 tops. | ||
| Usanigel |
Zacks is correct, a wet cell will hold 2.2 volts and X6 equals 13.2 but there is internal resistance to overcome, so we end up with 12volts. But modern batterys are better and we often have 12.7ish. To charge the battery you need more than 13.2 volts to overcome the internal resistance. Once you go below 12.7 volts your discharging the battery slowly. At the end of a ride the battery should be reading 12.7 volts. The system is a very weak setup, and has been patched with the harness "upgrade". As soon as the warranty is over, it's going to get very expensive for some. Crazy really because Harley has had fully working electrical systems for years. This should be easy to sort. For people to claim its not a big deal and ride at 5000 rpm plus is almost as crazy. These bikes fly at ground level, fun I know, but there are many times you have to take it easy. Should that mean the battery goes flat? Pull the other one! | ||
| Zacks |
5000 rpm - I know you're exaggerating for effect. But at the risk of hijacking my own thread, that's pretty much been my one complaint with the 1125. Can't run it below 3k or it sounds like it's going to come apart and that's barely into 2nd gear at 30mph. Combine the low end torque, throttle response and the wicked surge at that rpm and it's a handful. Before anyone gets upset and replies with the expected 'it's a sportbike' line, I agree, but it's essentially a 2 speed machine around town if you want to keep your license around here. | ||
| Dannybuell |
I posted on another stator thread: I have a sneaky suspicion that the stock ECM's are deliberately lean to force higher RPM operation. This is what the 1125 manual says about gear changes. GEAR CHANGE MPH First to second 15 Second to third 25 Third to fourth 35 Fourth to fifth 45 Fifth to sixth 55 Those are not 5000 rpm shift points are they? Can any of you shift at those points w/o lugging the engine or discharging the battery? I love the bike warts and all! (Message edited by dannybuell on September 27, 2010) | ||
| Froggy |
Yep, I usually shift earlier too, I tend to be in 6th around 50mph. | ||
| Jules |
With the "fix" in place it does tend to complicate the view of watching voltages. Mine's "normally" at aroud 14.2V when riding, although it does drop to 12.9V after a while but always pops back up to ~14V when on the move. Stationary at lights etc I see it slowly drop down (about 0.1V drop every couple of seconds) but as soon as it hits 12.9V it always seems to jump back up to around 14 again. Ignition on/engine off the display reads 12.4V but does drop quite quickly - i'd always assumed that's because of the draw created by the electrical bits 'n' bobs that are on all the time, so i never leave the ignition on for more than a few seconds without the engine running. I must admit I'd never really paid much attention to the voltage at idle (I probably ought to) but to me it seems my charging system is working as I would expect it to with the "fix" in place. I'm lucky in that I rarely spend more than 30 seconds at a time stationary on my rides, filtering is "legal" in the UK so i am always on the move (red lights excepted). | ||
| Zacks |
Here's another way to look at the question. Driving around, watching the IC volt reading mine wanders as described above. If in diagnostic mode with the engine running, it's flipping rapidly between something in the 13's and something in the 14's. Too quick to note the value after the decimal. So, what is the IC displaying in drive mode? Instantaneous (on what interval) or average (on what interval)? Also, I haven't been able to find a way to keep it in diagnostics mode once put in gear. Any help there? I'd like to monitor AFVs for instance at this point. And Danny, I read that in the manual as well. 3rd gear on mine at 25 sounds like a piston is going to ventilate the cylinder. Not to mention it's trying to throw me off with the surging. I dropped it off this AM at the dealer. We'll see what they have to say on all this. Gave them a written list of issues - more so I'd remember them. Service writer said they're probably going to be on the horn with HD today to figure it all out. | ||
| Zacks |
Dealer called. It's due for a rotor and stator R&R. Asked if they're checking the battery as well and that's a yes. Said that they're hoping for a Will-Call in Franklin tomorrow to pick up the parts at the counter and I should have it back on Wed if that's the case. Once I have it back - any tips on giving it the once over? Not that I don't trust mechanics, but there's a reason I usually do my own work. | ||
| Dannybuell |
there is a thread about correct stator nut torque.... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/589554.html?1282761156 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/595580.html?1285286443 | ||
| Daniii |
Another day of trouble free riding. Voltages between 13.9 and 14.3, from idle at lights to 80 mph on the freeway. As far as surging at slow speeds, the ECM reflash, done when the wiring was (supposedly, right Buell4ever?) done, seemed to tame the engine a lot. I just don't get any of the "you have to keep the revs up" talk. No, its not your father's v-twin. 80K miles on the V-Rod have trained me to run at higher rpm,I tend to cruise, in whatever gear, at4k rpm. Aside from a high voltage failure requiring a new voltage regulator (covered under warranty), I've never had an issue with this great bike. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Daniii, why is it so hard for you to believe that you have a bad relay or something isn't working right? I have verified that the wiring harness causes low volts at idle by unplugging it, not to mention my volts are 14 at idle until the bike is hot. I guess it's plausible that you have the only properly working stator any everyone elses is on the way out, yeah, that's probably it. You sir are delusional. | ||
| Brumbear |
I have a CR 5000 rpm's in 6th gear yesterday on th GSP was 82mph haven't got a clue what the voltage was | ||
| Daniii |
Well B4E, I guess time will tell. I guess I am imagining my voltage readings. Or maybe your stator is partially fried, my friend. But apparently putting out enough juice to keep you from discharging, at least if you keep the revs up. Good for you. My bike can apparently be run at any rpm without worrying about discharging, or low voltage (so far). Pretty messed up, I must say. Apparently all the bikes don't work the same. PS: The function of the wiring upgrade was to reduce the output of the stator by cutting out a winding (or a few), so removing it should increase indicated voltage, unless of course you have a partially damaged stator.... It doesn't matter who is right until the bike won't run anymore. Then the stator or VR needs to be replaced. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm sorry...I fail to see the debate. V, on a computer-controlled system, is constantly variable. There is no RIGHT or WRONG reading - there are too many variables at play. Keep the revs up, it circulates more oil around the stator and keeps it cooler. I can post the paragraph from the bulletin if you like...but it clearly states that low RPM operation can cause overheating of the stator. I don't care if you rev it up, or not. Just go RIDE the g'damned thing, and quit pissin in the wind here!  | ||
| Zacks |
Update from today. Stator is in, rotor is on backorder. Due to release tomorrow - we'll see. Then the check of the VR and battery to see if they were killed too. | ||
| Chameleon |
Is your bike stock? If I'm taking it easy, I'll shift when the first digit matches the gear, i.e. 20mph = up to 2nd, 30mph = up to 3rd, 50mph = up to 5th.
You must disconnect the VSS (Speed Sensor). It's the gray triangular plug under the seat. Here's a picture:  | ||
| Froggy |
Yes. Race ECM on it now, but even with stock I rode the same. | ||
| Zacks |
Ok, update: Got it back yesterday finished after dropping it off on Monday. Can't complain about that . Replaced the rotor and stator and apparently some oil since a quart is on the ticket. 2.2 hours. Hopefully, those last 2 will answer some questions that have been floating around. Also reset the codes and the AFV's back to 100. Results? NICE! I guess it had been slowly going to crap and it was related to a reduced voltage. AFV's were going high - running too rich and surging like you wouldn't believe. Now, all gone and it's sweet to ride again. Couple of things I did notice is that 1 stopped about 2 miles after picking it up and riding past a high school (as they let out) and a senior center. Meaning it's all real slow speed. When I stopped, the fans ran for about a minute. I realized then I hadn't heard them run on stopping for quite a while. Usually about 5 seconds and then they stop. Didn't check the CT, but it was only about 70 yesterday. After 20 minutes and another 2 miles, I was home and the CT was 187 and the fans ran again. Not worried about that at all, just find it interesting about the fans. Maybe an indicator? Like the reserve battery voltage is too low so the ECM doesn't run the fans with the engine off? Regardless, if I finish up the little house project today, I'm going riding to see. And tomorrow, it's going to get a work out. Overnight temps are supposed to be 30's, so that morning ride will have the vest and grips running. | ||
| Daniii |
Good news Zacks. I'm pretty paranoid about my voltage after blowing a couple headlights, and likely the Garmin (550, next day in the car, coincidence?). I keep the bike in voltage mode. Apparently with the high beam on, (and likely electric heated clothes) voltages can drop at idle when the engine is hot. Be curious to hear about your experiences. |
