| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
It seems that unless Rossi is up front , Rossi's fans do not like watching any kind of motorcycle racing. This race had 2 of the greatest battles of the last years....Spies/Dovi and Lorenzo/Hayden , plus an early fight between Stoner and Lorenzo . How come it was boring ?? Was it because Rossi was out of pace ?? This race cleared a few 2010 motoGP myths : 1. Factory Yamahas are slow......NO . Hayden could not get passed Lorenzo down the straight 2. Hondas are 15km/h faster than the rest .....NO . Dovi's bike was maybe 3-5km/h faster than Spies , but the Yamaha was stronger on the brakes. My theory for the myth around Honda's power advantage is Pedrosa's strategy . He seems to use a "100% fuel" map in the early part of the race , so that he has a speed&acceleration advantage to take him to first position so that he can build a distance , and then later in the race , as the rider chasing him gives up , he uses a "fuel saving" map to finish the race . Also his low weight helps in the acceleration and allows for better fuel maps for his bike. "Aside from Hayden's do or die overtake on the last lap, this must qualify as THE MOST BORING GP EVER!!!!! " Do or die ???? If Rossi had made the move , it would have been characterised as .."Great" , "Bravo" , "Only Rossi can make this happen" , I think that Yamaha is giving Rossi and his fans a valuable lesson .......Of course his shoulder injury is not helping , but many other riders had to ride with injuries. | ||
| Trojan |
Most of the international commentators have pretty much agreed that both Edwards and Poncheral had little choice but to team up again 2011, despite neither really wanting to continue the partnership. Edwards had made it quite clear he was about done with running around at the back of MotoGP and was happy to go to WSB riding for Ducati......... until they pulled out, then suddenly changed his mind and got all competitive again  Poncheral needs one experienced rider in his team to run with Crutchlow next year and took what was the only 'safe' option open to him unfortunately. The 'pool' of riders avialable and competitive for MotoGP is very small indeed if you want someone with experience, and the lack of testing has just heightened that difficult situation. Who else could Poncheral choose for his team with any experiance of MotoGP or the Yamaha M1? I have nothing against Colin Edwards but his sell by date in MotoGP is long gone. This weekend just showed yet again that he is no longer competitive in the class and his strange tyre choice for the race was a rookie mistake to make (a choice that funnily enough was only made by two other riders for the race, both rookies). I think next year he will continue to get beaten on a weekly basis by his rookie team mate, and I would rather see Colin retired and happily running his race school than miserable at the back of the MotoGP grid again. I think I must have watched a different battle with Dovi/Spies than some here. I never thought Dovi would be able to find a way past and keep it, despite edgeing past a couple of times, and his riding got more and more erratic to the point where I was just waiting for him to tip off somewhere. Ben did well to keep his concentration with all the ducking and diving though. However it certainly did little to enliven what was for the most part another processional race in my opinion, and the only saving grace was that a Ducati won and kept the title race at least mathematically open at least for another round or two. The sooner we get to 2011 the better | ||
| Gaesati |
I forgot to say "go the rat!" for the last race. But since Pedrosa beat Lorenzo this time around ..."Go the rat!" I bet Crusty has just loved the last few races.. I actually thought it was more interesting than the last few races. I was impressed by Pedrosa's recovery in turn one and his pursuit and duel with Stoner even if at long range( I'm sure Matt was distressed by Stoner's pace!) . Nicky's pursuit of Lorenzo was fascinating and a long overdue podium even if a bit later in the year than I had hoped for him. Ben Spies continues to impress about as much as Valentino doesn't. I hope that he, Valentino, recovers well from his shoulder surgery later in the year. Ben meanwhile is either overriding his machinery or has got something special since there is such a huge discrepancy between him and Colin and Valentino. Meanwhile, Moto2 resulted in yet another lap one multibike crash. This is too dangerous. A similar event at turn one or turn5 at Phillip Island could result in another fatal incident. It's not good enough to say that's racing when there is ample evidence of the same incident repeating over and over again under the same circumstances. On another note, it's good to see Colin being hired for another year, presumably, as a relatively low cost mentor and bike development expert for the Yamaha recruit production line. However, I remember seeing Colin race in his heyday in Superbike. It would be nice to see the texan win another title before he retires and get the extra dollars that a topline superbike contract would probably pay him. | ||
| Jaimec |
Vagelis: The Yamahas ARE slow. It's the RIDERS that are making them look better than they are. All the announcers commented that four of the five slowest bikes on the grid this past weekend were Yamahas. Lorenzo was so disgusted that I understand he stormed out of the paddock after the post-race interview. The only reason Dovi couldn't get by Ben is because Ben is so much better on the brakes and was able to make his bike "really wide" so Dovi couldn't get past (though he did a couple of times). Nicky timed his attack on Lorenzo perfectly, not giving him enough time to respond. Let's hope Yamaha comes up with something for Motegi... I shudder to think of that Rat Bastard being World Champion. | ||
| Xb1125r |
Nice going Ducati, spanking the japp bikes. I love when the underdog beats down on the big boys,lol Stoner and Nicky awesome performance. | ||
| Simond |
After Nicky "doing a Dani" on Capirossi last time out (and putting him in hospital) does that make him Rat Bastard 2?  Whatever you think of Pedrosa, he's on great form and looks set for a very strong end to the season. The power of the Honda really showed when he passed Spies - he did it on acceleration onto the back straight and was ahead long before the braking zone. Nicky looked really wild trying to keep with Lorenzo but that was an intelligent passing move on the last lap. Had he tried it earlier it wouldn't have stuck. I think Ducati have done well to stick with him. A slow 90 degree first corner so close to the start line is always going to be a problem - particularly with such a large field. First corner accidents in the 125s and Moto2 were inevitable. First corner aside, Aragon is a beautiful track. The helicopter shots were stunning. | ||
| Jaimec |
Simond: The difference is: Loris and Nicky are NOT TEAM MATES, and Loris is NOT deeply involved in the title fight this season. (Message edited by jaimec on September 20, 2010) | ||
| Gaesati |
"the rat" deserves to win a championship. He has a huge amount of talent but has struggled courageously with injury and uncompetitive bikes for a long time. In terms of generosity to other racers in his post race conferences he is approached only by Ben Spies. Having a quiet and reserved personality is not a cause for criticism. He races as cleanly as any other top line racer if not more so. In terms of team mates punting each other off, it happens, get over it. Criville and Doohan punted each other off when they were team mates. Nobody demonised Criville because of it. "Go the rat!" | ||
| Trojan |
Simond: The difference is: Loris and Nicky are NOT TEAM MATES, and Loris is NOT deeply involved in the title fight this season. When Pedrosa ran into Hayden in 2006 (by accident!) he was also in with a mathematical chance of winning the title that year too, so being a team mate was secondary to trying to win the championship himself att hat time. Also Hayden was very slow into that turn when Pedrosa hit him, so although Pedrosa was at fault very few racing accidents are ever 100% one persons responsibility. hayden hitting Capirossi at Misano was just a bad an error as Pedrosa hitting Hayden. The only difference was the team colours. I'm not a Pedrosa fan as such, more because of his lack of personality than his ability though, and I think he has started to show real brilliance this year. I hope he can take the title fight to Lorenzo until the end of the year just to keep the excitement level up as far as the dull racing will allow I love when the underdog beats down on the big boys,lol You may want to reconsider that when you know what the Ducati/Marlboro budget it compared to most of the other teams in the MotoGP paddock. Ducati ARE the big boys. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
If Yamaha is so much slower , why Hayden could not get past Lorenzo down the straight for 23 laps ???? I think that the journos and all the rest that were saying that Yamahas are slow , have been proven wrong in this race. Lorenzo seems to copy Rossi's theatrics . He keeps bitching about his M1 top speed . "The only reason Dovi couldn't get by Ben is because Ben is so much better on the brakes and was able to make his bike "really wide" so Dovi couldn't get past (though he did a couple of times). " So the M1 has nothing to do with Spies' braking performance.......Here we go again.....Our hero riders makes "magic" happen on his inferior&slow bike. | ||
| Simond |
I didn't want to re-visit the whole 2006 thing Jamiec - just having a bit if fun.......hence the . I really would like to see Pedrosa close the gap in the Championship to add a little life to the end of the season. Maybe Yamaha's engine situation will engineer a close title race. I can't remember from the commentary but aren't most of the Yamaha riders down to their last couple of engines? Surely that will only exaggerate the power difference as Yamaha riders will be using older engines, or have to reduce practise time. A few pit lane starts (+10 sec penalties) will make quite a difference. | ||
| Jaimec |
Vagelis: You know, at first I thought you knew what you were talking about here. Lately it seems I was mistaken. | ||
| Trojan |
The Ducati and Yamahas were similar in top speed at Aragon but the Ducati was slightly quicker. The Ducati was quicker out of the turns than the Yamahas though. The Hondas were just miles faster than anyone else in top speed. Dovizisio was his own worst enemy in the race and rode very erratically, which is the main reason he didn't make a pass stick on Spies. He almost ran off track 4-5 times during the course of the race, and evetually it was no surprise to see him drop it on the last lap. | ||
| Blake |
>>> budget is compared to most of the other teams in the MotoGP paddock. Pretty sure he is talking about the major factory contenders, Honda, and Yamaha. Now Hayden was going slow into the turn when Pedrosa took him out? LOL! The only factor in that incident was that Pedrosa was going WAY too fast and on just the 5th lap of the penultimate race with Nicky in the Championship lead. Mathematical chance? You mean if Hayden and Rossi hadn't finished either race? Lame. I didn't like Pedrosa before that incident. | ||
| Trojan |
I didn't like Pedrosa before that incident. I often wonder if the nationalities were reversed, or if Hayden had hit the back of Pedrosa, would you feel the same? It's racing, get over it. Pretty sure he is talking about the major factory contenders, Honda, and Yamaha. So am I. Ducati is the ONLY team in the MotoGP paddock that covers its costs purely through sponsorship (i.e. no factory money needs to be spent on the MotoGP team). This is something that even HRC can't manage and Yamaha are struggling to compete with the money spent by Ducati on development. Honda have already shot themselves in the foot for 2011 by contracting factory rides to 3 riders (Pedrosa,Stoner and Dovi) but don't have the money to run 3 factory bikes without farming poor old Dovi out to a satellite team. They were hoping the Red Bull would pay the bills for the third rider but that hasn't happened and is unlikely to happen at all now. Ducati were the only team in the paddock with the resources to afford Valentino Rossi, develop a new bike at the same time and increase their presence to run 6 bikes on the grid in 2011. That shows how big they have become in the MotoGP world and they certainly now outspend everyone except mayb HRC (and that will be a close run thing too). | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"The Hondas were just miles faster than anyone else in top speed." I used to think that was true , until we watched the Dovi/Spies battle in Spain. A bit faster yes , but not the way it used to be for Ducati in 2007. On the other hand Honda's screamer engine is not very good for tire wear at the end of the race , as Pedrosa have stated in his interview. If Spies shows to be strong on the brakes , which is true , a lot of it has to do with the setup of the M1. All the Yamaha riders are strong on the brakes. It is the design of the bike. I expect Spies to get very close to Lorenzo in the next few races. | ||
| Trojan |
I expect Spies to get very close to Lorenzo in the next few races. I don't In fact I think it will be 'business as usual' once we get back to circuits that everybody knows. Lorenzo will probably have to start to look after his remaining engine allocation soon but Spies is on more engines already than any of the other Yamaha riders as a result of his recent 'upgrades', so if anyone needs to start conserving Yamaha motors it is likely to be him (or re-use his early season engines that have not been withdrawn from the allocation yet). Rossi is in the best position 'engine wise' in terms of Yamaha riders, but it is likely that he will miss the final two rounds anyway so that he can get his shoulder surgery out of the way. If that happens then it is plausible (but unlikely) that Spies and Crutchlow could both move teams before the end of this season and complete the final two races in their new teams. One race is too soon to say of Ducati have actually found a decent base setup or just a good setup for the track last weekend. Hopefully they will and both they and Honda can push Lorenzo all the way. I used to think that was true , until we watched the Dovi/Spies battle in Spain. A bit faster yes , but not the way it used to be for Ducati in 2007. Dovi was quite a bit faster than Spies on the straights. He just messed up his corners so much he was coming from too far back every lap. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Ducati were the only team in the paddock with the resources to afford Valentino Rossi, develop a new bike at the same time and increase their presence to run 6 bikes on the grid in 2011. That shows how big they have become in the MotoGP world and they certainly now outspend everyone except mayb HRC (and that will be a close run thing too)." But they will no longer be running in WSBK. A big price to pay for signing Rossi. I just hope Rossi has a competitive bike to ride at Ducati from day one. Ducati said that they used a shorter swingarm and they changed a lot their weight distribution for Spain , and this major change made their bike a lot better. Yamaha did exactly that when they switched to Bridgestone tires, in order for the bike to perform better. Maybe Burgess gave his new team (Ducati) some "off the record" notes and sketches ???  | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm wondering (for the first time) if Rossi's glory days are behind him. It's not a question of age, more than it is his shoulder. It isn't getting any better and I understand that the surgery he's contemplating is VERY risky and may make matters worse. Ducati may've just spent a bundle on damaged goods. I hope not, but since no one else is putting this out there I thought I should... | ||
| 46champ |
It should get interesting by the end of the season. The hand grenades will start going off in the practice sessions. I hope one one gets hurt when the oil hits the track. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I often wonder if the nationalities were reversed, or if Hayden had hit the back of Pedrosa, would you feel the same? It's racing, get over it. Repeating, I didn't like Pedrosa before the incident with Hayden in 2006. I didn't like him when he was racing 250GP. I've never liked the guy. I don't hate him; I just don't like what he brings to the sport with his freakishly tiny size, his dry businesslike demeanor. Rossi nailed it characterizing Pedrosa as, "a little king". I like Jorgé and have liked him since seeing him in 250GP. Nationality has nothing to do with my like or dislike of any motorcycle racer. I didn't see the Hayden-Capirossi incident, so I cannot comment. I think the comparison is invalid due to the completely different circumstances. I don't hold a grudge against Pedrosa for a racing incident. I just note his extremely poor judgement at the time. He could have and almost did cost his team the championship. There is no excuse for that. REALLY poor judgement. Rossi gifted it back to them. Nicky's reputation or integrity, loyalty, and humility is solid and indisputable. He's well known for his integrity and his friendly demeanor. Pedrosa is not in the same league as a person from what I've seen. | ||
| Blake |
What is the deal with the number of engines exactly? Are the teams able to rework them or are they sealed? | ||
| Jaimec |
Six engines (Suzuki got an exemption). They are sealed from what I understand. | ||
| 46champ |
They are sealed once they pull it off the shelf put it in a bike and run it in a race, qualifying session, or practice session. Tell that point they can do what they want with the motors. That is why the engines used later in the year are making more power. | ||
| Trojan |
They are sealed once they pull it off the shelf put it in a bike and run it in a race, qualifying session, or practice session. Tell that point they can do what they want with the motors. That is why the engines used later in the year are making more power. Teams are though able to use earlier engines provided thatengine has not been 'withdrawn' due to damage or time/mileage limits being reached. This means that although a rider can have used his full allocation of 6 engines he can always use one of his 'old' motors at the end of the year. Most riders have changed engines at almost every session this year to maximise the potential for qualifying and race etc. This means that some have more engines left 'on the shelf' than others. Spies is in a strange position in comparison with other riders as he is already on his 5th motor this year but has not had any of his previous motors 'withdrawn' from his allocation. This can only mean that he has received upgraded engines during the year and they have replaced engines that have not yet reached their operational maximum use. At the tail end of the year we could then see Ben have to revert back to an early engine in oder to finish the year without a penalty (If you go over your 6 engine allocation then you get an immediate penalty of starting from the pit lane in next race). Lorenzo is also pretty near to his engine limit and is on engine 5 apparently. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
If Spies had an early engine , I do not think it would have been possible for him to beat Dovi in Spain. | ||
| 46champ |
I don't think having to use an early engine has entered into the mix yet. Last couple of races in the season it might. | ||
| Jaimec |
Oh PLEASE make it so!! http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2010/Sep/100923qaz. htm I would LOVE to see this happen! Get that jackass out of there and maybe (MAYBE!!) I won't begrudge the midget an occasional win... | ||
| Trojan |
Looks like it is all over for the 2010 World Championship....(from two wheelsblog.com.) The good news during the first MotoGP practice at Motegi saw four riders separated by only several tenths of second with Valentino Rossi taking the top of the time charts with a final lap lunge in the dying moments of the session. The bad news is that Dani Pedrosa, who was the only rider points wise that was contesting the championship title against Jorge Lorenzo crashed hard in the opening minutes of the session at turn 9 and suffered a 3 fragment fracture to his left collarbone, that will effectively put him out of the running for this weekend. Pedrosa, with all probability will also miss the Sepang and Phillip Island GPfs as hefll have to undergo surgery. With Honda Repsol rider no longer able to contest, this makes Jorge Lorenzo, at least mathematically this yearfs world champion. The Doctor who was afraid that all the right braking at Motegi would cause him more pain to his weakened shoulder put in 27 laps and with a best lap of 1.48174 on his final run was was enough to keep him in front of second place Andrea Dovizioso. The end of the most boring GP season I have ever watched (and I've watched a few!). Roll on 2011. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
It seems that 2010 was Lorenzo's years...All the stars were aligned for him. Rossi and Pedrosa , his main rivals , got major injuries. Surprisingly , Rossi seems to be in good shape in Motegi. I hope something "magic" happened to fix his shoulder , and he is 100% with no need for surgery. I look forward to his 1st Ducati test , hopefully Yamaha will let him test . |
