| Author | Message | ||
     Prs |
Hey all, I've never purchased a new bike from a dealer. I just bought a new car and was able to negotiate a price well below sticker + a good rebate. Do bike dealers give room to bargain or is it strictly sticker price? The '04s are looking good to me. Paul | ||
| Mikej |
Your experience will vary greatly from dealership to dealership and region to region. | ||
| Bads1 |
If your looking at the 12's NO DEAL'S right now.The price is the price. | ||
| Prs |
Anybody know of any good sources for dealer's invoice prices as opposed to MSRP? I figured the 12s would be hot sellers. | ||
| Darthane |
LOL...well, there's an abundance of H-D employees on this board, but I doubt they could give you that information. You're probably not going to be able to wheel and deal on an 04 until the 05s come out. On the other hand, you can get great deals on the 03s now. Bryan | ||
| Daves |
The last thing anyone(dealers or customers) should want, is to turn the motorcycle business into a clone of the auto business. Buying a motorcycle should remain a fun thing to do. Selling a motorcycle should be fun also. When it stops being fun for both me and my customers I will have to go get a real job! I spent 9 1/2 years and one day in the car business so I know what I'm talking about here. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center Waterloo Iowa Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Xben9r |
I hope you never get tired of this then Dave, cause I don't think I could handle the idea of "Dave Stueve, Male Prostitute".  Ben | ||
| Prs |
Hey Dave, buying bikes is fun but you can't blame a guy for wanting to save a few bucks when buying a new one, can you? I guess I'll be holding my M2 for a few years but seeing all the cool pics on this site as well as the 04 models, kind of gets the juices flowing. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
right on dave. I spent one year and one day selling cars. I've had more fun pulling hairs from my nose(ouch). some people want to save a few bucks thats fine, but as all things part of what you buy is customer service. I'd be willing to bet you can get it cheaper from so many others. But what happens during and after the sale. Mostly after the sale. | ||
| Prs |
Good point Buckinfubba but any dealer (car or bike) makes the bulk of their money from the service department and since I don't know what kind of customer service I'll be getting AFTER the sale, I prefer to not pay any more than necessary. No disrespect to any sales/service reps on this board but lets face it, a lot of dealers (auto) lack in customer service. I recently emailed about 15 car dealers telling all of them I was buying and would be an easy sale and only 2 or 3 even responded (they all had 'internet managers'). One just called me the other day, one month AFTER I made my purchase. Ya snooze, ya lose. I've only dealt with one HD/Buell shop since getting my M2 and they treat me well, I have no complaints (well, it can get expensive) but that forces me to learn how to do stuff myself. It is good to have a relationship with the dealer, though. | ||
| Americanrice |
UNFORTUNATELY, I sell cars and you don't even want to know how many times a day I hear "I am buying today" and then after they stroke you for a few hours, they don't even buy. Let me just fill you all in on a little secret, car salesmen hate selling cars just as much as you hate buying them. I am currently in the process of getting a new job because I have a short temper and don't handle pushy customers very well. Just do me a favor, the next time you are trying to beat up a car salesman over price think about how you would like it if someone expected you to work for free and kiss their ass while you are doing it. A pizza costs $10, why don't you negotiate and try to buy it for $4? It costs them far less than $4 to make it. All car manufacturers should go to the Saturn system and you would all have to pay full sticker. Then everyone would get the deal that they deserve! | ||
| Dynarider |
Just do me a favor, the next time you are trying to beat up a car salesman over price think about how you would like it if someone expected you to work for free and kiss their ass while you are doing it Its happening all the time here. Why do you think companies like snap-on & motorola are shutting down plants? Its because the consumer wants to pay less & the manufacturers want to make more $$ for themsleves & their shareholders. The manufacturers end up with competition that is able to produce a similar product for less money & its us here that pay the price by losing more & more jobs. I dont feel sorry for a car salesmen 1 damn bit. They play those damn games with you...let me talk to my manager, we arent making any money on this car, this promotion ends today so you had better hurry, we can only give you $1500 for your trade in...which they then sell to a wholesaler for $3000. Dont like the car sales biz??? Go work at McDonalds as a manager & all the prices are set in stone. PS..would you like that supersized for an extra 29cents? | ||
| Jim_witt |
Jeremy wrote: ...... just do me a favor, the next time you are trying to beat up a car salesman over price think about how you would like it if someone expected you to work for free and kiss their ass while you are doing it ...... Egads ... I've been doing that for years! Working harder, more hours for less and kising ass. That's the American way. -JW:>  | ||
| Court |
>>>Egads ... I've been doing that for years! Working harder, more hours for less and kising ass. That's the American way. I've raised it to an art form. I'll be in Washington Groups conference room for 14/day on Saturday and Sunday so someone else can get a $600M power plant project. I enjoyed it more when I was "someone".  | ||
| Buelliedan |
Jeremy, Please tell me where you work so I can be sure to never buy a car from you. I wouldn't want you to have to work!!! | ||
| Dynarider |
Tell me too, I want to go buy a car & see how far I can push a car salesmen until he finally breaks. Hell I will have the wife videotape the transaction & maybe I can sell it to Funniest Home videos. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
PRS Not to start an argument, But if you think we make more money in the service dept at a mc shop. Well you you don't really know do you. It may be the case in auto(they sell alot of those. But not in motorcycles. Heck half the people do there own service themselves. But like I said everybody wants to save a buck. But remember evrybodys got a job to do and familys to support and all that. Ok no arguments over this its a debate that has raged for centuries and it will never stop. Brian Tilley 704-872-3883 | ||
| Dynarider |
But buying a car sucks...its sorta like a chore. You need a car, but a bike is a toy a plaything. Buying a bike is usually an enjoyable experience that you look forward to. I have never gotten that BS..I have to talk to my manager crap...when I have gotten a bike. | ||
| Daves |
See what I mean? I think everyone in America should be required to work in retail for about 2 years before they can buy anything(I know, never happen) you guys that are slamming salespeople would have a whole different perspective on things if YOU were the one that went to work everyday not knowing if you'd make a dime that day. Dyna, Would you go to your job if the boss all the sudden said, well Dyna we've changed our pay plan and starting now if you show up early and stay late,past closing time with Jim Bob, his wife and 5 screaming kids, and the loan gets approved, probably not get lunch or if you do it will be about a 5 minutes to choke down some crap off the food truck. Now, at the end of the day if you've worked really hard, if the customer likes the stuff you made, and decides that today is the day the are going to actually buy some plastic, well then you'll get paid. I've never had a factory job, maybe that is how they pay the workers? Most people wouldn't go for that set up at all. That is why there are so few "good" auto salespeople out there. The burnout rate is higher than the turn over at McDonalds. The car business is the worst that I have done and I made it 9 1/2 years and one day. Mostly cause I'm a stubborn SOB and the money was good. But, I worked about 70-80 hours a week, had no life, no time to ride, an ass for a mgr who couldn't/wouldn't grasp the concept of "let me do my job, leave me alone", dickhead customers(mostly new ones, I did about 80% repeat business when the national average was 17%) I was good at it and I'm very proud of that. But I'd rather pitch shit at a hog farm for a living than go back to it. God, I love the motorcycle business!!!! Oh, and I didn't say anything about it being bad to try to save a buck or two on a bike deal. I just was commenting on the comparison with the car business. And how none of us should want that. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center Waterloo Iowa Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Dynarider |
Personally they could just do away with car salesmen entirely. Price everything like carmax does. This is the price & thats that, its like Walmart. Everyone pays the same for the same vehicle. Nobody gets better treatment because he is better at jewing the salesmen. Walk in, pick the color you like & drive away happy. Hell I did that with 2 cars I bought. I knew exactly what I wanted, I knew the price range & knew where to get em. Went in, pointed at the exact car & told the manager to write it up. Wouldnt even let a salesmen talk to me.  | ||
| Mookie |
dave, you need a hug. but i hear what you are saying. I never worked in sales but I was in the restaurant for 12 years and worked every aspect there was. at the end of it all i found that I have more faith in the general public when i dont have to deal with them. it sucks enough to have to deal with customers who want everything for free not to mention co-workers who have an end of the world issue everyday. i forgot what my point was | ||
| Glitch |
I think everyone in America should be required to work in retail for about 2 years That goes for working for tips as well... | ||
| Dynarider |
That goes for working for tips as well... No shit, waitresses have it a lot worse than any damn car salesmen. Hmmm cook screws up the order & who gets shafted on the tip? Bust your ass running around & hopefully the customer will leave you at least 10% not to mention the 15%. Then you get the guy who will sit & take up a booth for hrs drinking a stinking cup of coffee & then he leaves you a quarter. | ||
| Daves |
I always tip good to good waiters/waitress. Yes they get jerked around a lot too. Dyna, Did you have a trade in? That's usually where the most haggling goes on. Dave | ||
| Mikej |
Salesmanship games, they play with me then I play with them. Sat in one dealership for over an hour waiting for the appraiser to come look at my trade-in. Finally went into the sales managers office where the sales critter was discussing the local high school football game with him and retrieved my keys from his desk. They hadn't even called the appraiser, they just wanted my keys to ensure I didn't leave. Screw 'em. Get similar crapola at some computer stores and appliance stores and furniture stores and so forth and so on, including some bike/motorcycle shops. Went into one motorcycle shop here a few years ago (non-Harley) and started to feel like I walked into a late night tv commercial from the 1950's. Screw them too. In fact screw everybody. Yeah, that's the ticket, screw everybody. Wait, that's already happening, we're all screwed. Local newspaper had a story yesterday that the local poverty level was up 14%, worst it's ever been clear back possibly to the Depression era. No wonder used bikes aren't selling for much. Wait, my coffee is getting cold and I forget the topic of this discussion. "Nevermind" | ||
| Mikej |
Just do away with commission based salaries and a lot of the complaints will go away, or more likely you'll start to hear the management complain that the sales staff aren't doing anything except keeping their seats warm. As far as tipping goes just increase the staff's salary 15% and post a sign that says it's a non-tipping restaurant like some do, end of variable hassle. You could pay for performance and have salary scales based on number of sales or number of customer complaints or complements, but then less successful employees would complain that it's not fair that way either. Or everyone could just get a flat income nationwide regardless of title or job and everyone could just work at whatever job they like. Wouldn't matter if you were an engineer at a power plant or a doctor at a clinic or a burger flipper at BurgerKing, give everyone $1,500 a year for each year of their age and $1,000 a year added for each year over 20 years old. That'd be nice 'cause then I'd be making more than I am now. Shoot just give me $1,000 a year for each year of my age and I'd be getting a raise. I wonder what effect that would have on the economy, as long as you did some sort of job you got the same wage as everyone else. From kicking field goals to driving a garbage truck, one flat wage. Hmmmm, uh, er, wait, I think that's been tried and corrupted as well in some socio-political-economic systems already. Shoot. Okay, I'm done with this thread, got nothing more to add. Bye. | ||
| Kevyn |
If remember this correctly, the sign on the wall says; In business, you get what you negotiate, not what you deserve... When ever I forget that, I remember $324,000 with no commission from seller or buyer... | ||
| Henrik |
Did a stint as a deck steward on a cruise ship - boy did that suck. The Gremlins - eh, passengers - were horrible. And this was a 5 star ship = not cheap = wealthy passengers. Just loved it when some cheapskate tipped a buck at the start of a cruise and thought he owned you for the rest of the time. Nouvoe Riche were the worst. I always tip well unless I've actually been insulted - then a penny it is  Henrik | ||
| Prs |
Hey Americanrice, I know salesmen get jerked around and I'm sure it blows but to be honest, buying this car was the easiest, most hassle-free new car I've ever purchased and here's why: First, I educated myself on the make/model I wanted. I knew just how many were selling per dealer/per month and how that stacked up against its competition. I knew how much longer, on average, this car sat on the lot as inventory compared to the competition and used it to my advantage. I knew exactly what the car COST the dealership and not just what they PAID. There is a difference. Told the guy straight-up I was looking for a dealer who would accept a slim-profit sale and at the same time get old '03 inventory off his lot which costs his store money. I used a spreadsheet to list all invoice pricing vs. MSRP and made an offer giving the dealer 3% profit over the true cost to them (I deducted dealer holdback). A $1500 rebate on top of that and the deal was done. The whole process was smooth and easy. Did all my negotiating via email (I'll never negotiate on 'their turf' again). It was a win-win and maybe my slim-profit deal put him over a sales quota for the month??? Who knows? Once he knew I'd done some homework, he just sold me the car and moved on to the next deal. It was minimal work for him but a sale none-the-less. Again, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers but the truth is I don't have to buy a new car but the salesman needs to sell them to put food on his plate. If he doesn't want to play the game, I move on. I gotta keep food on my plate, too. | ||
| Prs |
Brian, no argument here and you are correct. I did make that assumption about bike shops based on how it is in the auto industry. I didn't factor that a lot more bikers do their own work. My bad.  But for those who say we don't negotiate for a pizza, or at the grocery store (grocery stores make roughly a 1-2% profit) have to realize, a pizza is not a 4 or 5 year commitment costing tens of thousands of dollars plus insurance, maintenance, fuel, etc. Big difference. Paul |
