| Author | Message | ||
     Whistler |
Anybody using this Dow Corning flexible protective product by Rukka? http://www.rukka.com/lfashion/rukka/rukkawww.nsf Click on Motorsport and then Protectors. Sorry could not get the direct link to hook up. | ||
| Wastegate |
The Dow Corner stuff is the same in the Motoport Quad armor. http://motoport.com/QuadArmor2 | ||
| Cowboytutt |
MotoPort makes the best stuff, hands down. I've had Wayne give me a tour of his shop more than once, and the second time took a friend with me. His product is so much better built than anyone else's its not even funny. The tricky part has getting a good fit from them, but they seem to have that well worked out now. My last jacket fit like a glove, and so did my friend's kevlar pants. Pay for the MotoPort stuff, you won't regret it. -Tutt | ||
| Ravnna431 |
Whistler, I picked up a one of the air mesh MotoPort jacket and pants and it is by far the best gear I have owned. Lightweight, comfortable and stronger than leather. You will a pay a bit more, but in the long run it's well worth it. Let alone the exceptional customer service and willingness to answer questions. I went with the standard armor instead of the quad armor and it feels great. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Their armor looks like really good stuff, but I don't see any products available in leather. Yes, high Denier Cordura has amazing test results, but its real-world performance is not as good as leather. We have not yet been able to synthesize a fabric that provides the abrasion resistance of leather that also slows the wearer down during a slide- that's the difference between textiles and the real thing. Neither textile nor leather provide impact resistance, that is why armor is important. It's how the gear protects a body when sliding down the road is what differentiates leather from textiles- and leather is still the best material out there. When there's something better than leather available you will see it first on the people who risk their skin for a living- racers. Know of any professional racers wearing anything other than leather? | ||
| Jng1226 |
Rebuelljunkie - you make some good points, however I disagree with the last statement. Professional racers are paid big $$$ to wear leathers. At any professional level it is all about marketing products, that's why modern racing exists. Its well known that small mom-and-pop companies like Syed and Pilot make excellent custom-made/fitted leathers. However, at the top level of racing its all Alpinestars/Dainese/Arlen Ness/etc. because these companies spend marketing money to have the top guys representing their products on TV and in magazines. Supposedly, Dainese's D-Stone textile fabric has been proven to be more durable than leather, and some of their top end suits use a significant amount of the stuff. Yet it is indeed hard to change the mindset of cow leather being best because of its history. Kangaroo leather is making some inroads as being more abrasion resistant, but it is more expensive and supposely once it does tear, it tears quicker than cow leather. In the end, leather is the least expensive suit material because of the industry that produces it. There may indeed be better man-made or natural options (stingray as one), but the cost has yet to make it a viable market alternative. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
Interesting comments about textiles not slowing the rider down. Never heard that before. One other thing about MotoPort, Wayne has a policy of reparing or replacing his kevlar gear for FREE after a crash. I don't think you will find that with any leather suit. -Tutt | ||
| Whistler |
Thanks everybody. What interests me about the Dow material is that it is suppose to be soft, flexible, and breathable until it makes contact with something and then it hardens up to protect like armor. Dow's name for this stuff is Deflexion. On their web site they use a comparison of typical hard plastic type soccer shin guards vs. soft and pliable Deflexion shin guards. Sounds interesting and motor sports seems like a good fit for the product but I've never seen it in action. | ||
| Pariah |
Motoport (Wayne) really does stand by their products. They do only replace the gear (for free) if it's beyond repair, but repair rates are very reasonable, and his company is very quick about getting the job done. I know this firsthand. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
By the numbers, synthetic fabrics appear to be better than leather (skin), regardless of whether it's cow, kangaroo, stingray or other. But testing a material's properties on a machine does not provide the whole picture of what it takes to protect a human body during a slide down the road. Sure, synthetics can be more abrasion resistant, more tear resistant, and more wear resistant, but they do not provide what natural leather does- the best combination of protection. There are many factors involved with protecting the human body from injury during a slide, but there are a few where leather is plainly superior. Abrasion resistance has two aspects- external and internal. It is as important for a material to provide protection to the skin touching it on the inside as it is to keep the wear on the outside. Leather causes less injury to skin from internal abrasion than synthetic materials. An example is when a rider slides on pavement and the material does not tear or abrade through, but they end up with burns/injury anyway- this is internal abrasion and is more common with synthetic materials. As mentioned above, leather has a special mix of "friction and slide"- an attribute that allows a fallen rider to be slowed down, but not grab with enough force to increase injury potential. Synthetic materials tend to be quite "slippery" and do not aid in slowing a rider down. Additionally, a large percentage of synthetic material will melt from the friction generated by a slide and cause burn injuries on top of any abrasion injuries. One of the most important aspects of protection is how well the safety garment fits (conforms to the body). In order for the impact protection (armor) to work, it needs to be held in place. Also, internal abrasion is reduced when the garment does not move around on the wearer during a slide. Leather is the best material we have when it comes to form-fitting the wearer. One of its most notable properties is how well leather shapes itself to the wearer, and this combined with all the other safety benefits is why it remains superior to synthetic materials for motorcyclists. I have no doubt that marketing plays a major role in the choice of leathers by professional racers. Since these companies want to showcase their best products it would seem logical, however, that they would pay the most to riders who wear their highest-performing garments. The pros are still wearing leather, and I highly doubt it's due to the political clout of the IHATIS (International Hide and Allied Trades Improvement Society). Beyond the marketing aspect is the safety rules of the governing bodies of the assorted racing organizations. These governing bodies make and enforce the rules about the minimum protection levels for all participants, and I have yet to go to a race where anything less than leather was acceptable. If there were a breakthrough synthetic material that was superior to leather we would all know about it, and every professional rider would be being paid to wear it. That's all I'm sayin... Edit- I am quite impressed with armor mentioned above, and would be very interested in it being made available in leather garments- that should create the best of all available options for protection. (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on August 14, 2010) | ||
| Freight_dog |
If only Motoport made gear that LOOKED like race gear instead of BMW geek cruising gear. | ||
| Jng1226 |
Again, an extremely well-stated position. I agree with everything you're saying. My point was that economics drives all markets and while something may exist (synthetic or natural) that is better than what the current standard is, it may not be a cost-effective option. I'm all about protection but if a suit was $8,000 it would be out of the question considering the available options. Back to the original thread, I have several suits including Dainese, Spidi and Alpinestars. Last year at a track day I crashed in the Alpinestars SP-1 and was less than impressed with its protection for a $1,000 retail suit. So I bought a new suit from an ex-racer who started his own company. His supplier is out of Pakistan but makes the suits to his specifications. Great value with good leather, excellent armor and a unique warranty: If you wreck in your suit and it fails, you get a new suit at cost. Not bad for around $550 with options (external hard armor with air scoops that work, kevlar thread, large hump, leather name lettering): http://trackskinz.com/TrackSkinz/TrackSkinz.html    | ||
| Pariah |
Just a minor deviation from the thread to address a point regarding synthetics versus leathers. I feel that the adoption of leather has to do with more with prevailing opinion and style than actual facts. I do not think the "internal abrasion" with Motoport gear is worse than leather. I have crashed in Motoport gear wearing a t-shirt and had only minor skin abrasion on my elbows after sliding on them for 40ft at an initial speed of about 40mph (estimated). If I had been wearing a long sleeve shirt, I doubt that I would have had any skin abrasion whatsoever. My Sidi race boots have no leather on them... it's all Lorica, a synthetic. The future is synthetics. | ||
| Jng1226 |
Pariah - that further reinforces the point I'm making. I also love my Sidi Vortices and Dainese Torque Out boots, not a stitch of cow. But, at $475 a pair, imagine what an equivalent race suit would cost made out of the stuff... | ||
| Pariah |
Well, the Motoport suit is about $1000, and I honestly feel it is at least equivalent to a leather suit in function. Maybe a Lorica suit would be astronomical in price, so your point is well taken, although I wonder if Lorica can be made supple enough (maybe it only works on a rigid frame?). Stylistically, the Motoport is not a leather suit, being a bit more baggy, and I think that's the primary turn off for people who really want to "look" the part. But it's made in the USA and looks and works better (in the heat) than an Aerostich. Totally underrated, I feel. | ||
| Jng1226 |
I'm definitely going to have to look into the Motoport jackets. Thanks for all the info. A loyal customer base says the most about a product, IMHO. | ||
| Pariah |
Cool Jeff... as the ICON folks say, RIDE AMONG US!  | ||
| Ravnna431 |
Their pretty flexible in changing appearance...MotoPort that is.   | ||
| Cowboytutt |
I've had two suits from Wayne over the years. The first was the ballistic nylon suit. Used that for years with the Gortex/Thermoloft liners and original armor. The hospital emergency ward had to cut that coat off me, thus destroying it, before I went looking for another suit (Wayne did not have the repair guarantee at the time. That was many years ago!) I went with the Air Kevlar suit. After having a delux tour of his facility in San Marcos, CA, he explained all the pros and cons of the different materials. The Air Kevlar material usually needs some repair after one crash. The Stretch Kevlar is more durable and the racers who use it only come in after 2-3 crashes. His new armor is far superior to anything on on the market. He took some competitors "hard shell armor" and his new armor, put it over a door frame edge, and had us pound on it. The hard shell armor transmitted a lot of shock and really hurt. His new upgraded armor really disappaited the shock FAR more, and he made a believer out of me and my best friend. Also, all of Wayne's suits are designed to not slip off, with jacket to pants zippers, and strong fasteners and stiches. The internal friction or melting phenomenon you mentioned comes from the use of polyester which is cheap and has a very low melting point. Its why you see it in so many less expensive suits like Joe Rocket and the like. Wayne doesn't use anything that can melt on the skin due to friction. A very good discussion though, and I've been enjoying the information. -Tutt | ||
| Guard_rail |
When I first started riding, I wore leather and it saved my life cause I didn't know how to save it myself! Then I got better and I wore mesh! NOW after only riding for a total of 13 month total my whole life, when I get on my bike I wear nothing but some boxers....cause the d@mn bike doesn't F'n work. Can't get hurt if the bike don't work. | ||
| Jng1226 |
Very cool. I assume you put on those patches? So does that jacket have flow-through ventilation like a conventional mesh-type textile? | ||
| Ravnna431 |
yes there is some serious air flow through this coat without the liner in. I also purchased the non winter liner and it works great down to about 50*F. I've been wearing this thing in Ohio and the temps have been ranging from 80 to mid 90's. Superb even in standing traffic at 85*F. 90*F it gets warm, but not anything like leather. |
