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F_skinner
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 02:52 pm: | 
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So, what did you do to the Uly??????
I think I left it on the Uly, take a look at your vent valve assembly... You do remember selling me a couple of those to test, correct? I did the same mod to the 1125R but took it off before I sold it to Mike since I think the flat-landers do not have as serious problems as we do at altitude.
(BTW: I discovered a better way to do it so do not replicate that one)
Frank |
Dms
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 04:17 pm: |
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Zac, currently I'm running the E B R pump gas ECM, a Barker exhaust and ceramic-coated headers. The bike's running 15-20F cooler with the new ECM, but I still get fumes and boiling fuel on 85+F days. Before the new ECM, it'd boil after every ride even with an almost-full tank and make the garage smell like an explosion waiting to happen. (And yes, I know the difference between the Holy Scent of Motorsports that my other bikes produce and the 1125R house-filling stank.  )
I pulled off the seat last night to check on the source for the dripping fuel, but wasn't able to figure out where it was coming from without doing more surgery. This weekend I'm going to pull the bodywork off, open up the service manual and start following the hoses until I find that pesky drip. I'm half afraid that I'll find the charcoal can's full of unburned gas!
At some point I need to drop the engine and install some heat tape along the inside of the frame. Putting on the ceramic-coated headers was nearly at the limits of my mechanical ability, so the heat shield will probably have to wait until winter when the bike can be out of commission for a while. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 02:48 am: |
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Thanks Zac4mac and Stimbrell I appreciate your comments. I have an engineering backgroud....drag-raced in the late 70s, and owned two Bike shops, and tuned many race engines for others......I try very hard not to give bad or un-sound information. Using math its easy to calculate the amount of air moving through the airbox at any rpm based on the bike standing still. It is a little trickier to calculate the air flow at very high speeds when the airbox can move to positive pressure but for most of us on the roads this is momentary compared to the majority of running time. See how little effort is required to suck liquid up a straw......let alone air!! |
Dcmortalcoil
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 09:16 am: |
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Trafford,
What's the weather like where you live? How hot does it get? Have your radiator temp gone up 200+?
I have no issue with fume until the bike runs 200+ prolonged period. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 02:15 pm: |
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Dcmortalcoil- I had the boiling in the Spring in chilly northern Europe...thats when I went to an Erik Buell Racing ECM , calican and Frame insulation after that its been fine. Here its now a hot summer (79-85f)and no boiling or fumes. The bike coolant temperature has never been over 81 degrees celsius ( 177.8 Farenheit)and that was waiting at lights. Usually between 76-78 (169f). In the spring it was 72-74 (166f+)
Its still cooler here that you guys are used to but I can't control that....hahahah |
Dcmortalcoil
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 03:53 pm: |
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That's what I suspected. You are in a cooler environment. I had no problem with my bike in March-April when the temp was relatively cool.
At 100 degree F air temperature, you will experience something very different. The amount of vapor that it will produce is something else. I have another (new) CR with no mod of any kind. You can see the stream of vapor shooting out through the tube. The vapor stream lasted for more than an hour after I shut the engine off. Outside temperature high 90s. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 04:03 pm: |
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Thats what I experienced too....thats why I did the mods.Remember one very important thing. In my part of Europe fuel is pure. In the US I believe it is blended with Ethanol. This can affect the fuel behaviour and the relationship to temperatures |
Syonyk
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - 04:24 pm: |
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At 100 degree F air temperature, you will experience something very different. The amount of vapor that it will produce is something else. I have another (new) CR with no mod of any kind. You can see the stream of vapor shooting out through the tube. The vapor stream lasted for more than an hour after I shut the engine off. Outside temperature high 90s.
Very much true.
I commute, and in the summer will see 100+F ambient temperatures, hotter on the road due to the pavement radiating heat, and stop and go traffic (due to idiots crashing into each other).
If I'm stuck in stop and go on the way home, the bike is terribly ill-behaved.
I'll see coolant temps into the 220s, which means I *will* piss coolant out the overflow tube when I shut down (it fills the reserve tank and then overflows). The frame will be too hot to touch, even on the Gripsters. And I *have* frame insulation. The fuel (ethanol blend, screw that ****) will be boiling rapidly, venting as much as it can out through my vent tube. If I pull the cap, I get a column of fuel vapor coming up, and can watch the fuel boiling if my tank is full. If I don't pull the cap, I'll be venting fuel vapors for 20-30 mins, at least. I've semi-jokingly considered running that to a flare stack on the back of the bike, I can park it, light it, and be more environmentally friendly than just venting gas vapors.
If I park it at home, I turn my swamp cooler on high (sucks in outside air, cools it with water, and brings it in), open my house to garage door, and leave my garage door open a crack. If I don't do this, I'll either stink up my whole house, or blow up my garage (the water heater is in there) - not sure which would happen.
These bikes really are rather miserable and terribly badly behaved in the heat. |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 03:28 am: |
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When I first got my bike it would boil fuel at slow speeds (not stop & go even) at 85F and give me the CEL. But after that second or third reflash that cooled the 08s down the bike would not boil fuel until mid 90s temps.
Then I drained much of my coolant and replaced it with water and water wetter. Now running at about a 80/20 coolant mix there's no serious boiling or a CEL unless it's 100 plus or I'm moving really slow for quite a while. 80/20 will protect through the winters here just fine.
Otherwise my 08 is stock.
I think I'll try moving the line from the intake to the airbox one of these days. That would likely solve the last of my issues.
And maybe a ecm change someday.
I have thought of adding another scoop in the front by the intake to direct air up over the front head to cool the airbox/fuel frame area. I doubt it would have to be very large to make a difference at slow speeds but it wouldn't do squat when not moving of course.
I've also thought of placing diverters over the radiator fans to blow the air up the sides of the front jug to up under the airbox to break up that super hot air pocket. That would work when not moving but who knows where all that hot air would come out. It would be best to draft it back over the hugger with a fan but there's not much room there,
I haven't had the time to play with these ideas. |
Greenflash
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 05:34 am: |
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I have two 1125s; a CR in Florida and an R in Vegas. I've been in Las Vegas for a few months, and the daily temps here for th last week have been 105-108, 5% humidity. I've owned 4 Buells, and all have been less than comfortable in hot weather whan compared to my Ducatis (999, ST4). The 1125s are probably the worst with the frame heating and other issues (ie, my S3 just toasts the right ankle with its headers). My 1125r does have the latest flash and the cali can. I've never had a bike where the water temp wouldn't drop to the 180s at speed (Ducatis run hot but always cool when up to speed). I've been seeing 205 CTs at 70 mph. The heat radiating from the road here when it's 108 probably raises the temp, and ATs will usually hover at 111. I know I'm a lot cooler mountain biking or hiking here than I am riding the Buell!
Anyway, the fuel here does contain ethanol, altitude is over 2000, and the fuel boiling I've noticed lately is more extreme; if I remove the cap, it actually begins foaming up to the lip (I quickly replace the cap when this happens).
I have some other problems too (the well-known clutch leak, waiting a month for parts) but I will say that really hot weather riding is a challenge and I would like to improve that since Vegas isn't getting cooler for a while. I tend to stop often to let the bike (and maybe the stator!) cool. Wearing riding pants instead of jeans is a must.
I gather from other threads, that I could purchase more stock frame insulation (Pyrogel) from Aspen Aerogels. I wonder if it can be applied without too many gymnastics like moving the engine in the frame. Has anyone done this? Cost?
Thanks! |
Trafford
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 07:48 am: |
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I insulated mine without moving the engine.....I used a cooking spatula to assist and it worked great
(Message edited by trafford on July 01, 2010) |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 08:25 pm: |
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I believe the canister is there to provide air TO the tank to break a vacuum while KEEPING fumes from the atmosphere. Porting the tube to the intake appears more to be a place for overpressure fumes to go and be burned than to "draw" out the fumes. There should be a fair amount of vacuum relative to atmosphere under the filter at any time the engine is running and any speed the bike is moving. I would think it's unlikely that ram air would provide positive pressure under the filter. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 08:48 pm: |
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Trafford - would you please elaborate on your process of insulating the frame in a new thread?
i am sure that there is enough interest for this subject to take off on it's own.
materials involved; cooking spatula, adhesives, ...
THX
(Message edited by dannybuell on July 02, 2010) |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Friday, July 02, 2010 - 11:30 pm: |
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Those with the canister who feel that they still have too many fumes coming off the bike may have a bad canister. It has a hole in the side opposite the hoses for the air to enter to get to the tank so there must a check valve of some kind. If it's blowing fumes when the tanks under pressure (boiling fuel) that valve is likely bad.
(Message edited by unibear12r on July 02, 2010) |
Trafford
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2010 - 01:31 am: |
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Dannybuell- I will write about the frame insulation after I get back from holiday 12th July. |
Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:16 pm: |
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I finally got around to calling Harley to ask about them covering the Cali can under warranty. The Harley rep I spoke to said that they were not authorizing the Cali can as it is not a test or proven method to resolve the gas smell or fuel vapors. That sounded a little strange to me but they did say that they would authorize having the frame insulated and gave me a reference number for that.
I called the dealer to ask if they were up for the task and the service manager said that they hadn't gotten that far into a Buell. I asked him if he recommended that I check with another dealer that had more experience with installing the insulation and he said yes.
Fortunately I have a $75 gift card for this dealership so I'm going to use that to purchase the Cali can and hoses and install them myself. (They quoted me $45 for the Cali can, so with the two hoses and shipping, I'm sure it will be under $75.)
In the meantime, I'm going to check with the next closest dealer (two hours away) and see what they think about doing the frame insulation. |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 05:53 pm: |
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Proof that my Cali-can works!! I put it in the hall of my open-plan house.......no smell.
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Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 01:12 pm: |
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yup it works plane and simple i wonder who you were talking to at harley. so far as i can tell there is only 1 maybe 2 taking calls for buells specifically so i wonder if you got mis-routed somehow? they just gave me the cali can under warranty last month |
Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 03:17 pm: |
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The guy I spoke to at HD was familar with the issue and explained to me that it wasn't gas that was coming out of the overflow but condensation. I got the impression that he had either dealt with this issue previously or been recently briefed on it. Anyway, I just ordered the parts which came out to $75 and change. I figure I probably won't have a need to buy anything else from the dealer so I might as well make surethe gift card doesn't go to waste.
If anyone else does get Harley to approve the charcoal canister, please post up. If you can pass along the name of the rep, that would be sweet. |
Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 01:25 pm: |
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Here's a link to a more recent thread with two guys who say they have problems:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/582825.html?1280152246
When my carbon canister arrives, I'm going to run the vent hose to a spot in the middle of the airbox, not to the front cylinder. Hopefully that will avoid these issues. |
Ratgin
| | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 06:26 pm: |
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I found it fixed the smell but holy hell my left leg/ass was HOT. Bike was very hot on the left side.
I figure i could have roasted a turkey by strapping it to the left side of the bike and riding for 30 mins.
(Message edited by RATGIN on July 26, 2010) |
Trafford
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2010 - 03:55 am: |
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There is no connection between the catch-can and the heat!! Insulate the frame, use Tunerpro to flash the ECM to increase fuel, or get a modified ECM from a seller..... or don't ride on hot days (LOL)...... |
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