| Author | Message | ||
     Thurstonbuell |
Chevy , did they confirm the "half" cover gave improved results ? or just that was what they were trying ? | ||
| Highscore |
I appreciate the ingenuity here to find solutions for more air. The air box of a motorcycle does not calm the air at the intake. In deed it acts as a resonance chamber, similar to the sound box of a violin or guitar, which "tunes" the "tone" of the engine, which means here the wave action for its gas exchange. The crucial zone or "time window" is the valve overlap, the period, wherein intake AND exhaust valves are open at TDC. Therefore also the tune and wave timing inside and by the exhaust system has a huge effect on the engine´s "tone", which is in other words its charge efficiency. There are so many HP-ratings around here for the Helicon engine. What is the real one? The deepest number? Well, there is one HP-number around, which is official. This is the number of the vehicle´s registration as a public document. At least in Europe, if an engine missed this number for more than 10%, manufactures run into serious legal trouble, selling such "fake" bikes. The stock Helicon engine is rated with 148 HP at the crank pin. Rotax itself has it designed and manufactured, as it is, for + 160 HP. I know this by a - for my - reliable source, but this is of course no official information. That 148 HP at the registration is only a theoretical or "paper" value, because for most of us, testing the motorcyle as a whole at a chassis dyno, it is not possible to pick up the engine out put directly from the crank. So we are talking here mostly about rear wheel power, which is in fact the power which applies the motorcyle onto a dyno roller. This power-number is inevitably lower as the out put at the crank shaft, simply because the are frictional losses within the drive line, in the gear box, in the rim or chain and within the tire itself. The question now is, what is the level of this losses form the crank to the rear wheel at the dyno? I have had some opportunities within my "career" to measure bikes on "officially calibrated" dynos, able to measure the "registration power". From this experience a loss of 10-12% from the crank to the wheel is a good rule of thumb. This means for the 148 crank-HP rated stock Helicon engine it should be good for something around at the rear wheel on a chassis dyno, where the bike is tested, as it is. Is this unrealistic? Well, there are still 15 HP, more than 10 KW around by friction, which transform directly into heat. In my sense, this value is enough for that "parasitic" losses of the gear drive. If this losses would be substantial higher, there should be more heat around the drive line: 10 kw heating energy is not just a little bit. This is an argumentation against that fairly low HP-#, fluctuating here around. Is the deepest number, a dyno shows at its print or screen, necessarily the "real" one? This reminds me to the weighing machine of my grand ma, whose scale shows always less as the machine in the drug store. But I do not want to start here a new discussion about "real power". For development, it does not matter, if your tool, your dyno, is rather optimistic or more pessimistic in its reading, the one thing, which matters is the difference between "before" and "after", when you test the effect of a modification. For me, that 10%-rule shows me in case of the Helicon engine the way where an efficient "bolt on" tuning or modification should go: I like to the that 148 crank-HP now at the rear wheel. In terms of torque, I have realized this goal, but in terms of peak power, I am missing it: 5 HP more than stock is more as nothing, but still far of. I have seen here, a complete exhaust system with larger sized headers could be the key for my intention. 10 HP by a full Erik Buell Racing-system, this is the stuff, I am looking for. But I have learned here also, that the price for this performance is an tremendous noise level by the exhaust. For me, most of the pipes, a have seen here, look like, as they are prone to emit nit sound, but shock waves to the environment. This has nothing to do with the performance, possible by these exhaust. But at meat me, I cannot stand that roar by an straight thru and open exhaust. Additionally this would by a source of continuous trouble with my Viennese police. For this reason I shall keep my street legal REMUS-muffler. The perfect thing would be to combine it with a larger header (are not there any crashed Erik Buell Racing-pipes around, I am just looking for the primary tubes). Regarding the "hot-air-problem", when opening auxiliary intake ports and path via the air box cover above the filter element: When removing the lid at all, I always get the best power. I never had any troubles with hot air by the engine department. Where should these hot air come from? The lower half of the stock air box is still in place, separating tightly the hot engine department form the air, streaming around the front fairing and handle bars. At my dyno there is a stream of air with 40 mph around the whole surface of the motorcycle. Therefore there is always cool and dense air around the filter element, even the is no cover at all. If someone realizes hot air here above the frame, where the engine breathes in its "all open"-mode, this indicates a bad air flow around the motorcycle at the dyno. In the "real world", when there is a storm around the bike, this should blow away any contamination by hot air out of the engine. | ||
| Chevycummins |
From what I remember they did confirm that it will help the dyno #'s and lower speed riding. Its hard to remember and keep track of 4.5 hours of things that they told and showed me. I got lots of ideas from them, just need the time to try them out now. I'm going to be working on getting more air to the engine with out defeating the ram air. I think it can be done and still look stock. | ||
| Easyrider |
Remember that more air in, means more fuel in for good results. | ||
| Highscore |
Do not think to much about the ram air effect. The 1125 - lay out with its intake between the forks is far off being perfect. The one an only point to let the air in and guide it to the engine is the stagnation point, the point at the fairing´s nose where the streaming air in front of the bike applies its best pressure. Even such a perfect located air intake is only able to produce a positive charging pressure within the air box of just 30 mbar at 130 mph Do not know, what´s this in psi, but it this is close to nothing. That is the same difference for HP when climbing up a hill for 1000 ft from sea level upwards. So this effect is there, but what of it remains at the unlucky intake at the 1125 in the shadow of the air stream around the bike? Additionally most of that - hopefully - positive pressure should be lost at the 1125 within its slim and wounded intake path upwards to the air box. The main issue of a ram air intake is from my point not the positive pressure, but the cool air ducted to the engine. As long as it is sure, that the engine gets the coolest air around, this should not make a problem, even if i gathers it via a perforated air box lid. @ Easyrider: Of course you are right: more air without the proper fuel makes no sense. Do you have any doubt that I am able the fix this this problem? (Message edited by highscore on June 23, 2010) (Message edited by highscore on June 23, 2010) | ||
| Datsaxman |
Highscore - 30mbar is less than 1/2 psi. 3% of atmospheric pressure either way. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
With what Highscore said above, I have experienced a good increase in all rpm ranges, with the modification above and inner air box removed, except absolute highest speeds (150+) which I'm not doing at the present as I'm not running at any track right now. And I believe its (ram air effect) is even less pronounced here at 4500 ft. elevation as the ram effect is almost negligible due to less air pressure. Also air temp. is not an issue until I stop for heavy traffic, which I just don't get into with my canyon riding only. Also my Erik Buell Racing Race ECM has kept up with the extra air and more open exhaust just fine. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
  Took a few minutes. I was cleaning the bike anyway  I have some high flow filter material and I might put that behind it...not sure yet. That mesh is so soft I cut it with scissors like paper. I used the plastic lugs on the cover to secure it somewhat and hot glued the perimeter into the neoprene foam I used to line the interior. Totally reversable mod. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Mountain, NICE work ... I'm a sucker for attention to detail. Now you've got me thinking about doing it! | ||
| Easyrider |
Highscore, I have more wories about the other people who don't have a tune, (or are able to tune)and lean out the bike with all the damage that it brings to the engine. When the IAT sensor sniffs cold air, more then original it needs a lot more fuel not a little, for that reason i make all my mapings for the 1125 again, I noticed this when I was cooling down my dynroom to freezing temperaures, to adjust the cold start. | ||
| _gdkp_ |
@mountainstrom offtopic: your bike is REALLY black and scratch free (looks like), which cleaning stuff you used? - my plastic has a haze (cloudy), do you know to solve this problem? Thanks! | ||
| Smitty1125r |
I did the airbox mod and the bike does idle little smoother, also has a LITTLE more lowend grunt! My concern it moving the IAT sensor into the airbox still dosen't help much bc the heat from the motor. I actually cut out the snorkle section of my lower airbox for more air. Runs a lot smoother and have no ecm upgrades yet or latest flash. | ||
| Avalaugh |
As regards to the IAT sensor, i have solved the heat issue, will get a pic up in a new thread at some point next week. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
There's plenty of scratches  I use S100 spray polish. Light hand buffing with Novus Fine Scratch Remover is what I use to remove scuffs or haze. I'd really like to get my bike tuned one of these days, but it's running fine with the IAT in the snorkel and the open air box. I usually keep my revs between 4 and 8. I'm not hammering it like I'm winning a race...too much oblivious 4 wheel traffic for that. So a little more grunt in that area would be great. | ||
| Avalaugh |
This is what i've done to my air box, will also line it and use a mesh like mountain storm to finish it off.    I have also relocated the IAT to the underside of the nose cone, but cannot show you guys the pics until i get my plastics back, they are away being vinyl wrapped. | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
Avalaugh , Hows the vinyl wrap going ? post up some pics !! Have you had any ride time with your mod's yet ? when you do give us your riding impressions . I completed my mod this past week , inner box removed , outer lined , AT sensor relocated , and I'm trying things with the E B R ECM running without the 02 sensors connected for right now , she seems real happy for now , we'll see .    | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Looks like you opened up the stock trim piece. Nice work. I'm thinking of putting some aluminum strapping in to support the sound deadening material I installed. The heat keeps cutting the adhesive loose. It would require a few holes in the cover so I am hesitant. | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
MS , It's just the stock opening , but I did think about opening it up some . I've checked under the cover a few times just to make sure everything was in place , no issues as of yet at least , but thanks for the heads up . | ||
| Aeholton |
Anyone see this picture on the Quickboard? These little louvered openings might be an option for delivering more air.  | ||
| Avalaugh |
The wrapping is going well, should have all the parts back by Sunday eve, swing arm is off being shot blasted (glass bead) so will be a couple of weeks till im back on the road for testing. Ill update some more pics during the week of progress. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Hahahaha I recognize those as soffit vents (having done some carpentry lol). | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
I thought I recognized those vents from somewhere outside the motorcycle world lol | ||
| Datsaxman |
Wow, Aeholton...those are *not* what I would call an aesthetic improvement...at all! Maybe if they were flat black? | ||
| Redbat |
Yeah, but they match the gas cap! | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Maybe mount one on the gas cap for increased fuel pressure | ||
| Aeholton |
Datsaxman - They are not on my bike. Just saw the picture on the Quickboard and thought they might add some air. i would definitely paint them black (if I put them on my bike). | ||
| Datsaxman |
I got that, holton. Just sayin... And they *don't* really match the gas cap very well, IMO. But black would be an improvement. Maybe just poke some holes in the same place and line the inside of the hole with the mesh we have seen in some of the posts? I just think that those cheep stamped Home Depot vents look like...cheep Home Depot vents. | ||
| Dannybuell |
See where Ducati is putting theirs, the outside leading edge of the air cover. http://www.ducati.com/bikes/monster/index.do | ||
| D_adams |
I kinda like this airbox. Just need it in black plastic.  | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I was looking at that one too. Maybe I'll make some scoops for my cover instead. |
