| Author | Message | ||
     Thefleshrocket |
Yesterday was close to 100F, the hottest in which I've ridden the 1125, and the last couple of miles of riding before I got home were at low speed. A bit after I got home, my wife complained about a gas smell near the garage door. Sure enough, the garage reeked of gas. Obviously the charcoal canister from the Cali 1125s is supposed to fix this, but I've read that the canister vents into one of the cylinder intakes, and I seem to recall at least one person complaining about rideability issues when that extra fuel is being recycled back into the motor. So, has anyone who has had the charcoal canister installed noticed any rideability issues? And second, has anyone whose bike came with the charcoal canister from the factory experienced rideability issues? (I'm wondering if the Cali bike tune has a provision to compensate for when the fuel is recycled into the motor.) | ||
| Aeholton |
I installed the canister. I had it backfire from the intake a couple of times after stopping for 10 minutes or so and then restarting when the engine is hot. No rideability issues. | ||
| Hogzilla |
Mine has been fine. No issues at all. Have had it on for about 3 months now. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
I've had zero rideability issues or changes since having my Cali Can installed. The only thing I noticed is that if it's hot and you shut it off for 15 minutes or so, it tends to act like I doesn't want to re-fire. Just a slight twist of the throttle corrects it, fires right up. That said, it could have been prone to do that BEFORE the Cali Can install for all I know - This is the first summer I've had my '09R. Mike | ||
| Daggar |
I haven't noticed any rideability issues, but I am thinking about removing the can and seeing if there is a difference. | ||
| Pattio |
I added the can to my bike and haven't had issues (or the smell of gas) since. Also the smell of gas is not a rideability issue. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
Daggar, I can tell you one difference from removing the can - You'll have a nice puddle of fuel under/beside whenever you come to a stop. That was enough to get me to install a canister on a 49-state bike. Couldn't imagine going back!! | ||
| Cravacor |
Mine runs fine also, I have noticed the hot start issue as well though. I have also noticed if I am hot and idling it occasionally will stall on take off. | ||
| Dms |
The boiling-gas-in-frame problem is apparently even worse here in Colorado due to the lower atmospheric pressure and prevalence of ethanol'd gasoline. My dealer installed the Cali can on my 49-state '08R under warranty (thanks High Country Buell!) and I've had two issues so far: 1. The bike really doesn't like hot starts now; like Mike said, it needs a tiny bit of throttle to start up now where in the past it'd fire right up with no drama. 2. When the dealer first installed it, they used a zip tie to attach the hose from the vent to the can. That connection was apparently not airtight and I had gas dripping out of the rear bodywork onto the swingarm. I pulled the can out and used a metal hose clamp instead, and the drip seems to be gone now. I still get gas fumes in the garage after a ride, but the smell's nowhere near as strong as it was before. I do wonder what the long-term effect of pushing all that gas vapor into the can's going to be, but I'll deal with that in due course. | ||
| Syonyk |
I've found the bike to not be happy on hot starts without the cali canister... I can't imagine that would make it any better. My suspicion is that when the bike is shut down, there's still some fuel in the throttle bodies, and that slowly evaporates and fills the throttle bodies/lower airbox with a very rich mixture. If that doesn't have time to dissipate, you get a mixture that's flat out too rich to start. Cracking the throttle sucks all that through and you get a proper mixture (and half the time a good pop in the exhaust). | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Thanks for all of the replies, everyone. I'll see how the bike does over the next few days (still in the 90s here) and if it keeps stinking up the garage, I'll see if I can get the charcoal canister installed as well. | ||
| Trafford |
Three months ago I got a cannister on Ebay in the US had it shipped to me in Holland Europe and fitted in about 20 minutes. I was not happy to feed the fumes into the front injector only by using the existing connector. As this is asking for hot start issues. Plus its a pain to connect the pipe without tiny fingers or lifting the injectors, so I drilled the bottom part of the airbox above the solenoid and pushed the pipe in there (it should be a press fit like the large fuel vent already in the airbox. This sits near both intakes so both cylinders get the fumes. It is working perfectly and I would recommend this as a very quick method. Since then I did the same for my brother and his bike is also running and starting great without fumes or spillage. see http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/555117.html (Message edited by trafford on June 24, 2010) For picture (Message edited by trafford on June 24, 2010) | ||
| Syonyk |
Trafford: Do you get a vacuum there to pull the fumes out of the canister? The canister needs a vacuum on it to actually vent it - if you just routed it into the airbox, there's probably not enough vacuum (except at high RPM WFO, maybe) to actually purge it. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
This is posted probably posted elsewhere, but does anybody have the part numbers handy for this? I'm going to call my dealer and see if they can get Harley to install the canister as a warranty item. (They've already ordered the clutch weep repair parts and are waiting on them.) | ||
| 1125rcya |
riding in 92deg. weather, I saw a air gas stream coming out of the vent tube while smoking a cig! Yep I walked away, now I know why the garage smells of gas after a ride. By opening up the gas lid for about a minute helps cut down the strong strong smell. | ||
| F_skinner |
True, in the winter it is worse due to more ethanol just like you stated. I did not use the Cali Can but modified the pressure valve on my Uly and 1125 (I returned it to stock before I sold it since it was going to the flatlands.) Dms, I will see if I can find the valve and hose assembly I took off so you can try it. Frank | ||
| Bub70 |
08 Cali bike, no problems. In North California, 100+ temperatures(F), no boil problems, no gas smell problems. OCCASIONALLY, hot start requires 2nd push of the starter button, not enough to be an issue. Also, as others, don't fill above the separator plate. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I did a little Googling of BWB and here are the part numbers: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/512272.html I believe it's >> 27042-84A. The hoses don't come with it, which means you'd need these two numbers >> P0066.1AM (TB to Can) P0067.1AM (Tank to Can) | ||
| Trafford |
Syonyk......is there enough vacuum?? Way more than enough! | ||
| Dms |
Thanks Frank, I really appreciate the offer! I just went for a spirited ride this weekend with the temperatures in the mid-80s, and the evil drip seems to be back. I need to figure out if there's something wrong with my Cali can install. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Dave - what ECM/flash are you running? I have seen/heard mine boil once or twice in 25k miles. No Cali can on Loretta, a spare belt and a brother's ashes ride there. I got the pump-gas race ECM and it's well worth the price of admission. Frank - your stuff shipped today, I forgot to bring it to Homecoming. So, what did you do to the Uly??????  Z | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
well i got mine back late sunday and so far in a little over 100 miles i've noticed that i am getting some decel popping in second on a moderate to slow decel from about 25mph. also getting the hot start issue as well. still stumbles when cruising at pretty much any speed when holding that speed. dont think that's any worse but hard to say for sure did a lot of those miles in traffic.... also the damn thing says service now when first started... | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
Trafford, How hot does it get where you live. The temperature makes a huge difference. In your mod, the only thing separating the environment and the fume is the air filter. I wouldn't think that air filter is sufficient to block the fume. Charcoal does filter out some, but not enough. So I wouldn't think your mod would work in hot weather. It's been hot here hitting 100 degrees F. (37 degrees C). The fume is unbearable even with the canister. It was so obnoxious that I had to leave the bike outside for more than 1 hour after shutting off the engine. It was too much fume for the little canister to handle I guess. | ||
| Unibear12r |
I've wondered about pulling the return line from the front intake and putting it into the air box. I also wondered about if there is enough vacuum there when riding in cool temps and the tank pressure is low. I have to think there is something wrong with your set up DC. Bad canister, cracked lines or misrouted lines or the like. I have one of the first 08s sold in California and ride in temps up to 110 here and always put the bike in the garage right away. While there is usually a very, very small amount of fuel smell it's not bad at all. But there was the one time the dealer didn't get the vent hose to the canister secured well enough and it had popped off. When I could smell it in the house about ten minutes later and opened the door between house and garage it just gaged me and I was afraid that using the electric door opener might blow my garage into the next block. That was the only time though. The pressure in the fuel tank appears to get quite high at times so I learned to open the fuel cap away from me. Opening the cap fast when the tank is really hot can drop the pressure and REALLY set the fuel to boil. Enough to launch a lot of hot droplets into your face if you were leaned down and looking for the fuel level. I've never had any ride ability problems caused by this. I've never had any ride ability problems with the 1125 at all. I have had ride ability problems because of the carbon canister with my XBs when overfilling the fuel tank. Liquid fuel in the canister would cause the bike to cough and sputter badly. I've gotten better at guessing fuel expansion so I've never overfilled the 1125. There was hard starting problems when hot in the early 1125 days but that was fixed around the second or third re flash. Nuisance check engine lights can occur when the front intake's afv is effected by the large amount of vapor being ported to the front intake. If the front afv goes below 80 or the difference between the front and rear becomes greater than 20 or 25 points you will get a CEL. There's never been a ride ability problem at all at those times. Seems to me to be numbers they picked because they never expected the bikes to get there in normal operation, but the Cali bikes can. Perhaps a re flash can simply change those numbers, if they haven't already. I'll take the carbon canister any day. The real fix would have been to have the XB's frame fan on the 1125. My XBs boil fuel but it's only noticeable if you really think to look for it closely. I've gotten them extremely hot. BMC has stated that the fan was needed for cooling the old lower pressure fuel system but I don't think that they realized how much it cooled the inside of the fuel frame and kept fuel boiling down. | ||
| Trafford |
I am the one who did the carbon can mod putting the return line from the front intake into the air box. It is working perfectly at all speeds. Plus I put the bike in my hallway in the house!! As my garage with my other bikes is a few hundred yards away and its quicker to wheel it in. Its an open plan house......believe me there is no way I would do this if it stank out the house. (Message edited by trafford on June 29, 2010) | ||
| Pwillikers |
Trafford, I'm happy you're happy with your mod and that you feel it is working for you but I think you should stop recommending it to others without concrete data supporting your assertions. There is no way the airbox develops anywhere near the vacuum of the throttle body venturi. In fact, the entire rationale for putting the airbox intake at the front of the bike is to PRESSURIZE the airbox. The likely hood of your configuration evacuating the charcoal canister is low. | ||
| Trafford |
OK I can only report my experience. No one has to do it themselves.perhaps the fact that there are no fumes or smell is a happy coincidence. Even my brother is enjoying the same coincidence. He had complaints from the owner of his rented garage and the owner reports a 100% improvement since the mod. And the lady owner is no biker!! | ||
| Trafford |
oh by the way .....check out at which speed the airbox becomes pressurized....the info is on this forum. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Trafford's idea seems well thought out and implemented. There won't be as much vacuum on the vent line, but the vapors will be evenly applied to the cylinders, not just the front. Keep the ideas coming. Zack | ||
| Stimbrell |
I can confirm Trafford's mod works on my 09 bike as well, when I fitted the canister as per the standard instructions, to the front intake, I had hot start issues, fitted per Trafford's mod I have no problems. So many thanks Trafford. |
