| Author | Message | ||
     Neb25 |
Racing the XR1200 looks like fun. If they could get the racing a little closer it would be fun to watch as well. Sure was good to here that Paul James is going to be ok. I understand wishing the worst for Harley but it's still racers we know and cheer for out there racing them. It's very early in the series, why not give it a chance. Joel | ||
| Svh |
Hey Wes- Isn't your drag bike a Buell tuber? It sure looks like one but they keep calling it a Harley. | ||
| Hurricaneleah |
Thats weird SVH, yes it is definitely a Buell tuber....1999 X1 lightning to be exact. I don't have any badging on it so maybe they thought it was a Harley because of that... my hats off to Mike. He has that 1125 drag bike running great! Looks trick too.... | ||
| Xb1125r |
I never realized how slow those XL HD bikes are. I bet danny never had to use the brake,lol | ||
| Svh |
Last year and this year it was announced as a HD. Great showing with the drags. It was cool to see alot of the racers out on the wall to watch. | ||
| Firstbuell |
Xb1125r, you may well be correct on the other hand, if he was as hard on the XR's brakes as he used to be on the 1125r's, then the pads & mebbe both discs will ALL need replacing........ | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Wes, let us know when you get the video from the race posted. I'd love to see it. It was on too late for me to catch it on Speed and have no DVR. :-) | ||
| Rmr |
Hey Everyone....saw all of the speculation on what happened to the 1200's. One of my bikes ridden by Kyle Wyman had the oil filter back out after being safety wired wrong....he did leak oil and crashed. But with the red flag and delay we were able to get him on a back up bike. Danny burned the clutch out doing wheelies and burnouts on the cool down lap....gotta talk to that boy  . All and all a good first showing...All of us at RMR are extremely happy Paul is ok....looked nasty. Thats about it....see you at the races. | ||
| Firstbuell |
thx Richie, it's great getting the inside scoop from you do you envision a profitable XR1200 racer rental business, if the class lives on? | ||
| Anonymous |
Sorry, IMHO it was pathetic. Everyone being handed money can rah rah all they want, but it is a sad piece of work to watch. But with enough H-D money I guess the bandana people will buy into that these are sportbikes and this is good racing. | ||
| Firstbuell |
anony, I feel ya yes, the race results suggest a small & very spread-out field - it'll improve..... yes, the XRs are big & clumsy & s-l-o-w - but they're well-matched against each other! yes, the bandana heads may cheer - if so, good on em! finally, if the V&H XR1200 Series keeps small teams & dealerships involved - that's good! | ||
| Anonymous |
No, it takes money away from real racers on real bikes. That sucks. Enough of fake staged racing. | ||
| Firstbuell |
anony, wow - some might find that a compelling argument me? I dunno, yet... seriously, can we revist this at the end of 2011 season? I believe it'll take at least that long for DMG & AMA Pro & H-D to play out | ||
| Trojan |
Sorry, IMHO it was pathetic. Everyone being handed money can rah rah all they want, but it is a sad piece of work to watch. But with enough H-D money I guess the bandana people will buy into that these are sportbikes and this is good racing. I get the distinct aroma of sour grapes How is the Xr1200 series so different to all the other 'spec' classes that race every weekend up and down our countries, and which you don't seem to have any problem with. If there was a Buell spec class would that be real racing to you? No, it takes money away from real racers on real bikes. That sucks. Enough of fake staged racing. Neither the UK or the US XR1200 series take any money away from 'real racing' (whatever definition you care to make for that) and actually add monetary value to the racing pot by getting involved. The fact is that they are both sponsored by companies that in all probability wouldn't have put money into racing this year if the XR1200 series didn't happen. Also a lot of the teams involved (especially H-D dealer backed teams) would not be involved in racing at all if the XR1200 series didn't exist, so people who get on their high horse and pontificate about it not being 'real racing' should congratulate new sponsors and new teams getting involved in racing at any stage rather than adopt this snobbery about what constitutes 'proper racing'. I would rather see people race MZ 250's or Ninja 250's than not race at all, and some people that start in spec class racing (teams, sponsors or riders) will inevitably work their way into mainstream racing later. We are all annoyed at the treatment that H-D gave to Buell and the manner of the close down, but does that mean that H-D should not continue to promote its own products in any way it sees fit, including racing if that it what it decides to do? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Spec racing is what it is. Doesn't matter if it's on an XR1200 or a Ninja 250. The focus is rider skill, not necessarily the machine. DISCLAIMER: The following is my opinion. Yours may vary. Would the XR be my choice for a spec class, no. Would I race the wheels off it if given the chance, ABSOLUTELY! Also, I think it would be better if the big names skipped on "cherry picking" in this class. | ||
| Fuzzz |
Anony: I ride a Buell and an old Harley, and I wear a bandanna because I have such f---d up hair (That's why my nickname is Fuzz)to prevent helmet head, and I don't care one way or the other what HD wants to spend money on. | ||
| 46champ |
This Anony statement brings up a question. I don't want to know who the anonys are but how many are there? At one time I thought it was the opinion of 5 or less now I'm thinking more. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I get the distinct aroma of sour grapes Which . . . just thinking out loud here . . . would be of little surprise. I recall the disdain you had when HD racing decided to direct their resources somewhere other than where you were wanting them to spend their racing $$$. The XR1200 racing is a desperate attempt at "play racing" from the folks who pissed away about $60,000,000 trying to "race" a VR-1000 and never had the success the Erik Buell Racing had on their first outing. Racing by committee . . . well . . isn't. I do confess . . . knowing some of the folks calling the shots . . . I derive a perverse personal satisfaction from watching them try to execute a racing program built around an "amicable group consensus". It should have been named "THE COMPROMISE CUP". | ||
| Firstbuell |
hey Court, I'm not questioning the accuracy of that $60,000,000.00 figure rather, I'm sitting here, staring at it & remembering the $100,000,000.00+ BMC writeoff & the $100,000,000.00+ MV purchase &...... glad I'm no H-D stockholder !! | ||
| Stormy |
Court, I completely agree that the folks at Buell in East Troy got screwed. I am furiously mad at H-D for turning into a non-motorcyle-centric board room. I am heart broken that the company I spent the last 16 years supporting and centering my life around is gone. But: The VR1000 led AMA Superbike races (Mid-Ohio 1994, Brainerd 1994, Mid-Ohio 1996, Daytona won pole position at an AMA Superbike race (Chris Carr Pomona 1995), multiple AMA Superbike podium finishes (Pascal Picotte Sears Point+Pikes Peak 1999), Thomas Wilson even took the checkered flag at an AMA Superbike race(Mid-Ohio 1996) untill a red flag backed the results up a lap. They also won Formula USA races (run what you brung) and competed in Twins racing well. The VR1000 program was poorly managed and financed. I read that Erik and Scheibe did not get along. I know Erik's opinion on the air box volume and frame arrangement of the VR. The video is online of the tour of the farmhouse where Erik talks about the VR chassis laptimes versus his chassis. However facts are facts, the 1125RR has yet to equal the VR1000's best results in AMA Superbike racing. Let's not let our (yours and mine) feelings lead to falsehoods. Now if anyone gave Erik $60,000,000 last year or this year to race the 1125RR, I strongly believe that his results would have been far better than Scheibe's! I have spec raced the old 883's and the Buell Lightning Class and I remember the same comments about the Buells needing their own class in order to win a race. | ||
| Davegess |
Stormy, to compare the Buell 1125R superbike program is really unfair to Erik and his team. The bikes that have run, last year and this year have been purely private entires. The VR program was a full factory deal with a budget to match. they did not spend what say Honda was spending back then but they spent plenty. Dedicated race facility, dedicated staff, big buck riders and they had dismal results. Years of racing and they get one pole and lead a few laps; That is dismal/ I don't mind spec racing, you need to give the spectators a show but the XR races are pretty sad. The old 883 series had serious competition. Maybe this will get there. What really pisses me off is that one of the blast against Erik was that H-D was not going to pay for Erik's "racing hobby" and now they are paying for this? Racing has no marketing value so why are they doing this? | ||
| Sparky |
Dave, I think you've really summed up Harley's (Wandell's) punitive management philosophy regarding Buell. One would almost think that Sheibe were running Harley these days behind the scenes, LOL. At least Sheibe was a motorcycle guy, albeit closed minded to the max. | ||
| Trojan |
What really pisses me off is that one of the blast against Erik was that H-D was not going to pay for Erik's "racing hobby" and now they are paying for this? Racing has no marketing value so why are they doing this? As I read it H-D haven't invested much (if any) money in the XR1200 race series as they are pretty much run by outside sponsors both in the UK and US. Teams/riders have to buy the road going bike + race kit from a H-D dealer and although they get some discount they are not exactly giving them away. Teh price for a 'kitted' Xr1200 racer in the UK is around GBP12500 or around 4500 more than tha stock bike, so there isn't much in the way of subsidy from H-D. The race kits have been developed by Harris & V&H so again no investment required from H-D there either. I think the only money spent by the MoCo on these series is in the promotion and advertising, which is a drop in the ocean really in financial terms when it comes to race budgets. | ||
| Slaughter |
If ANYBODY thinks that the XR series is a "HARLEY" series - I dare you to go to Harleys' website and find ANY mention of it. Hard enough to find their <racing> link but even clicking on the racing link, ALL you have is flat track and drag racing. As Matt has said, NO - the XR1200 is NOT a Harley race series but a series promoted by V&H that just happens to use XR1200 machines. | ||
| Davegess |
I find it hard to believe that H-D marketing types are not funneling support to this BUT i certainly could be wrong. | ||
| Blake |
"I think the only money spent by the MoCo on these series is in the promotion and advertising, which is a drop in the ocean really in financial terms when it comes to race budgets." "Only promotion and advertising", huh? What are you suggesting, that race series sponsor also pay for all the competitors expenses?  | ||
| Court |
I'm sure HD is preparing the "Cease and Desist" letters at this moment. They've •••••• racing programs up before . . . no reason they can't do it again. | ||
| Trojan |
"Only promotion and advertising", huh? What are you suggesting, that race series sponsor also pay for all the competitors expenses? As far as I am aware nobody pays the racers expenses for them, and certainly not H-D. Over here the only money that the racers can expect is prize money if they are lucky enough to win any, and maybe a set of tyres (again prize linked). I don't know about the USA, but nobody over here racing at this level would ever expect such things as expenses or 'start money'. Most of the teams are sponsored or supported by H-D dealers, but again this comes from the individual dealers and not H-D themselves. | ||
| Slaughter |
NO race series has EVER been able to cover even the WINNER's expenses with the possible exception of the Toyota 200 at Willow Springs (the highest purse of ANY race in the USA - including MotoGP) - and that "only" paid $50K for first place. As Matt indicated, any money really comes from the individual team's sponsors, with a few nickels and dimes coming in from contingency money paid by all those "sponsor" stickers you see on the sides of the bikes. Usually in the case of the back-markers, it's LARGELY coming from their own pockets. | ||
| Davegess |
NO race series has EVER been able to cover even the WINNER's expenses Slaughter, not quite the truth but pretty close these days. Some of the local short track car guys can manage to pay all their bills out of the purse IF they don't crash and finish well. BUT it is pretty rare. Bike racers don't have a chance to do this of course. The local car guys can race 7 nights a week and sleep at home each night so that makes a huge difference in cost. Back in the day, 50 years ago, racing actually was paid for by the spectators. There was very little sponsorship money and most of the car guys ran for the prize money. The big and successful Indy 500 cars were owned by rich guys as a hobby but most of the 500 field and the guys who ran the full AAA and early USAC car circuit lived off the prize money. They slept in the tow vehicle a lot and eat a lot of beans but they did make a living out of it. My favorite guy from that period ran AAA and IMCA right around WWII. He went by the name of Crash Waller. My favorite race car guy name of all time. |
