| Author | Message | ||
     Cravacor |
I want to get into welding so I can do more with my bike. I am looking for advice on what is the best type of starter welder (110V if possible as I don't have 220V in my garage). I am a good mechanic, but have never tried welding. Thanks in advance. | ||
| Jdugger |
Look and see if you local community college has a welding program and offers a weekend class. Depending on what you are trying to do, the first question is more "what process should you use" instead of "what welder to buy". If you are planning a lot of Aluminum work, you are probably going to want a TIG machine, and most need 220 for Aluminum because of the amount of current welding Al well requires. 110v MIG welders really aren't much of a good choice for anything. They tend to create low quality welds, in particular in the hands of novices, that don't hold up well. Any 110 welders that I know of are really only good at doing thin steels. In particular, I have a 9lb portable TIG machine that runs on 110. It's great for up to about 16ga SS, like you see in dairy farms and restaurants, but not good for much on the motorcycle. For that, my 250A Miller Dynasty asymmetrical waveform machine is the ticket... but that's big $$$. You have 220 in your garage, you just need to pull it from your box.  | ||
| D_adams |
If you've never welded at all, take a course at your local vo-tech school. They'll teach you the basics on how to do it and give you projects to do, etc. You'll need some decent gear, gloves, helmet, and then pick out what welder to use. What's your budget like? My setup came up to about $2200-2300 when it was all said and done. It's a Miller tig/stick welder that runs on both 110 and 220, I got an extra foot pedal, a 330 cubic ft argon bottle that was almost $400 out the door, then filler material, brushes, hammers, clamps, vise grips with deep throats for holding stuff and all kinds of misc tools as well. You can buy a cheapie inverter welder on ebay, but like my dad always told me, you get what you pay for. I've seen them go for $400-500 for new ones. If you don't mind used equipment, you can find miller or lincoln welders on ebay also, but they'll still run $900+ for the small ones. One last thing, if you plan to weld on aluminum, make sure to get an AC welder, not a DC only one like what I have. I never intended to weld aluminum, so I didn't care at the time and got exactly what I needed. It's tiny, only weighs 15 lbs and is portable for the occasional side job where I have to go mobile. | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
I started welding last summer so I could build some parts for my TJ. Started practicing Dec '08 and had a full front bumper with brush guard and lights by May '09. It's really been an valuable skill to know, at least a little bit like me — looking at my weldments, you can tell that I'm just starting! But the bumper got me pulled out of a mud pit by the brush guard, so it's gotta' have some strength to it for being 1/8" plate! I used a Hobart Handler 140 (110V) using C25. Here's a thread I had on JeepForum about my welding escapades: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/bumper-build-nex t-stage-743230/ Have fun!! READ READ READ!!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I posed this question a while back... Lots of good info in the archives, you came to a great place to ask the question. I ended up choosing Oxy Actylene, and if I was doing it again, I'd make the same choice. I got two big tanks, hoses and a pile of beat up but fully functional torches (including a cutter and rosetta head) for $75. Cost another $100 or so by the time I got the tanks filled and everything else sorted. So for $200, I got the ability to cut, to weld, and to heat / bend any material. And it scales really well. If I had to cut or weld 1" thick plate, I could do it just fine. It would use a lot of gas, but that's it. If I have to throw it in the back of the car and take it to something broken, nothing to it. It's nice to be able to get a piece of big steel bright red hot, and bend it like butter. It's amazing how easy steel is to handle once you learn to deal with the heat. I've even used wooden forms, just start with them really wet, work quickly, and don't expect them to last for more then a couple of bends. I've even used them as a stencil for a cut, to make a poor man's plasma cutter. Didn't need to rewire anything or add any new breakers. Also, the torch seems a LOT less fussy about surface prep. If the weld isn't important, I'll just start heating with little or no cleaning. I've stuck together two completely painted pieces of steel with no cleaning / grinding. I wouldn't recommend that for anything important, but it shows how much less sensitive it is then stick / mig / tig. Finally, it takes a little bit to learn, but you constantly tune it in "real time". So just choose the right torch (two is probably enough for most problems, a little one like a 7 and a big one like a 15). And I can (and did, just to see if I could) weld thin sheet steel to thick plate. The amount of control you have is amazing. It fills well as well... I can (and have, just to see if I could) filled in a quarter sized hole in thin sheet metal with nothing but fill. The back will be ugly, but the front will grind smooth. Downsides? The "cost per weld" is probably higher. A really big tank of actylene is $70 or so to swap out. Oxygen is cheaper at $30 or so. One fill lasts for a LOT of welding and cutting, probably 5 to 50 hours of continuous operation. Also, gas welding is slower... with MIG you can slap together two pieces of steel (after you set everything up) really quick. So if you have a lot of little repetitive similar welds on thinner metal, MIG is probably cheaper. (Message edited by reepicheep on May 20, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
If you are just doing steels, O/A is a very fine choice that's often overlooked today, but shouldn't be, IMHO. It's still the best process for 4130 steels, and it offers you some other really useful options like brazing the arc processes don't. It's messy -- probably on par with gas-MIG, but not as bad as stick or flux core, but work really, really, really well. It's a great choice for someone new to welding. | ||
| Dosmie |
The other problem with the 110volt machines, especially the ones that you get at Home Depot and Lowes, is that the duty cycle is very low(percent of an hour you can actually weld with it). If you are doing much other than small welds, it will keep on cutting out on you. +1 on the Votech or community college course. See if you are even going to enjoy it before you lay out the cash for equipment. | ||
| Hildstrom |
You don't need 240V, but it is nice to have. You can weld any thickness of metal in multiple passes with a 120V welder, but you must make sure things are clean between passes and use proper technique to get a strong weld. Some of the 120V MIGs are nice, but it is difficult to weld aluminum without a spool gun. The thin aluminum wire is too soft to be reliably pushed up the long torch cable and it will jam up. I had an Everlast Super250P that died. It was replaced by an Everlast PowerMaster 205 under warranty. I'll be happy if it lasts because it is versatile and powerful for the money. http://hildstrom.com/projects/super250p/index.html http://hildstrom.com/projects/powermaster205/index .html You can buy or make a 240V extension cord if you will only be welding occasionally. A friend of mine runs one from his dryer or range to the garage when he needs it. Also, contrary to popular belief, you can weld aluminum with DC processes. TIG is usually done AC for the cleaning action. MIG is DC and can weld aluminum nicely. You can apparently TIG weld aluminum DC if you use helium instead of argon for shielding gas, but cleanliness is key. I have not used DC TIG on aluminum, but my stepfather has and I have seen numerous posts and photos of it online. Also, you can DC stick weld aluminum with the right electrodes, but you'll want to have plenty of practice and a reliable grinder.  Cleanup is more of a PITA with aluminum electrodes, but it works. I'd recommend over 100A welder capacity if you plan to DC stick weld aluminum. http://hildstrom.com/projects/stickaluminum/index. html Another friend swears by his oxygen acetylene rig. You can heat, bend, solder, braze, cut, and weld with it. It's portable. You can weld aluminum with the right flux paste. SmarFlix has some great DVDs you can rent on the different processes. http://smartflix.com/store/category/27/Welding Practice is key, but that's half the fun. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Also, contrary to popular belief, you can weld aluminum with DC processes. I thought about bringing this up, but passed. Since you did... DCSP (Direct Current Straight Polarity) is used with Helium for welding 2x series Aluminum alloys. As mentioned, it must be clean, clean, clean. Al will puddle with a bit of a thin skin under He, and you more or less push through it with your filler. It does not produce the raised "stack of coins" weld bead like Ar on A/C does, but the weld is sound. Another option for welding Aluminum is DCRP. You get lots and lots of cleaning action! In this case, you can use Argon. However, in this mode, which is what MIG uses, most of the heat goes into the electrode. It can be difficult to get enough heat into the work itself to form a proper puddle without melting your torch. I've used DCRP with a water cooled TIG torch for "stupid welding tricks" like welding Aluminum cans together. | ||
| Blake |
For motorcycle stuff a 120V ought to be just fine. Go with a good name brand, Miller, Hobart (made by Miller) or Lincoln. Most welders I know, actually all five of them, prefer Miller. There's a very reputable business on ebay selling Millermatics at cut rate prices. I went ahead and purchased locally for the service. I couldn't help but go with the dual voltage 211 with spoolgun for Al. Should do just about anything I ever want. The 3 x #3 Cu conductor to run 230V 150' out to the shop darn near cost as much as the welder. LOL. | ||
| Stirz007 |
+1 on Blake. Miller makes good machines. I'm running a Miller TIG machine, a mid-range Lincoln wire gun and have a oxy/acetylene gas rig, plasma cutter yada yada yada. You definitely need 220 (480 three phase is more robust, and better, but not an absolute) I used to weld for a living a loooong time ago, and will only offer a little advice: practice, practice, practice - then practice some more before you start welding on your bike, unless you are willing to re-do your work at least once. Buy some material of similar type and thickness, then learn how to actually weld it before trying out your new skills on a $1300 frame. Have fun with it.... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I also use my oxy act rig for using that "alumaweld" stuff. Harbor Freight usually carries it. The process is counter intuitive, but documented in the instructions that come with the sticks, and works pretty well if you follow it. It hasn't worked every time I have tried it, but as a general rule it works better then I expected, and stood up well for a couple of pretty demanding applications... The first being building back up a completely blown out mirror perch on a KLR-250. Built up the blown out section, drilled it the right size, and then tapped it for the mirror. That mirror has a lot of leverage and vibration, and gets threaded in, and it held. The second was a Honda mirror from an older ST that had tumbled through a fence. That crappy aluminum potmetal had been broken in several places, and the new assembly from Honda was $200. I was able to reconstruct it and it held well. Normal propane torches will work, but don't get hot enough to do it smoothly. Mapp gas or Oxy Actylene makes it easy. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
I wish I had the spool gun. I am stuck pulling one wire out to install the other. then to take one gauge off one bottle and put on the other. I'm prepped for stainless, alum and steal. the bottles cost way too much IMO. startgon and tri-mix. I know stargon is over kill for steal but it works great. | ||
| Prowler |
If your primary use for a welder is motorcycle type stuff and your plan is welding steel only (up to 3/16" thick), a 110 Volt MIG machine is a great choice. I bought a 110 MIG about 25 years ago (from JC whitney of all places) and I've used it to weld up a car chassis (Porsche Speedster square tube framework), motorcycle parts, go-kart/minibike frames, bunk beds and just about anything else you can think of made of steel. Would be nice to be able to weld aluminum, but for what the unit cost, it's been one of the best investments I've ever made. If aluminum welding is not required and you don't want to spend $2000-$3000 for a decent TIG machine, a 110 MIG is great for hobby work and fairly easy to learn. | ||
| Usanigel |
Another thing with using tanks (O/A) is you don't have to weld, you can braze the parts together. At times this gives you better control. You can also hard solder copper, brass, bronze etc. If you want to get fancy, heat treatment can also be done. | ||
| Nightripper |
take a welding class at a local 2 year college or local high school that offers vocational training. Or simply by your self a mig and tig set up and buy some videos or welding text books on it from a good welding shop or manufacturer, the biggest thing to remember doing and good welding to preparation of the metal, proper rod selection, current setting , rod feed rate, and angle of welding handle etc. It just takes practice and patience, note if you are going to do it at home alot proper ventilation and breathing and eye protection is esential. The fumes generated are highly toxic and can cause central nervous brain damage and birth defects and can cause permanent eye damage even when wearing the masks. So if you are young and still having kids or females or young growing children around where you will be welding I would give it a second thought. Google health hazards, long term and birth defects associated with welding and you will see what I mean. Some gases produced during welding can actually kill you, if you breath them in a unventilated area. | ||
| Blake |
"The fumes generated are highly toxic and can cause central nervous brain damage and birth defects and can cause permanent eye damage even when wearing the masks." http://www.tdi.state.tx.us/pubs/videoresource/wpwe ldhazards.pdf Whoa! I've heard about highly toxic effects of welding on plated or galvanized materials, but never about regular steel, aluminum or stainless MIG or TIG or Oxy/Acytelen. That said, good ventilation is always important. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
While working at a manufacturer up north .They always made us drink milk before and during tha shifts whild doing extensive glvanized work. I just love the cobwebs and mess from the galv. I suggest a small class at the local teck school or a quality dvd from miller welding equipment. | ||
| Nightripper |
You can't always believe what you read concerning and safety and health issues from the welding manufacturers or companies that do alot of welding. Or even the companies you work for. The fact is the manufacturers and companies don't really want to the workers or the buyers of the equiptment to fully no about all the health and hazards of welding, especially over long term useable. To find these health and safety risks you have to spend some time googling them and you will find studies and doctors warning about the effects of the fumes and bright lite on the body and eyes. I know alot of long term professional welders that had to give it up or go blind and there still had eye damage from the long term exposure to welding, alot of them were forced to take up other professions. When I suffered eye damage form welding I spoke to alot of doctors and specialists and they said that welding really does alot of damage to your eyes and internally from the fumes. Also even periodic flashes from simple tacking and not wearing a mask , like you see the bike builders do on TV is real dangerous. Its interesting when you watch a USA car show that shows painting and welding and you compare it to a UK show. The USA shows state use properly and wear proper safety gear and you are fine. The UK shows state that the welding and the painting is highly toxic and dangerous and they tell you leave it to the professionals. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I always just set up what I am going to weld just inside or outside of an open garage door. The wind can be a little bit of hassle, but it's not generally a problem. Welding the galvinized stuff really is pretty nasty. I try and avoid it, or at least avoid breathing the gas as much as possible when I have to do it. Oxy Act still needs eye protection, but isn't nearly as bright as arc welding. | ||
| Toona |
If anyone is looking for a spool gun set up, I've go an extra. I've gone "all-TIG" at my shop and only use the spool gun on one-off set up stuff that I can't tig. I have it on a Hobart 130 110v machine. It's around 4-5 years old, but I haven't used it in the last 1-2 years. I the model is a Spoolmate 3035 and the SGA 100 speed control box. I'd consider selling the Hobart 130 with it as well, but the weight in shipping would kill the deal, unless you live close to central PA and could pick it up. Price TBD. |
