| Author | Message | ||
     Marlboro |
"To protect and to serve"-- Are you kidding me... I went out for a short ride today on my M2. I got to an intersection to take a left turn and the light would not turn green for me because it was one of those "sensor" triggered lights and often times they don't pick up motorcycles. So after waiting there several minutes I just blew threw it. About 100 feet later I see a cop turn the corner and begin to creep up on me. Before he even turns his lights on I begin to apply my brakes and just then he turns his lights on. He comes out and asks if I knew what I was being pulled over for and I said yes, I went through a red light because it wouldn't turn green. I said there was nothing I could do. He then asked for my license and insurance and I gave him the license but did not have an updated insurance card. He comes out after several minutes and gives me a ticket for going through the light and a warning for not having updated insurance info. I then asked what I was supposed to do in the future if the light won't turn green. He then said "sit there!! I am now giving you another ticket!" He came out again and changed the warning to a ticket! These tickets were $169 a piece!!!!!! This cop did not seem very sure of himself and was almost trembling. He is absolutely and totally pathetic and a worthless human being. What he did was unjust and he should be fined for wasting everyone's time. I have had other bad experiences with cops over meaningless violations. They just seem to have a need to express power and dominance. They also hate motorcycles. I was about to lose it big time so when he asked if I had any further questions I just thanked him for the wonderful job he was doing. Lets hear some of your stories and what I can do to somehow rectify this. Thanks and ride hard. | ||
| Fasteddieb |
4 words: Take It To Court Research your state's laws concerning inoperative signals and have a copy with you. Also, have a copy of your insurance policy showing it was in effect at the time of the stop. My guess is that if you present your case fairly to a judge you'll likely have it thrown out. Name calling or even insinuations that the officer wasn't just doing his job will NOT go over well. | ||
| Blake |
Suggest getting a video tape of you sitting on your bike at the light for three minutes without it changing. | ||
| Mikej |
Start calling the road department and logging a complaint every day for the next month and record/write-down everything they say about light signal sensors and motorcycles. Then in the mean time make a court date. Go to court, Be courteous and respectively dressed, State your case, Be sure to state in writing in a professional manner that the officer changed the warning to a citation (shows indecision on his part), Present research you've collected about other motorcycles and bicycles and traffic light sensors, Smile and say thank you when the judge dismisses the charges but leaves the fine intact. The Police are not the enemy, but just like in every occupation there are some who would be better served in a different occupation. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Sean, What intersection was this? I've had to do the same quite a few times. I even got pulled over once. I explaned the situation, he checked my insurance and that was it. He also said he would do a writeup on the intersection for the road department. On another occasion, I got pulled over (don't remember why, but didn't get a ticket) but I didn't have my ins card with me. I had 72 hrs to produce it at a deputy registraurs office to void the ticket. You can beat both the tickets. I'm betting the officer won't even show. Whas this guy a local or a sheriff? I'd also call his chief and report him and follow up with a letter. If it was in your home town, be careful for retalliation. Brad | ||
| Sickquad |
The problem with cops is that 90% of them have little mans disease. | ||
| Blake |
That is not my experience at all. Sounds to me like you may suffer from a similar affliction. The vast majority of police officers I've encountered are a credit to their badge. You might try walking a mile in their shoes some day. Sure there is the odd bad cop, but to generalize about the entire profession the way you have is just plain wrong. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Well my last experience happened yesterday at Lake Geneva !! Me and a friend cruised down, and it's a small, crowded resort town and we circled FOREVER trying to get a parking spot. Two others on motorcycles in front of us found a vehicle pulling out, and they pulled into the spot one behind the other, indicating we could pull next to them the same way, making it 4 bikes in one parking spot. Since there was plenty of room and we were not out in the street, seemed like it should be okay !! But we got back and found tickets on all 4 bikes, $10 a piece, exceeding the 3 bike limit to a parking spot !! Very frustrating, since we really didn't know you couldn't park that many, and anyway as crowded as it was did we really have to get a ticket, how about a friendly warning ?? Then a girl happened by who appeared to be the "Meter Maid", and we said to her "Excuse me are you the Meter Maid?", and she proceeded to ignore us, and we said "Excuse me" again at which point she rudely informed us that when she is refered to by that title she ignores it !! We then ask her, what exactly did she want to be refered to as since it's been that long since we got parking tickets, we weren't aware the title had changed, and what we didn't say was we wanted to refer to her as B---- !! She then told us, just as snotty as before she was a Parking Violation Officer !! At which point, we just said never mind we'd ask our questions somewhere else when we could speak to someone else, no point in even talking to someone with an attitude like hers !! Just seemed to me, she could have educated us on the political correctness of the new title for Meter Maids, and been friendlier, after all aren't they they liason between thier department and the public !! My public perception of the traffic violation department in Lake Geneva now is that it SUCKS !!!! Grouchy girl must have been hot and miserable in her uniform walking around giving out tickets !! CJM  | ||
| Mikej |
Was it posted somewhere about the 3-bike limit? If not then go to court. If it's not posted then request that it become posted. Point out that as a tourist destination any unusual parking regulations should be posted. For example, within the city of Milwaukee, is it legal to park more than one motorcycle in a metered or pay per use garage or on-street parking spot? I don't know the answer to this. I do know how to practice legal civil disobedience to bring it to city officials' attention. Rule of thumb: if they're in a uniform with a badge just call them officer regardless of gender or attitude.  | ||
| S1joel |
Marlboro, Your profile doesn't list where you are so I don't know if this will help. I believe that it was North Carolina that just passed a law allowing motorcyclists to proceed through a red light after stopping and making sure that it is safe to do so. This was because so many bikes have trouble tripping the light. My 1000 lb Electra Glide won't even trip most of them. I've never stopped a motorcycle for running the light in a safe manner due to a long wait. It's always refreshing to see people make such sweeping accusations when it comes to police officers. Sickquad, there do exist officers with "little man's disease", but I could also start rattling off stories of asshole bikers and idiots who shouldn't be allowed on four wheels much less than two. Get you paperwork together, find a copy of the new North Carolina Law, and speak plainly to the judge when you tell him why you had to run the light. Most likely he will understand. Don't attack the officer in court, judges hate it when defendants talk shit about the officers. As far as dealing with the officer on the scene, snide comments thinly veiled by politeness will only get you more tickets. Like I've said before, having a helmet and up to date paperwork shows responsibility, which goes a very long way when I stop you. Joel | ||
| Joplin |
My $0.02 worth,,, I know we are all bad ass bikers who can take care of themselves but when the sh*t gets heavy, for eg. when 20+ dumd a## punk bangers decided to have it out on my street (not their normal haunt) and expended 30-40 rounds up and down my sidewalk, mere feet from my sons room, I was happy to see 7 squad cars come screaming in and toss arond the a$$holes. What could I do (even though I am armed?) I have chosen to be a firefighter and everyone thinks they are good guys , and they are, but they get tired of the same old drunk driver car accidents and od's and get callous to it all and if you were a fly on the wall you'd hear it in the way they cope, and cops are the same. They hear the same old sh*t from the same old a##holes and they put up barriers that are not attractive or particularly fair. But they do a tough mostly thankless job and I give them credit whether all deserve it or not( most do). JM edited by joplin on June 16, 2003 | ||
| Uwgriz |
My 1000 lb Electra Glide won't even trip most of them. For some reason, I've always had it stuck in my head that those sensors were activated by induction, not weight. Basically, a wire coil in the pavement that acts like a big metal detector. I vaguely remember hearing of someone marketing a big magnet that you could hang under your bike that was supposed to help this - at least until it started messing with the ignition system. I've also heard that stopping with both wheels on the saw cuts in the pavement (provided there are any) helps as well. Never really tried it out though. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Mikej, no posting of a limit on number of bikes in a parking spot, but I wouldn't take the time off of work to try and fight a $10 ticket !! Was just trying to point out rudeness of the "Officer" which I guess is the politically correct title. I think we were just kicking ourselves for having walked off with just a shrug of our shoulders instead of telling her off !! LOL I've only had two tickets in my life, each well deserved, but I've been stopped MANY times, twice here in Wisconsin since moving here two years ago but only received warnings !! And have only felt the enforcement officer was rude in two cases (one being Ms. Meter Maid), the rest have been really decent !! So I have no major complaints !! I do however feel the older I get, those officers are beginning to look like children !! CJM | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Yes... it is an inductive loop that senses a change in magnet field for lack of a better term. As in metal a magnet will stick to... so if you have alloy wheels... and the rest of the "magnet will stick to it metal" is 5 inches above the ground... and in the center of the ground loop... the bike is invisible to the loop induction-wise. If you can center the bike over the end of the loop and be near 3 of the four corners of the loop, you have a better chance of being sensed. That sometimes helps. I have a XB9S... say allow wheels and allow frame members... and invisible to a bunch of these things... I have one of those magnet thingies on my side stand... and it seems to help... but does not work every time... but for $12.00... it was worth the cost. SOMETIMES... it helps to lower your side stand... but if your rides has an engine kill switch like a Honda or BMW... it may create a different problem... or like my XB... with the stand down it cuts the engine when the clutch is released... so I skipped that idea. ____ | X | | X | " X = bike position in the loop" | X | | .. | | .. | | .. | |_.._| | ||
| Mikej |
CJ, Send in your payment along with a letter of protest and ask for a refund. If you don't want to show up in court then that is your only real option to get your voice heard. But sometimes it's just easier to not go someplace anymore. That's what happens sometimes, and the businesses end up wondering where everyone went. Sometimes life isn't fair, and sometimes there aren't enough rocks (from the movie). Here's a thought: CJ for a seat on the Tourism Board in Lake Geneva. Your platform: better tourist interraction. Your campaign song: Lovely Rita Meter Maid, by the Beetles. (Actual song title may vary depending on one's memory.) You just might get elected or appointed. And with your background you should be able to tell them exactly the net dollar loss to the local economy contrasted against parking fine revenue. Oh well, just a thought. Now if I could just shake this cold/flu bug I'll feel better. Poetic justice would be having an unreasonable officer sitting behind a bike in traffic waiting for a traffic light to trigger, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Dollars to doughnuts the officer would flip on his siren or get on the speaker and order the bike rider to move out of the way. Or better yet the judge that just pronounced judgement against said bike rider as he/she is heading to a luncheon. Ooooohhhhh I can be ornery at times. | ||
| S1joel |
I was wrong about the state. Heres the report from the AP. 2003-06-07 The Associated Press KNOXVILLE -- Beginning July 1, Tennessee motorcyclists can legally run red lights -- if they stop first and ``exercise due care'' -- under a bill signed into law by Gov. Phil Bredesen. Motorcyclists had complained they were forced to wait excessive periods of time at stop lights because sensors that control the lights did not recognize motorcycles, which are now made mostly of aluminum and fiberglass, not metal. For Nashville area resident and motorcyclist Steve Lundwall, the law can't begin too soon. ``Sometimes, I put down the kickstand and just wait (at a stoplight),'' said Lundwall, a business analyst in Nashville and state director of Concerned Motorcyclists of Tennessee. His group helped push the bill through the Legislature. The new law isn't as popular with the state's law enforcement and transportation community, who say it will be difficult to enforce. ``It almost takes it out of our hands to write a ticket for motorcycles running a red light,'' said Lt. Bob Lyons of Nashville's Traffic Division. ``How do we know if he's been sitting there or not?'' Sgt. Jeff Keeter, a motorcycle officer in Nashville for six years, said he's felt the frustration of being stuck at red lights but thinks the law may cause accidents. ``We'll have motorcycles trying to cross six lanes. ... Working traffic collisions, I don't have much confidence in drivers or riders. ``I can't believe this was even considered.'' The governor signed the bill because ``ultimately, the research did not show an increased safety risk,'' Bredesen spokeswoman Lydia Lenker said. At least one other state, Minnesota, has passed a similar law, the model for Tennessee's statute, said Wayne Shaub of Brentwood, legislative chairman for Concerned Motorcyclists of Tennessee. Bill Moore, chief engineer with the Tennessee Department of Transportation, earlier told a Senate committee there could be safety concerns. The Senate passed the bill 28-1 last month. ``We don't want to see anyone injured or killed. We don't have the greatest safety record in Tennessee, and we don't think this would improve it,'' Moore said. ``They're trading convenience for some safety issues.'' In 2000, there were 1,751 accidents involving motorcycles, with 65 fatalities. Fatalities could include pedestrians or motorists involved in the crash, Moore said. Tennessee Department of Transportation did not take an official position on the bill and has not done in-depth research on it, TDOT Commissioner Gerald Nicely said. Some senators, concerned the measure would give motorcyclists license to run red lights, added an amendment to tighten the law. It says bikers cannot use the law as a defense to run any red light they want by saying they believed the light was controlled by sensors that did not recognize their motorcycles. Sen. Bill Clabough, R-Maryville, sponsored the bill. If it makes you feel any better I sat over a sensor today for at least three to four minutes while at work today. It was 94 degrees and 95% humidity. I was wearing all black, triple knit pants, knee high leather boots, full helmet, and bullet proof vest. All while sitting on top of and engine that seems to be more efficient at roasting my legs than putting power to the rear wheel. (The Buell sticker my mechanic put on the rear fender didn't add any horsepower) I finally got the car behind me to pull up far enough to change the light. Joel | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Sean (Marlboro) is up here in the Mpls. MN area | ||
| Mikej |
Two choices: 1. Fix the problem. 2. Fix the complaints. The legislature took the less expensive route. Now, about those school buses that don't have seatbelts for children in mandatory seatbelt-law states. That too, I've been told, was for cost reasons. So why is it okay for a bus with 100 kids on board to not have seatbelts for anyone except the driver? Almost time to go home, maybe I'll run a light along the way. Wait, I'm in the car today, guess I'll just have to buckle up and wait them out. Bummer. Joel, I've done that before with cars behind me. Takes a bit sometimes for them to realize what is meant when you're motioning them to pull up a little closer. Although they have no problem figuring out my hand gestures when they are tailgating me on the freeway.  | ||
| Cjmblast |
And with your background you should be able to tell them exactly the net dollar loss to the local economy contrasted against parking fine revenue. Exactly, once I realized I had a $10 fine, not only did I not spend that money on another trinket (I got several), but it RUINED my shopping mood !!! Know how much revenue is lost when you ruin a woman's shopping mood !! LOL CJM | ||
| S1joel |
A few Sundays ago a group of bikers staged a very cool protest in the downtown area after being ticketed for parking multiple bikes in a single space. Early Sunday morning the bikers proceeded to the tourist/market area before anyone else showed up and parked one motorcycle per space, all the way down the street. Each bike was parked so as to take up the whole space. Sundays are free days on the meter so there were no fines or time limits. They managed to take up a large portion of the public parking in an area that has almost no parking spaces. I don't know if it did anything but it sure looked cool and got their point across. If you admit you have a parking problem, why ticket people who try to help the problem out. Joel  | ||
| M2me |
Sean (Marlboro) is up here in the Mpls. MN area If that's true then he should try to fight the ticket. Minnesota passed a law about this very issue within the past 6 months to a year (I don't remember exactly when). I don't know the exact wording but according to this quote from the AP article it should be similar to the Tennessee law.
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| Dave |
FWIW I was pulled for speeding this weekend here in IL. (The state is one long ass drag way anyhow) While admiring some of nature's tornado/high wind damage from last week, I didn't notice the IL State Police car comin' at me now paid much attention to my speed. These Buells seem to like 75-80 mph. He slowed as I did but he did a U-turn and came up behind me. I signaled for a while and pulled to a safe spot. Before I could even get my helmet off, he was telling me I was just going to get a written warning. We BS'd a bit as he was writing it up and discussed his past life as a diesel mechanic on a sub. He told me to be safe and sent me on my way with a friendly slap on the back. Turned out to be a really good guy. DAve | ||
| Sickquad |
10 people I graduate high school with, 5 years ago, are cops now. 8 out of the 10 have little mans disease. | ||
| S1joel |
That means they have been cops for no more than 2 years each. I bet 6 will mellow out, 3 will quit, and one will continue to be an ass. 18 officers in my unit (not including supervisors), 1 is a dick. I stop 10 cars for traveling at least 12mph over the limit in a residential area, pretty good bet three are going to be assholes. Its pretty flat across the board, at least 30% of Americans are jackasses, no matter what their profession. | ||
| Sickquad |
Joel, you are right, at least 30% of Americans are jackasses. | ||
| Marlboro |
Thanks for all the tips guys. I have tried to settle down but it has been difficult. This happened in Bloomington, MN - my home city. Brad- what exactly do you mean there might be retaliation? Will this cop start looking for me and giving me speeding tickets for going 1 mph over the speed limit if I write to his department that he was a total ass and that he wouldn't listen to me? I guess I will set up a court date and plead my case and see what happens. I just hate thinking that my tax dollars go to pay this guys salary. Doesn't the fine seem a bit steep too?? And yes, I don't want to over-generalize... This was certainly not a heroic cop of 9/11. The bottom line is that he pulled me over for doing nothing wrong and it might cost me $338. Police officers are supposed to be role models. People with a good moral stance. This guy didn't know his head from his ass, and to think that children look up to him makes me want to throw up. Normal citizens have absolutely no power. | ||
| Fssnoc2501 |
Marlboro, If you go to court, plead your case in a polite respectful manor, dress in a professional manor, and state the facts without embelishment, then the officer does not have grounds to retaliate. If he does then it is harrassment, and the department will have policies to deal with a complaint related to that. Most likely as was stated above he won't show up and your case will be that much easier. Good Luck, The American system of justice has many fine points, with a few (very few) real live jerks holding the ticket book. Ray | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Sean, You will NOT have to pay the insurance fine if you produce a valid certificate within 72 hours. Check that one out right away. Just call a traffic violations number at the court house. I'm not sure if there is one in bloomington or if you have to go down town. Wait, if memory serves, isn't there one in Edina by Southdale? No way you should have to fork over an $$ for either one of these. Especially if what John said about the law change is true. Make the phone call tomorrow. Or call me and we can discuss your options. Brad | ||
| Sportyeric |
Who says there's never a cop around when you need one? After a great evening of ripping up the backroads, my buddy, Jim, and I were half a mile from home, minding our speed in the city, when some young asshole pulls a left turn right in front of my buddy. I was already plotting the trajectory he was going to take over the trunk of the car. Jim managed to nail the brakes, swerve into the oncoming lane (no other close traffic), and miss the bastard. As I was braking, I was trying to decide whether to check on Jim, stopped just past the intersection, or chase the bugger down for a roadside drivers-ed session. When lo and behold, the car behind the careless twit was a cop car, who put on the lights and pulled him over. When Jim pulled up beside them, with a predictable mood, the officer said he should just leave and they would take care of it.The couple of twenty-somethings in the car(who probably would've wupped our butts)got a withering glare from the both of us and we left them to be dealt with, hopefully quite sternly, by the police. Had a good laugh about the unlikeliness of it all once the adrenalin wore off. | ||
| Bomber |
Lake Geneva doesn't WANT your business, CJ . . . avoid it at all costs, but I would follow Mikle's advice about requesting a refund . . . as for little man's syndrome, I'm sure some officers do have it (and some meter maids?), but the generalizations, coming from a guy that rides motorcycles, is very puzzling to me . . . . can you say irony? sure. I knew you could  | ||
| Rick_a |
I got pulled for speeding about a week ago. I knew this trooper liked to sit at this spot...so I slowed somewhat behind this car doing approximately the same speed...if not faster. Well, guess who got pulled over. Anyway, I didn't have my registration or insurance info on me...and he seemed pretty amused by my bike...making a slow 360 degree walk around. He then asks me if I knew that my LED plate brackets are illegal. "You can't have red or blue lights on a vehicle." "But they're on the back of the bike, just below the tail light!" Anyway, another car shows up and the female officer exclaims, "you just love the bikes, don't you?" That pretty much said it all. He said that I was "hauling ass", but let me go with a warning and I have to show my registration and insurance in court. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Lake Geneva doesn't WANT your business, CJ . . . avoid it at all costs, but I would follow Mikle's advice about requesting a refund I did forget to follow up with my story, we called the number on the ticket and told the person we spoke to about that incident. He told us he thought he knew who the "meter maid" was, and that she should not have acted that way, since she did represent their department !! He ask us to send in our tickets (which would identify the officer) and a note explaining what happened, and we would NOT have to pay the fine !! Pretty Cool !! CJM | ||
| Bomber |
CJ . . . great news, pal! Justice does win over the law sometimes! | ||
| Bad_pete |
If you go to court take a lawyer with you. The Judge likes to see the legal system used to its full extent. Their is usually very little attention paid to a citizen representing him/herself. After all it is you against the citing officer and the prosecutor. Both sworn officials of the city or state. If you retain a lawyer for about 150 bucks I can almost guarantee the citations will be dropped. Good luck! | ||
| Glitch |
On the way to work the other day, I was going about 50 in a 40. Up ahead a motorcycle cop was in a driveway with his radar gun out pointed at me. He looked up at me and motioned for me to slow down. As I get on down the hill I can see behind me he has a car pulled over. I guess I'm luck to live where do. You see a lot of "Look twice, save a life, motorcycles are everywhere" bumper stickers. Going slightly fast doesn't offend cops as much as "stunters". Ya wanna get in big trouble? Do a wheelie, stoppie, burnout, or some other stupid trick, and they'll come down on you as hard as they can. It's pretty bike friendly in my town, and the cops are good people. |
