| Author | Message | ||
     Deanh8 |
I run one of these in my race car and never liked the fact that the buell only holds so much oil. I have been wanting to add more oil to it (via an extra canister or bigger cooler) but im told the pump cant keep up. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTR-24-046/ These things are great on road race cars, and they have a 1QT kit for motorcycles. They keep the engine lubricated at startup and they keep steady oil pressure through out the entire rev range when it starts to drop at higher rpm's. Any one with any experience with a setup like this on a harley engine? Good, bad, or just a waste? Oil is the life of the engine, and in my experience with automobile racing you want as much oil as you can get to keep it less contaminated and to keep it cooler. It bothers me knowing I only have ~2qts on her, and it gets revved up and leaned over and in tons of hot traffic here in california. I dont see how it couldnt hurt. Some more info: http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions. pdf | ||
| Sifo |
I have the same concern about the small oil volume of the XB. I have my doubts about the unit you are talking about working well on an XB though. Those accumulators require a certain amount of pressure to fill then pump the oil back when pressure drops to a low point, right? Here's where I see the problem... The XB has roller bearings that don't require oil pressure only volume. The oil pump is designed to deliver volume, not pressure, especially at idle. I think you would find the accumulator pumping the oil back into the system every time you idle. I'm not even sure if they develop the pressure required to fill the accumulator. The other problem is that I would be concerned about the very limited volume in the oil system to hold the extra quart of oil when the accumulator empties. Having said all of that I don't know of any real issues with the oiling system beyond the oil pump gear that was prone to failure up to the '05 models. That one is an easy fix. So most of the concern about limited oil capacity can be addressed by more frequent oil changes if you feel the need. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Does cooler oil give a cooler cylinder head? Gotta link to Big-Ole-Oil's kit with high-performance cooler & thermostatic valve?  | ||
| Sloppy |
As per Sifo, the bottom end of an HD engine doesn't use sleeve bearings like most 4 strokes do. In fact, the bottom end of this engine is more like a 2 stroke with the use of roller bearings. Roller bearings have the advantage of requiring about 1000 times LESS oil film than sleeve bearings hence don't have the oil requirements. There are disadvantages, but that's for another discussion. So this point is important - as long as there is a supply of oil into the oil pump, there is NO NEED for a larger sump of oil. IF you want to extend your oil drain intervals or have issues with oil loss then a larger sump would make sense. | ||
| Deanh8 |
More oil is better in so many ways, not just to extend change interval. Heat and break down being a big one. The new Z06 corvettes have 12+ qt oil tanks, porsche's have had systems like that for years. What if I mount a small extra tank maybe about 3/4 qt over on the side above the primary. Will I run into issues with the oil pump not keeping up or what? | ||
| Sifo |
Changing the volume of the reservoir should not affect the volume or pressure the oil pump supplies to the engine. I'm not sure how you would plumb the return route with 2 oil tanks though. You have to figure out how it will all eventually return to the swingarm tank as well any drain back issues when the engine is shut down. I haven't put enough thought into the problem to think through how it should work. I know some have used bigger oil filters that are good for a few ounces more oil. Not much, but it's a bit more. I hesitate using automotive filters though just because of the differences in oiling systems that have already been discussed. | ||
| Sloppy |
More oil = more weight. And on the XB series, more weight on the UNSPRUNG weight of the suspension. Which is not good for handling. IF you have a problem with high bulk oil temperatures then a larger oil capacity can help with larger thermal mass (both good and bad). But I've measured bulk oil temperatures and worst temperatures I've ever gotten was ~ 210F during the summer. The reason wet sump vehicles have such large oil pans is to keep the oil pickup tube submerged... especially since the oil pump is in a vacuum rather than with the dry sump HD design where the oil is under pressure entering the oil pump. Bottom line: the XB/XL series a have very stout oil/lubrication design. The only problems I have found is with the oil pump gear - but that has been corrected around '04 and the scavange system which was corrected in '00 and improved around '06. It does take a different mindset to understand why Buell designed things the way they did - "Different in every sense" wasn't just a marketing theme, it is part of their design. You are welcome to change your lubrication system, but I'm not sure what benefit you are expecting to see. But I'm a big believer in Rob Muzzy's 10 Commandments - one of which is: know exactly what you need and why you need it prior to investing money into it. (Message edited by sloppy on May 20, 2010) | ||
| Sifo |
Or as my dad always explained to me... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  | ||
| Deanh8 |
I ride this thing hard, I guess it would just be piece of mind having more oil. Having a Z06 with a big dry sump system with 12qt's It erks me to know im only rocking 2 qts in that hot air cooled engine. | ||
| Mmcn49 |
A Right Side Air Scoop will reduce cylinder temperatures quite a bit. This will probably also lower oil temperatures as well. I think you’re worrying about a non-issue. If you use any V-Twin synthetic you should not have any problems. One day last summer the temperature in the Puget Sound area was over 100. Some Bank clocks/thermometers were showing 110. I rode my bike in the hottest part of the day over a mountain pass with no issues. Other than an RSS I don’t think you need to do anything. As stated earlier in the thread, these bikes don’t have Babbitt or sleeve bearings, and I believe have fairly low oil circulation rates. Some forum members have installed a small muffin fan inside the oil cooler cover. Others have installed larger coolers. Installing a fan or larger oil cooler may not achieve much. Below is a link to a much larger cooler. http://www.kompo-tech.com/catalog/product_info.php ?cPath=24_36&products_id=508 | ||
| Sloppy |
ZO6 = 7L with 12 quarts XB12/XB9 = 1.2/0.9L with 2 quarts. 7L/1.2L = 5.833 7L/0.9L = 7.77 12Q/2Q = 6.0 Ratio's are AMAZINGLY close, no? And according to the ratio's, you can argue you've got TOO MUCH oil in the XB9 compared to what the Z06's carry... Isn't math great!  |
