| Author | Message | ||
     Paul_in_japan |
My 05 Firebolt has developed a new noise that has me worried.The noise has a rhythm that gets faster with engine speed. At idle it sounds like someone shaking some toothpicks in tin about once every second, chic ka(pause)chic ka(pause)chic ka etc. At 3000rpm its up to four times a second. I had the primary chain checked at the dealer today, he said its fine and to ride it an see what happens. Its a bit hard to hear over the Drummer so I might have to put the stock muffler back on and see how it sounds. Anyone have any clues before I start hunting for the cause. The bike seems to be running fine and doesn't make the noise while rolling with the engine off. The noise does appear to be coming from somewhere in the engine though. Any help? | ||
| Greg_e |
I got one of those myself, need to record a video tonight and see if someone can help identify the source (pretty sure it is lifters on mine). | ||
| G234146 |
I had the same issue on my 06XB and it was the primary chain tensioner that was loose. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/155801.jpg | ||
| Kbaddict |
If it gets faster with engine speed than it's probably your push rods. Any v twin, especially harleys are going to make this noise. You probably noticed it for the first time and now you pick up on it more often. If you can hear at a stand still while reving your engine then it's obviously not your primary chain tensioner. give it an oil change and see if it gets quieter. Otherwise it's normal to hear the ticking. (Message edited by kbaddict on May 18, 2010) | ||
| Greg_e |
With engine running, the primary chain is still moving because the transmission is the part that takes things in and out of gear (including the clutch that is on the transmission side of the chain). So it could still be the chain in his case (maybe mine too). | ||
| Paul_in_japan |
Ok here's a video of the noise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-1zbiWIaI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-1zbiWIaI Is definitely not a normal noise. Ive been riding it everyday for the last 3 and a half years have become quite used the array of noises that come from it. This one is new. The bike had an oil change about 1000miles ago. The noise speeds up as the engine speed increases but it is still slow enough to count the individual 'pulses' right up until about 5000rpm. This leeds me to think that it is either a big wheel/gear/sprocket, a chain or a very slow revolving part as any smaller revolving part would 'rub' more often creating a constant noise or vibration instead of the grinding countable pulses. The other strange this is that the bike is running beautifully. Constant idle, smooth acceleration etc. So what gives? Surely Im not the first to encounter this? Any idea? | ||
| Hogs |
GET yourself a 5/8 dia hose and stick one end in your EAR and go around the engine/primary and hold it to different parts, and see/hear where it gets the loudest.... Sounds louder when you are close to the front of the engine,But hard to tell stuff like this from looking/listening to a video. | ||
| Blake |
Sounds like bad news. I'd not run it any more. Easy stuff first: Fuel pump noise? Drain oil into clean container, inspect for metalic contamination. Remove and inspect oil filter, filter media for metal debris. Check primary chain tension/tensioner. Check clutch. Pull the oil pump and take a look up inside at the drive gear. Remove rocker box covers and inspect rockerbox/rockers. Remove rocker boxes and then remove cam/gear-case cover; inspect cam gear-case for any evidence of a problem. | ||
| Kalali |
My god Blake...You are scaring the heck out of the rest of us here...! My ultimate solution to engine noise(s) was a loud exhaust. Works perfectly. | ||
| Blake |
The noise isn't a normal one. Ignoring it could prove disastrous. Too easy to check the oil pump. | ||
| Yool |
Exhaust Gasket??? | ||
| Brumbear |
I would go with the oil pump first but try as best as possible to isolate the niose. Couls be a worn valve spring or even a bad cam bushing. You really want to get a thethascope to try to eliminate stuff first then crack her open | ||
| Paul_in_japan |
Ive got the guys on another forum thinking that it is the front connecting rod. This sounds like an expensive fix. Anyone have a ballpark figure on what the parts cost to fix this? There must be a lot of gaskets and stuff to replace when you get this deep into the engine. | ||
| Greg_e |
It should be about double the rate if it is connecting rod, remember that the crank rotates twice for every cam rotation. If it was crank related then you should hear the noise as a much more frequent occurrence. If the engine is idling at 1000rpm, you should hear it 1000 times a minute. Not knowing how fast the oil pump turns, it could be that as even cam noise should be faster than what you are hearing. Yours sounds like approximately once a second at idle (1100rpm?), so what turns that slowly? Primary chain should be moving at idle speed. Cams should be moving a half idle or about the same as the exhaust pulses. Fuel pump should be a high frequency (which it sounds like you have). Clutch would be spinning at engine RPM and should be solid anyway. Transmission input shaft should be at engine rpm plus or minus whatever the gearing provides. Transmission output shaft should be at zero (in neutral). That list doesn't really leave a lot left to check unless it is something like every forth rotation the lifter/cam/rocker/valve is having an issue or every eighth rotation the conn. rod/piston is having an issue. So back to the question, how fast does the oil pump turn? Or the gears connected to driving the pump? (Message edited by Greg_E on May 20, 2010) (Message edited by Greg_E on May 20, 2010) | ||
| Paul_in_japan |
Greg E, thats the kind of math I was wondering about. What spins that slowly? I thought perhaps if the primary chain rubbed at one particular point then it would take a while for it to come around again thus the delay. The other idea is that its a combination of things that only occurs once every X revolutions. 1000RPM would be 16 times a second. Imagine 2 two things rotating at 16 rpS that only coincide occasionally causing the noise. I dont know. Theres another guy with a similar sounding noise who also posted a video, here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUwMEgmIsxI He has since stripped the top end and discovered his front connecting rod having room to move in the up and down direction. Im still praying for a primary chain problem or oil pump something easy to fix. Wouldnt the engine warning lamp come on if the oil pump was failing? Wouldnt the bike run poorly if the front connecting rod was screwed? | ||
| Blake |
Conrod bearings going bad can make noise only every other rotation due to pressures present during power stroke. Doesn't sound like conrod to me, but I'm no expert. Could be bearings going though. Check the simple stuff first. Oil analysis may prove revealing. | ||
| Greg_e |
That's true, the conn. rods and bearing could have a different cycle depending on whether it was compression or exhaust which would put it in the 8 seconds range. Here's an idea... Check to make sure your spark plugs are tight. I did once have a car that would make a similar noise that had a loose plug and it only leaked every few strokes. Wicked long shot but another easy one to check. I wonder if it could the same with an exhaust leak which only vibrates out of position every few rotations. Another long shot but again easy to check. I'm kind of dreading starting my bike to make a recording now, it would be my luck that it is something that will require a complete teardown with machine work to fix it. | ||
| Brumbear |
oh yeah loose plugs will do that good call I would check that. Also the valve springs compress and spin so it may be something like a worn keeper or cracked /cracking valve spring but i would think you might get a little power loss with a valve spring problem maybe not though | ||
| Paul_in_japan |
Just had a chat with the Buell mechanic. He says he doesnt think its the engine. He says the bikes are pretty sensitive and if the conrod bearing had gone it wouldnt be idling and running as well as it is. He says it could be something in the mission like a crankshaft bearing. Either way he says Id be better off buying a used engine than stripping it all down. Ill be cleaning the bike this week, putting the normal muffler back on so I can hear it better and deciding from there. | ||
| M1combat |
Bike'll run great with plenty of power with a stretched front conrod. It'll sound like pinging that just won't go away. Yes that's an expensive fix  . Sounds like bent pushrod, loose rocker, bad spring, bad cam bearing, destroyed cam lobe, collapsed lifter... something like that. (Message edited by m1combat on May 21, 2010) |
