| Author | Message | ||
     186bigtwin |
Has there been a XR1200 spec race yet ?? | ||
| 99buellx1 |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=39640 "The first race will be just North of Harly-Davidson's Milwaukee headquarters at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI." | ||
| Trojan |
The first round of the UK XR1200 series took place at Oulton park a couple of weeks ago. As I predicted, the ex-GP racers in the field cleared off at the front leaving the guys who had actually spent their own money on racing to fight out the lower placings. What could have been a really close and exciting race turned into a boring procession won by Jeremy McWilliams (surprise surprise!). The Italian series runs two classes for pro's and amateurs so that close racing is assured, and this is a far better idea than our 'star studded' series in the UK and AMA. Unfortunately the UK series so far only has 20 entries so can't split like the Italian one can (48 riders+ in that one). The UK result was: 1. Jeremy McWilliams (ex GP rider) 2. Mike Edwards (ex Macau GP winner and TT winner) 3. Dijon Compton (ex British Superbike rider) 4. James Webb (a long way back) 5. Torquil Paterson. Sean Emmett (ex GP works Suzuki rider) had a engine blowup when in 2nd place and Lee Gourley (UK top classic racer and historic GP winner) crashed fighting for 3rd. The only way this is going to be an exciting series is to make the top guys start at the back every race  | ||
| 186bigtwin |
You're right about "the Pros" but what can ya do, they will probably get bored with it and go away soon, Then it will be back to racing like in the old 883 series, just faster................Alot of young upcoming talent came through that series......... | ||
| Simond |
It looked like it was about to get interesting as Lea Gourley had cleared Mike Edwards and looked able to close on McWilliams before he crashed. | ||
| Reepicheep |
(Edited. Never mind.) (Message edited by reepicheep on May 14, 2010) | ||
| Buell2001b |
isn't this a Buell site!!! | ||
| Jens |
Trojan, as somebody who live from selling parts for these bikes, be happy that some names are willing, for money of course, to show up in that class. It add some attention. An attention what is needed because from the view of motorsport this is just scrap. Scrap is the series, the bike and the company what try to surf on that sport attitude without any serious engagement from the motorsport view. Itīs a wannabeshow about dollars, ROI (they offer now free parts, leathers etc. in Europe to get rid of these "breathing race history" shithouses) and catching young riders to tune up the companys customersage average, maybe from 63 to 59... And yes this is a Buellsite... Jens | ||
| Trojan |
isn't this a Buell site!!! I thought this was the 'general' racing thread which includes other racing other than just Buells? Why not mention the H-D racing? | ||
| Slaughter |
Many of us are still angered by Hardley's treatment of Buell... but this IS a racing section. If it's ONLY for Buell - let's stop the MotoGP and WSBK discussions too. Some of us still have friends within the Hardley organization and dealerships (one or two) who were always a bit miffed by "THE ATTITUDE" toward Buell as seen in dealer meetings. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan, as somebody who live from selling parts for these bikes, be happy that some names are willing, for money of course, to show up in that class. It add some attention. An attention what is needed because from the view of motorsport this is just scrap. Scrap is the series, the bike and the company what try to surf on that sport attitude without any serious engagement from the motorsport view. Itīs a wannabeshow about dollars, ROI (they offer now free parts, leathers etc. in Europe to get rid of these "breathing race history" shithouses) and catching young riders to tune up the companys customersage average, maybe from 63 to 59... And yes this is a Buellsite WHAT? Racing is racing. It doesn't matter if it is on a Yamaha R1 or a MZ250. I understand that it is obviously not your cup of schnapps (although I seem to remember you were happy to race a XL Sportster in the past?) but so what. Harley have put their money into running a televised national series being run as a support race for both AMA and British Superbikes, so good on them for that. It may surprise you to learn that a not all the riders are paid to race in this series, and that some even spent their own money on buying the bikes to race (in both UK and US series), and I don't remember you complaining about Jeremy McWilliams riding for money when he rode for Buell at Daytona?. It may also surprise you that a lot of the spectators who watched the first round were thoroughly enjoyed the sight of some different bikes racing rather than just more faired 600/100's and were quite impressed with the XR1200 racing. There is nothing wrong with a company supporting racing (which is more than Buell ever did in the UK at least), regardless of what is being raced. | ||
| Jens |
Iīve no problem with Jeremy at all, he ride for money thats his profession. I got a problem with a company that killed their sportbike branch and now try to marketing a 270 kg tractor as a sportbike. But you are right NOW for that is money there.... Jens | ||
| Blake |
I couldn't have said it any better Jens. Erik's racing hobby was poo on the H-D shoe. But now H-D are all about racing a bunch of slow antiquated cruisers? Gag. | ||
| Court |
I could not have said it better Jens or Blake. I am REALLY proud of Jens for picking up the banner and doing such a spectacular job. I know how proud Buell folks around the world are of the way you have represented Buell Racing. Harley-Davidson is an embarrassing former icon that looks like a corporate monster with a head cut off. I suspect that the screwing they gave Buell will pale in comparison to what they are about to do in the next 6 months. HD is a shadow of what it used to be.
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| 46champ |
It will be all better a couple of years when the new Eric Buell Motorcycle Co is building there own motorcycles and were racing to support the new company. Way to go Jens your the first! Then we can look at the efforts of the company that just doesn't quite get it, without the rage that we feel. | ||
| Trojan |
Feelings are obviously still running high and vitriol still flowing over the H-D treatment of Buell (for whatever reason). However, try to forget the lynch mob mentality, and being objective it is a good thing that H-D (and every other company that support some kind of racing) are putting money and effort into racing during a recession when every penny counts and plenty of manufacturers are pulling out of racing or reducing comittments. In actual fact the XR1200 series really doesn't cost H-D a great deal as bikes have to be bought and the series is fully sponsored for prize money etc. Buell could have done a similar deal to run a one make series over the years but never did (although they had planned to run a one make XB9R series in 2003 in the UK but then couldn't supply enough bikes!) | ||
| Jens |
>HD is a shadow of what it used to be. Yes Court, and thats a shame! But, excuse my clear words, I could not eat enough to puke enough when I now hear things like "Buell havent supported Racing in the UK but now H-D does support Racing". Buell Europe (located in UK) and their national satellites in the different countries were (and still are) part of H-D Europe and all these decisions were made by H-D. Today the same people try to blame "Buell" for their own wrong strageties. These highly payed blockers leaded the way with their ignorant handling of the Buellbrand to give Mr. Wandell the backround to close down the plant in East Troy. Jens | ||
| Trojan |
"Buell havent supported Racing in the UK but now H-D does support Racing". Like it or not, that is a fact. We raced Buells in the UK for long enough to know how much (or how little) they wanted to be involved in racing here in the UK, and it was certainly a big contrast to the Buell racing involvement in the USA. Buell may have been under the H-D 'umbrella' but could make their own decisions on race support etc. The fact is that they didn't want to support racing here in the UK at any time during the last ten years and didn't employ anyone at Buell UK who was even interested in racing. Regardless of the reasons H-D decided to close down Buell and the political fall out from that, you can't blame H-D for Buell UK/Europe not getting involved in racing when they had the chance over the last 10 years +. We received great support from the Buell factory and from Erik himself over the years, but that was often in spite of the UK importers who were absolutely not interested in any race support. In 2003 Buell UK had the opportunity to run an one make XB9R race series supporting British Superbikes. Everything was inplace to allow this to happen and the only thing that stopped it was that they couldn't supply enough bikes. Nothing to do with the mothership as far as I know, but it could have been. Either way it was an opportunity lost and one that should have been grabbed with both hands if there was any interest in racing outside the US. | ||
| Jens |
Trojan you donīt get it, there is (there was never) an independent acting Buell UK. There are individuals with funny titels, like brandmanager, but in the consequence H-D and H-D management made and make the decisions. "Buell Germany" never supported me, but Erik did, as he supported you, as you point out right. It was on us to make something out of that. Try to get from Ducati or Honda factory support... We must not agree. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan you donīt get it, there is (there was never) an independent acting Buell UK. There are individuals with funny titels, like brandmanager, but in the consequence H-D and H-D management made and make the decisions. But I do get it. Buell UK and Buell Europe had their own budget for advertising and promotion that was entirely separate from anything that H-D did. It was from this budget that they could have supported racing but they chose not to and to spend it in other areas. It is all water under the bridge now and isn't worth arguing over as far as I am concerned. Try to get from Ducati or Honda factory support... We were offered far more support from Kawasaki if we chose to race their bikes instead of Buells, but we didn't because it was only Buells we were interested in racing. | ||
| Anonymous |
Trojan, You really don't get it. There never was a Buell-controlled marketing and distribution organization. No matter what title people had on their business cards in Europe, they worked for H-D Europe, and H-D Europe made the decisions on how to spend Buell marketing money. The amount of money spent to promote the XR1200 compared to, say, the Buell Lightning is really telling in that regard. The amount of money spent to develop the XR was more than spent on the 1125R, and the amount to market it in Europe was more than spent on all Buell marketing in Europe that year. | ||
| Trojan |
I give up | ||
| Firstbuell |
OK, can we look forward now, in this, an XR1200 thread ? I'm so pissed @ H-D that I refuse to go there, but the V&H series might be lotsa fun & I can't wait to see which riders & teams step up...... | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, Anonymous has it spot on. One of the many issues with selling Buells in Britain was that H-D people controlled the entire process. Some of these folks were invested in seeing Buell fail which certainly explains them not only not supporting racing but actually screwing it up. Some of the areas in Europe where there was success involved individuals who were enthusiastic about Buell. Unfortunately these folks were few and far between. Most just wanted to get back to H-D without messing up a career path. | ||
| Black |
Forgive a stupid question...but I was under the impression that XR1200 racing was a Vance and Hines effort. I didn't think Harley was supporting racing at all. What is the real story? (Message edited by black on May 18, 2010) | ||
| Court |
>>>>"Buell havent supported Racing in the UK but now H-D does support Racing". That's pure bullshit. The folks responsible (or irresponsible) for Buell Racing in the UK were all Harley-Davidson folks. One of them, by the way, was one of the "bad players" throwing Buell under the bus. The HD UK people did not like racing or many of the racers in the UK and I think it, based on what I've read, was made pretty clear. The racers, rather than do anything about it, pretty much turned into whiners. Jens and the folks in Germany however pretty much told them to screw themselves and their bad attitude, went out raced and won. Jens is still doing it and having amazing success. Be mindful that ERIK BUELL RACING did better this last weekend, working out of Erik's own pocket, than Harley-Davidson did during the entire sum of the years and $50,000,000 they pissed around with the ridiculously managed VR-1000. If you are stupid . . . doing stupid things twice as fast . . . . well, you don't need to be a college professor . . even a construction worker can understand. Court | ||
| Trojan |
The racers, rather than do anything about it, pretty much turned into whiners. By 'racers' Court I must assume that you are referring to me, seeing as we were the ONLY people seriously willing to race a Buell in the UK over the last 10 years. Like Jens, this cost us huge amounts of money (that we were quite happy to spend) over the 3 seasons we raced a Buell here. I could have run 2 or 3 Suzukis competitively for the same kind of investment but wanted to run Buells to promote our business but mostly because I was a Buell enthusiast. We got absolutely nothing in in way of support from H-D/Buell GB/UK (not even discount on parts). In fact at times it seemed as if they were deliberately being as obstructive as possible rather than helping. I'm not suggesting that we had any entitlement to support as we are not a franchised dealer, but if I was the ONLY team racing a Honda/Yamaha/kawasaki etc in a country you can bet your bottom dollar there would have been something there. Erik and the guys at the factory were fantastic and I have never suggested otherwise, but my frustrations with Buell UK grew to the point where I felt I could no longer carry their lack of commitment to the brand by waving the Buell flag for them unsupported. Why should a tiny company like ours put all the effort in when the entire UK franchised network did nothing? Most of my attempts to get any kind of support from Buell/H-D UK were in fact requests to support the UK Thunderbike race series rather than trying to get anything for ourselves. As US readers will know the Thunderbike series was the primary race series for Buell in the USA for years, and we set up the UK series in order to give poepple here a viable series to race XB's in. It may be that Buell UK were in fact just H-D puppets, in which case my frustration was with H-D UK for not supporting what was in effect their own products. You have to remember that Buell & H-D were comfortably in bed together at that time and that regardless of who is to blame now it was Buell UK's job to promote the brand over here. Whoever was responsible for budgets it was clear that racing (unless it was drag racing) would get no support at all. This was at a time when Buell were supposedly trying to woo owners of other sportsbikes over to their bikes remember. Buell UK were very happy to publish race reports on the Buell website when we did well, but were never willing to support racing (not just my team) in any way whatsoever. Part of the frustation was seeing how much contingency money and sponsorship was available for Buell racers in the US at the same time. Unfortunately it seems that ANY criticism of anything done by Buell over the years is seen as whining, so if that makes me a whiner then so be it. (Message edited by trojan on May 19, 2010) | ||
| Court |
>>>Unfortunately it seems that ANY criticism of anything done by Buell over the years is seen as whining, so if that makes me a whiner then so be it. Don't take it personally. You did what you could. You were dealing with Harley-Davidson' "B Team". Europe was seen as a "vacation assignment" not a real job. Folks went not with the hope of excelling but simply waiting out the time to their next assignment. You got screwed in the deal and so did Buell. The enthusiasm, and tremendous success, in Germany is a reflection of the German's basically telling HD to go screw themselves, a core group of enthusiastic owners and owner clubs, a couple key dealers (See Buell Koln) and folks like Jens who are passionately focused on success and unwilling to let someone screw them out of their vision of success. I may try to wrangle a seat to Germany on the upcoming ERIK BUELL & THE THUNDERBOLTS European mini-tour. I'd like to thank the Germans. | ||
| Slaughter |
Early brain dump from Slaughter's random thought generator: Buell has NEVER been about Hardley - but has been about the Riders, the (very few) Buell Dealers and about Buell MoCo. Maybe if there were more SKULLS, Do-Rags Flames, wife-beater shirts, pot-bellies and beer used in Buell Racing, Hardley could have seen fit to provide more direct support instead of active resistance since performance and handling are anathema to what Harley represents. (sorry about my attitude) I have an interest in watching the XR series - not because of the involvement of Hardley - but because it's a new racing class. The old 883 series was ridiculous. TOTAL engine tear-downs and flywheel/crank replacement each race weekend (or race day). The new series is a better show-case for Vance and Hines than it is for Hardley. One-design racing is NOT a statement about a manufacturer's commitment to racing but about their commitment to publicity. | ||
| Buell2001b |
Trojan If you have not been informed HD killed Buell I don't see why a Buell owner want to support anything that HD is going to make money on. I use to tell people buy HD when they owned Buell, but now I tell them Buy Victory or any of the other cruisers brand. |
