| Author | Message | ||
     Rodrob |
In setting up my Showa cartridges, I encountered excessive sticktion in setting sag. I removed my through the axle type sliders, loosened the pinch bolts and adjusted the forks on the axle and the problem went away. I suggest that you make sure your forks are aligned and the pinch bolts tightened prior to installing the sliders as they put lateral force on the forks and can pull them out of alignment. Do not over tighten the sliders. I suggest snug with locktight. | ||
| Jdugger |
I had this very conversation with the owner/designer of Dark Horse a while back. I've found, like you, through-axle sliders can cause binding. I drilled mine, and then loosely tighten them and safety wire them in place. | ||
| Blake |
They won't cause any binding if you tighten the pinch bolts before installing the sliders. Just like Rodrob describes above. Installation instructions recommend just 1/4 turn from snug and specify use of thread locker. | ||
| Nightmare1 |
Jdugger, do you have a pic of how you did that? | ||
| Blake |
Tightened mine by hand, no thread locker. No issue after thousands of miles. With thread locker, no need to drill anything. | ||
| Jdugger |
> With thread locker, no need to drill anything If that were true, it would be allowed in race leagues. I agree, a drop of blue is a wonderful thing, but it ain't safety wire.  | ||
| Stirz007 |
Jdug - Not sure, but my guess is that the reason safety wire is required and Loc-Tite doesn't meet rules is simply that you cannot visually verify Loc-Tite. Safety wire is right there in your face, so easy to verify. | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Stirz. You are exactly correct. Furthermore, nothing on a new Buell motorcycle comes safety-wired. Lots of fasteners on new Buell motorcycles are secured by thread locking compound as are fasteners on multi-million dollar equipment like oh the Space Shuttle. Jdugger doesn't know what he's talking about. Besides that, there is already a hole drilled in one slider to allow engagement via small screwdriver or allen wrench. The hole is however more effectively drilled into the edge of the slider, not it's face. (Message edited by blake on May 14, 2010) | ||
| Avc8130 |
"Jdugger doesn't know what he's talking about. " Let's not scare Jdugger away. He is quite the 1125 resource. We use thread locker quite often at work. The equipment I work on is mounted on artillery weapons and withstands shock during firing and vibration during transport. Loctite blue seems to do well in these applications. One important aspect to remember is that it does not stick to itself well. Threads must be CLEAN before application, both the male and female, to ensure full bond. We do use lock wire on critical fasteners. With lock wire, it ISN'T backing off. This is why it is required on a race bike, not JUST as much as a visible aid. ac (Message edited by avc8130 on May 15, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
You still need the hole on the edge to tighten the slider, and I found it easier to mill the face to get a flat edge to drill through than on the side. It makes threading the wire easier. Also, keep in mind I don't cut that safety wire to service the wheel. There's enough slack in it to be able to loosen the slider and pull the other side, which is safety wired to the pinch bolts which I have to wire *anyway*. So, in this fashion, I'm able to service the wheel without redoing that safety wire each time. I have never had a slider back out using only threadlock, but the race orgs absolutely require sliders and pinch bolts to be safety wired, and at least the CMRA rules explicitly state locking compounds are not acceptable. Take your argument up with the CMRA or the FAA, but despite how great the modern thread locking compounds are, safety wire is pretty friggin' fool proof and there are reasons it's still used. Plus, you can't thread lock your oil drain plug.  | ||
| Nightmare1 |
Thanks Jdugger! | ||
| Blake |
"If that were true, it (thread locker) would be allowed in race leagues. " Wrong. There is no way for the tech inspectors to verify the presence of thread locker. Thus safety wire is required on the fasteners that they deem need it. "safety wire is pretty friggin' fool proof and there are reasons it's still used." It's used on racing motorcycles so that the inspectors may visually verify that the fasteners of interest are indeed secured. "Plus, you can't thread lock your oil drain plug. " Of course you can. You just need to drain and clean the threads and/or use a thread locker designed to tolerate oily surfaces. Racing organizations do not require sliders to be safety-wired as far as I know. Never seen them safety wired at any CMRA race that I've been in or witnessed. (Message edited by blake on May 15, 2010) | ||
| Steve899 |
Blakes got it right | ||
| Avc8130 |
I see steve889 has read the forum rules AND understands. | ||
| Steve899 |
I have? | ||
| Zac4mac |
There's 2 main reasons to safety wire - 1) To keep a fastener tight, like a reservoir cap or a pinch bolt. Safety wire works great for that by keeping a set tension on the fastener. Thread-lock can't do that. 2) Retention, keeping small parts from falling off and littering the track. Kinda like what Jim did with his sliders. Can't believe y'all are arguing about thread-lock vs. safety-wire. What about Teflon tape??? :0 Z | ||
| Froggy |
Mighty Putty > All. | ||
| Jdugger |
I Teflon tape the boys before each ride. The sweat just slides right off. And, when I get home, my tea bag is silky smooth. No need for thread lock there. | ||
| Steve899 |
safety wire ,you can see the bolt is tight. locktite is ok , but as you ride around the race track you think "did I clean that oil off those treads before locktite" safety wire it's on, it's working. Teflon tape , never tried that for locking bolts, does it work? | ||
| Jdugger |
> Teflon tape , never tried that for locking bolts, does it work No, it's a reference to another inane, worthless debate not unlike thread lock vs safety wire. btw, what kind of oil do you use? Oh, and don't forget to answer with controversial passion. | ||
| Avc8130 |
Olive. | ||
| Blake |
I gotta stick up for Dugger, pretty sure he meant what oil do you use in your Buell, not what you use on yourself. >>> inane, worthless debate Seems quite informative and valuable to me. Jdugger: Do you safety wire your axles, brake calipers, drain plugs, case bolts, rear drive sprocket bolts, and all the other exposed fasteners on the bike that racing rules require be safety wired? If no, why not? | ||
| Jdugger |
> Jdugger: Do you safety wire your axles, brake calipers, drain plugs, case bolts, rear drive sprocket bolts, and all the other exposed fasteners on the bike that racing rules require be safety wired? I'm presently working on getting my '08 set up to be legal by CMRA rules. I *believe* CMRA is going to give me a pass on the Axles and Rear Sprocket (pulley, since I run the belt drive) bolts, but I haven't had a chance to ask the tech guy about it yet. I'll be really surprised if they make me safety wire the axles given the design, but do FULLY expect I'll have to wire the pinch bolts. Just talking about safety wire (ignoring other requirements like catch bottles and a belly pan) I have wired the following: Front and rear sliders Oil Drain Plugs -- L/R Oil Galley Plugs Oil Lines -- pass because they are a secured fastener OEM Oil Cooler Bolt -- pass as above Oil screen (bottom of motor) Dipstick TDC plug Oil Filter bolts Radiator Caps Axle Pinch Bolts Front and rear brake caliper bolts (I use 1/4" longer grade 8 caliper bolts on the front with a SS spacer) Engine Case Sliders (Required on some I4 models, not all, but I'm doing mine, too, just in case) Not all engine case bolts are required. I also safety wire (or use jamb nuts where reasonable) the shifter, brake, controls and levers, and other parts subject to heavy use and vibration. That's just for peace of mind. I use thread lock on all the body bits that I don't have to service regularly. That stuff works great, for sure, I just don't trust it on lubricant-bearing fasteners or punch bolts. | ||
| Blake |
It's a pity that Oak Hill Raceway isn't being run this year. I'd show up just to help pit for ya. | ||
| Blake |
The Loctite for oily surfaces is a different formula than what you typically find at the local hardware store. It's also more expensive. | ||
| Jdugger |
> It's a pity that Oak Hill Raceway isn't being run this year It's not going to ever be run again, either. I never got a chance to get on it, sadly, but a lot of my pals did. Having not been on it, I also don't miss it. It's short, tight, and narrow, and isn't really ideal for a modern superbike, anyway. Even before the track was sold, CMRA was beginning to cut certain classes from competition there, and focus more on the minis at that track. There's a ton of history and insight on the CMRA board if it's a topic you are curious about. | ||
| Blake |
Actually the status according to track manager remains uncertain. I was out there recently. >>> CMRA was beginning to cut certain classes from competition there, and focus more on the minis at that track. That is inaccurate. They never ran big bike endurance is all. Everything else was running there as far as I know. Per Ben Spies: "If you are fast at Oak Hill, you can be fast anywhere." | ||
| Niceguyeddy |
"Mighty Putty."  | ||
| Jdugger |
Go ahead and keep your hopes up on OHR... my $10 says it's done. Family trust/probate issues, a desire by some of CMRA riders not to return, etc. I know there's a TON of history at that place, but it's hardly the same class of facility as Cresson or ECR... It's not even in the ballpark. You are probably right about the classes -- I don't doubt I got it confused. It would be easy to know for sure -- just check last years' race results. I'd always heard that quote attributed to Hayden... | ||
| Blake |
Thank you for your permission to be optimistic.  I got that statement from Ben himself at Laguna Seca, 2005. >>> "I know there's a TON of history at that place, but it's hardly the same class of facility as Cresson or ECR... It's not even in the ballpark." Which is why any CMRA member can rent the place for just $75/day. That will be one of the biggest losses for the CMRA. Danny Eslick raced there last year. It's a huge loss to the CMRA. I'd be surprised if the number of CMRA competitors who don't feel that way amounts to any kind of significant percentage. (Message edited by blake on May 17, 2010) |
