| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_dude |
All this oil change talk has me wondering, does any one use those permanent oil filters that American Sport Bike sells for about $150? I see another one on ebay to. Benefits are obvious(never buy another oil filter), but what about the cons? More up front money, ya, but what about performance? Do they work as good as they sound?? thanks | ||
| Arcticktm |
I do not see the justification, myself. Oil filters are inexpensive. I have a hard time believing these will filter as well as cellulose filters. If they can, than my other concern would be that you never can really get it clean again, and restriction or contamination would be an issue. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | ||
| Satori |
I havent looked into Al's but I know most dont filter as well as a disposable. Last time I looked into them, they filtered down to 30-40 microns. anything 20 or over is going to do damage. Plus you probably will never recover the cost. and the afore mentioned difficulty of getting them properly cleaned. Save the money for anouther farkle, just my .02 | ||
| Crempel |
I have had the Scott's version of the reusable filter installed since my first oil change. It is very easy to clean and if you keep your bike long enough, it will pay for itself. I know several BMW riders who have used the filter on several different bikes, putting hundreds of thousands of miles on them and they swear by them. If you only plan to keep your bike for 20-30k miles, then of course there is no point. According to the website data the best of the paper filters only filter down to about 90 microns but these go to 30ish. One area that I think is very true is the ability of the steel filter to withstand extreme heat. I live in the desert southwest and this could possibly be an issue. Paper filters have glue in them that can fail in high heat situations, which could be catastrophic. Scott claims that they flow more 80% plugged that a new paper filter.. The Scotts version is about $140 while the Buell/Harley filter is $7-10, depending on where you buy it. Will is pay for itself? No, probably not, unless you have a lubrication related failure that you can attribute to the filter. Do I think its a better filter? Yes. Plus they look very cool. Nice farkle. Sort of like a $500 GPS won't get you anywhere a $2 map can't. http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?Part Type=3&Bike=Buell | ||
| Rwven |
And the WallyWorld SuperTech filter is $2.68. So it'll take me 261,194 miles to break even!  | ||
| Uly_dude |
Thanks Crempel. This is what I was looking for, someone who's actually used one. This is pretty much what I was reading to, but I don't believe everything I read. You're not a Scott's sales rep are you??  I also think it would give me some added protection. I run without the chin fairing due to an aftermarket pipe. That oil filter is just hanging out there, thin metal and all. How long would it take to drain all the oil out in the middle of the woods if you nicked it I wonder..... | ||
| Nobuell |
According to WIX they filter essentially all particles 25 microns and larger (21 nominal). They will capture a large percentage of smaller particles. The 90 microns stated for a good paper filter is not correct. At $5.00 per filter it will take a lot of oil changes to break even and I do not have to waste my time cleaning the filter. If your oil temperature is high enough to damage a good oil filter, you probably have bigger problems. I will stick to the WIX filters I have used on my cars and motorcycles for many years. | ||
| Crempel |
To answer Uly dude's question, no I am no a sales rep for Scott's, I sell pianos. In response to Nobuell's statement that 90 micron's is not correct, how do you know? Just from another website? Just curious. I do use Amsoil which has a very high flash point. I could definitely imagine a situation where the oil got hot enough to cause the paper filter to fail but the oil would be good enough to save the engine. Like I said though, it is not a financially justifiable purchase. Curious, though if you have time to clean an air filter or if you use the stocker. | ||
| Nobuell |
Crempel, As I stated, your reference to 90 microns is not correct. Typical paper filters are in excess of 93% in the 30 micron range. Not 90 microns. The main problem with stainless steel media is that it has 2 dimensional holes with very little surface area. Paper and synthetic media is 3 dimensional allowing oil flow around trapped particles and have much higher surface area. Here is a good article regarding various filters : http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Filters.html I would like to know the basis for your assertion that high oil temperature would fail the adhesive attaching the media to the end plates. Most of the oil filter media to metal adhesives I am familiar with are designed for temperatures in excess of 400 deg F. Once again the least of your problem if oil is reaching your filter at that temperature. Regarding Air Filters - Most independent tests show that oiled gauze type filters like the K&N do not filter as well as a good paper type. Yes the K&N will flow slightly more air but is the added dirt worth it in the long run? When trying to squeeze the most performance from a race engine a washable air filter is required. For long mileage street use, maybe not. I will tell you one thing, high mileage diesel engines do not use washable oil or air filters. Many use sub micronic oil filters in addition to the full flow filters for extreme oil filtration. Check out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com for good information on oil and filtration. | ||
| Oldwesterncowboy |
 when I was a kid, one thing I learned (and found surprising) not all of the oil goes though the filter anyway. so why buy an overpriced filter. (Message edited by oldwesterncowboy on May 12, 2010) | ||
| Arcticktm |
Has anyone ever heard of a temperature related oil filter failure in their lifetime? I understand the theory, but I don't live in a theoretical world (most days, anyway). I think a lot of folks have been convinced that paper (cellulose) is somehow the cheapskates way to filter things. It is quite economical, but it also works pretty damn well. It is very easy to find a lot of resources that will de-bunk the BS claim that paper filters are only good to 90 microns. maybe some no-name cheap a$$ filter, but none that I would use. The class 8 truck diesel is a good point. Those guys expect 1,000,000 miles between major overhauls. If a permanent filter would pay off for anyone, it would be the big fleets of trucks. Cummins used to have (may still have?) an additive system that would allow you to go 100,000+ miles w/o an oil change. You still had to change filters, I think, and they weren't using permanent ones. | ||
| Blake |
The high temperature concern is bogus. Even the cheapest paper filters are good for 30 micron. The better ones are good for 10 micron. I'd not use a permanent filter on my Buells. Guess what kind of filter the most expensive multi-million dollar industrial and racing machinery in the world use. Paper element. |
