| Author | Message | ||
     Bloose |
Hello all, I know this topic has been discussed many times. This is actually why I am bringing it up again. From most of what I have read the comments have been that it is normal for these motors to be noisy and that it doesn't affect performance. I like many of you have a noisy 1125R motor. For the most part I have believed it was just normal for this engine like most people. This weekend though I thought more about it. Any time you have mechanical noise of this nature in a motor there must be associated wear to go along with it. This is why valves must be adjusted. Of course wear is a fact of physics or motors would last forever. What I am worried about is excessive wear that mechanical noise of this volume may indicate. The noise wore on me long enough that curiosity got the best of me. I took a stethoscope to the motor and tried to isolate the noise to one particular area. I found it to be most pronounced on the left side cover up near the top. I stood there for a while contemplating what I should do. I though to myself that removing the cover would likely be a waste of time and possibly cause a real problem not just one in my head. As I said curiosity got the best of me. I pulled the left side cover from the motor which was relatively simple and took about 10 minutes. What I found inside made its removal worthwhile. On the left side at the top of that cover is where the counter balance gear spins. What I found was that the counter balance gear’s teeth are trashed, very trashed in fact. Their failure has no effect on the power of the motor. The counter balance only affects vibration. With the teeth badly worn but not broken vibration will not be a problem until all of the teeth are worn completely off. So the only indication of their failing will be excessive noise. The motor is still under warranty, which is of course why I was even more reluctant to pull the cover. I knew though that with the reputation that these motors have for being noisy the dealer would likely tell me that there is nothing wrong. So I just had to see for myself before I took it in. Of course when I got there their preliminary comment was that it sounded pretty normal to them. I insisted it was not, and they said they'll check it out further and get back to me. I of course did not tell them I already knew what the problem was because I didn't want to go down that road. So, the question is, of the many people on here that believe their motors make excessive noise how many have had that cover off, either themselves or at the dealer? I wonder if this is a common problem that has yet to be identified because most everyone, dealers included, think this noise is normal. Because it doesn't affect performance and many if not most of them make lots of noise, no one has looked into it yet? For reference my 1125 is a 2008, was bought in 2009, and has just over 3K miles on it. I'll keep you posted on what the dealer has to say about it. B | ||
| A_s_r |
Interesting find Bloose. Did you take pictures of the counter balance gear and its location? | ||
| 1_mike |
""Their failure has no effect on the power of the motor."" Not a true statement. ""The counter balance only affects vibration."" This statement is true in TWO areas. In both engine vibration AND frictional vibration and goes hand in hand with first statement. Friction and vibration are a part of each other in this context. Friction destroys power output. The amount and location of this frictional loss will determine the amount of power loss. Yea...this most likely is what has cause case brakage in a few instances. Good catch. Mike (Message edited by 1_mike on April 29, 2010) | ||
| Ccryder |
Thanks for the investigation. Pictures are needed. | ||
| Freezerburn840 |
I'm curious pics please. Describe noise. Mine makes a noise at start up like rocks then goes away when oil circulates and some hissing noises. I figured normal. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Ouch. More things to worry about. I really hope your dealer takes the cover off and sees the problem. Chances of a dealer digging that deep because a customer complains of noise are about zero I'm guessing. If it is a common problem maybe a few reports of this will trigger some proactive service from the factory and they'll send out a bulletin. Do you think this is an area that would be seen during the valve inspection? | ||
| Freezerburn840 |
Good quest. Mountain. I was going to ask that next. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
yeah i'd love some pics of that and even a recording of the sound would be awesome | ||
| Bloose |
Yes, I'm kicking myself for not getting pictures. I will do my best to get some before this is over. BTW, this is the smallest of the counterbalances so its overall affect on performance would likely be limited. Also, there will be little to no effect until it either skips a tooth or quits spinning. B | ||
| Bueller4ever |
How does your bike compare to others on youtube? My bike is loud, but not a metallic kind of loud. It sounds like ever rotax I've heard online. You should have taken a video. | ||
| A_s_r |
Bummer you didn't get a pic Bloose. Here's a cutaway pic I took of the left side of an 1125 motor. Could you point out the counterbalance gear?  | ||
| Bloose |
I do have a video from the bike with the camera shooting out of the front shield. I'll post that up so you can get an idea of the type of noise. B | ||
| Vinix |
The balancer gear is the gear above the alternator in the cutaway picture. I fine the wear described something which must have been observed as metal in the oil. | ||
| Dman |
Interesting read. If anything I've considered this bike to be quiet. I've had lots of liter bikes over the past 20 yrs, like R1, ZX9/10/11, CBR1000 / 1100, etc etc. And my 1125R seems on par or a little quieter from both the exhaust & drivetrain perspective, but I'm only a few hundred miles in. | ||
| Vinix |
Something is rotten in this post, but I'm sure the dealership will note this if said bike is inspected by the dealer. The OP may have given a mechanic just enough evidence to remove HD/Buell from being responsible. As evident at the gasket and seal having been removed. Best wishes to the OP in getting HD to cover this. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Vinix, unless the OP was careless when removing the cover, there is a good chance he would have been able to remove and reinstall it without damaging the gasket. I'd recommend that if the Buell tech says he can't find something, go to the dealership with your stethescope and have him listen to exactly where you found the noise. If, at that point, they still claim it's normal, then take the bike home, remove the cover and take pictures. Then go back to the dealership again with your findings. | ||
| Bloose |
Vinix, I assure you there is nothing "rotten" about this post. The only reason I posted it is because when researching "1125R engine noise" I found a lot of people saying their motors were noisy and the majority of the replies stating that it was normal. The question I asked was if anyone else had removed the left side cover and found the same thing I did. From the replies I'm guessing that no one here has had that cover off. Without removing the cover and finding out there was a problem it would have been hard for me to go to the dealer with any conviction and insist there was a problem. As I said, when I dropped off the bike the tech stated that he did not hear anything abnormal. Because of my knowledge I was able to insist there was indeed a problem. I just got off the phone with the dealership and to their great credit I can report that they did indeed uncover the problem (pun intended). Without my having to argue or complain. So at the end of the day my pulling the cover really only served to prove to myself there was a problem that needed attention. I should also say that the service tech said that when they found the problem they contacted HD Tech to try and find out why this may have happened. They told him that there was likely a defect in the gear tolerances when manufactured. Chalk one up to the dealer for doing a good job. So far they have done a very good job for me and once I have the bike repaired and back I will divulge which dealer it is. B | ||
| Xbud |
When you get it back from the dealer can you ask them to verify if this a 2008 Model problem or if this affects all 1125 engines? | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Where's that video? Here's a video someone posted on another buell forum. How does yours compare to this. http://www.vimeo.com/11279315 | ||
| Steeleagle |
I'm interested in two aspects: Is this a problem that will be popping up on all 1125s (i.e.: Do I have to worry about it now that my warranty is about to run out?) and even more important and obvious, what caused it? Replacing bad parts with new parts that are the same parts will just result in more bad parts unless they're better parts! | ||
| Ratsmc |
vinix:
There is absolutely no way that H-D can't cover this. Removing the cover has no impact on the warranty. The Dealership failing to find the problem on their own would have just been a sing of a lack of competence or carelessness and upon having the problem pointed out to them, the warranty would still have to cover it as well as any secondary damage. I'm really not sure where you are coming from or what your point is. | ||
| D_adams |
Ratsmc +1 I do most of my own service work, I know there are many others that do as well. Zac4mac had a trashed cam that was covered under warranty, I see absolutely NO reason why this wouldn't be either. Short of physically damaging the motor when doing your own work, it's still going to be covered under warranty. | ||
| Vinix |
Rotten, ok a truly poor choice in words. The intended meaning was if the gear is as described it will most likely be caused by an alignment issue in the 1125 engine. This is not to different from the 06 Dyna inner primary bearing issue. Which around 10000 miles failed in nearly all 06 Dyna's. Been there done that, and truly am not looking to a repeat. | ||
| Bloose |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-V5oG0ub0o This is a video from this weekend at Road America. It is just me riding around the grounds. I didn't want to mount it during a track session because I didn't want my phone to get wet. I can definitely hear the noise in the video but I also know what I'm listening for. That's the problem with sound from a video, it's hard to distinguish between noise and distortion. HTH, B | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Thanks Bloose, yours has a distinctly sharper tone than mine or others I've heard, but that could be a difference in camera. It's more clackaty than mine based on that video. | ||
| Bloose |
My true concern is that this is a bigger problem and it will turn out that I am not the only one with it. I can tell you that I will be removing the cover at the end of each season and inspecting that gear. I'm not terribly concerned that this will be a repeat problem but I will want to verify that for myself. I'm guessing that either they had a batch of bad gears or even a large run of them. Either way more likely than not the part they put in there won't have the same problem as the ones that came out. At least that's what I am hoping for! B | ||
| Bloose |
Bueller4ever, I'm glad to hear that, maybe mine is an isolated case after all. I would be extremely happy if that is the case. B | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Wow. That is loud. What year is yours and how many miles are on it? Any track miles? | ||
| Usanigel |
Just heard the vid sound track and I think I know what you mean. It's like a second sound track played at the same time. keep us up to date. | ||
| Ccryder |
Robert: Your 1125 sounds waay different than mine with 33,000+ miles. Mine is an 08' with a Feb08 build date. |
