| Author | Message | ||
     Js_buell |
Quick question I have a 09 xb12scg with a drummer and k&n air filter, I didn't want to keep the stock ecm thinking it wouldn't adjust enough for the mods so I bought a EBR race ECM and the bike pops more then ever on decel, it run at 2000 rpm when cold and tonight I noticed that both my pipes were glowing red, enough that I could see the exhaust gas going threw the front one. What you guys think, should I put the stock ecm back on? Do you think the folks at EBR could have sent me the wrong ecm? Should I just wait and see if it get back to normal with time. I did the TPS reset and went for at least 16mi run at 3500 rpm. | ||
| Glitch |
Do you have the means to do a little data logging? That way you could see what's going on. | ||
| Js_buell |
No I don't I also forgot to mention that the bike lack alot in the power department from times to times and it's not constant like when the bike is cold or hot but at any time. For example it will totally refuse to wheely even in first and 5 mins later it will want to flip on it's back if I try and then again later will refuse. | ||
| Krueger08xb12s |
Js, About half the page down you'll see a thread titled "2009......ECM needed?" I put the EBR Race ECM on my 2008 12 about a month ago and my reply to Brian in this email was as follows. I wish you would've read it before buying the EBR Race ECM because it would've saved you $250. Please read below and see the original thread if you need more details: Brian, I was going to PM you today. To clarify, my headers are glowing very hot very quickly which points to a richer condition (hot headers from unburned fuel but ultimately a cooler engine). For a quick explanation of my findings so far, based on what i feel, hear, and see (no dyno involved), I’ve created a comparison for MY xb12s between the EBR Race ECM and the Stock ECM. Remember that every bike is slightly different and in order to take full advantage of the Race ECM, you need the P&A “Race Muffler” to which it was surely very finely tuned to. My performance mods only include a Standard Drummer Muffler, K&N Airfilter, and Breather reroute. All comparisons were done on the same day, same road, same air temp, and engine fully warmed up and “learned”: * Cold start up Stock ECM: Idle is consistent and headers turn red after about 4 minutes Race ECM: Idle jumps around from 2k down to 800RPM and occasionally dies (yes I did a TPS reset after each ECM swap). Headers glow bright red after approx 45-seconds. Stock ECM-1 / Race ECM-0 *Mid-range power. 1st gear cruising steady at 3k RPM on a flat road and immediately snapping to WOT (no quick decel for spring-loading wheelie): Stock ECM: Immediate wheelie and if held the bike would certainly flip Race ECM: Bike accelerates but will NOT wheelie Stock ECM-2 / Race ECM-0 *Mid-range hesitation: Throttle at 50%-75% thru 4-5k RPM Stock ECM: Slight lack in power but no jolting and comfortable Race ECM: Major hesitation and through this range followed by major jolt in power at 5k Stock ECM-3 / Race ECM-0 *Top End Acceleration: WOT from 5k to Rev Limit Stock ECM: Fast Race ECM: Faster. This is where the Race ECM gains great advantage in Racing but from my findings, not necessarily the best for everyday fun. Stock ECM-3 / Race ECM-1 Again, these are my findings for MY Buell only. All Bikes are different due to different break-in’s, riders, etc… The EBR is a GREAT buy and EBR’s consumer service great. Please don’t be detoured from buying the EBR ECM. For $250 for a plug-and-play ECM it’s we’ll worth it and any may find you bike runs much better with it than mine. With regards to Fuel Economy, the Race should get worse MPG because the goal for top performance is ~10% above stoichiometric which will burn more fuel but at the cost of MPG (opti could better explain). Who cares though your Buell's for fun not for MPG. Factor in the cost for maintained, tires, 93 octane, and you'll find a Prius is best for MP$ !! | ||
| Krueger08xb12s |
To add, my bike runs faster and better with the Stock ECM so, without too much thought, i'm running this and the Race ECM sits on the shelf. As far as decel popping, i modified my Stock ECM by reducing the "decel adjustment" from the stock 95% down to 90% and i leaned out my fuel by about 10% on top of that from 4k down to 2k RPM. My bike pops maybe once or twice on engine braking from 5K down to a dead stop and usually only at that 2.5k RPM mark. Get ECM Read and make these mods at your own risk. Many guys race their 12's with the drummer exhaust, K&N airfilter, and STOCK ECM. That's what Kevin designed the exhaust for afterall. good luck, kyle | ||
| 1324 |
What is EBR's response to these issues? Not knowing how these race ECM's are different than the original DDFI2 race ECM's that used to be sold via Buell dealers, I'm surprised. Those ECM's worked pretty well. I'm wondering if these are anomalies or it's a DDFI3 thing... | ||
| Grianp |
just so you guys know, right now EBR is working on some new maps that are using the different aftermarket mufflers as they wait for more units to arrive from their supplier. These maps are to be implemented into the next set of EBR race ECMs to ship. You may want to contact EBR to see if you can have the most up to date maps placed on your unit. Hopefully that solves your issues. | ||
| Krueger08xb12s |
I just talked to EBR and, to confirm with Grianp's post above, I'm shipping my EBR Race ECM back for them to run tests on and evaluate. I'd suggest to others that they allow EBR some time to make the fine-tuning and adjustments to these ECMs before jumping into a purchase. I'll post my conclusion with my ECM and EBR. Ride safe, Kyle | ||
| Js_buell |
Kyle, How did you manage to contact EBR? I sent an email to their tech support 2 weeks ago now and never got an answer. Should I try the sale department? BTW thank for your findings it somewhat look like what my bike is doing except that the performance is different in the fact that sometimes the bike will be super powerful and other times in the same ride there will be no power or not as much. I even had to downshift to follow a friend of mine on an 04 xb12s, yes she is 60lbs lighter then I am but still I should of been able to keep up. | ||
| Blake |
First action should be to contact the vendor, EBR. Absent that, posting a pubic thread entitled, "EBR race ECM= bike running bad" is unfortunate and indicative at best of a total lack of consideration, or at worst a desire to harm EBR rather than find a solution to an issue. If solution to your issue is desired, then first best course is always to contact the vendor.  The most inconsiderate and classless course would be to post publicly implying that all EBR race ECMs cause the bike to run poorly. God forbid some of you folks ever have your own business and have to endure the likes of yourselves as customers. (Message edited by blake on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Blake |
"Kyle, How did you manage to contact EBR?" I can help. Please forward a copy to me of the email that you sent to EBR, Blake at badweatherbikers dot com. The same goes for anyone. Also provide the sales information and serial number of the ECM in question. | ||
| Blake |
As to the solution, I'd try the TPS reset again. Maybe you should describe for us in painstaking detail exactly what you did to accomplish the TPS reset. We can then ensure that you are doing it correctly. | ||
| Grianp |
Blake, I was told by sales at EBR that a TPS reset would not be necessary when installing the race ECM. He stated that the unit has it already built in. | ||
| Glitch |
Not sure why they'd say that. TPS Throttle Position Sensor Without a reset, how's it going to know where zero is on your bike? If you've not reset the TPS, I'd bet money that's the problem. | ||
| Js_buell |
First action should be to contact the vendor, EBR. Absent that, posting a pubic thread entitled, "EBR race ECM= bike running bad" is unfortunate and indicative at best of a total lack of consideration, or at worst a desire to harm EBR rather than find a solution to an issue. If solution to your issue is desired, then first best course is always to contact the vendor. : | The most inconsiderate and classless course would be to post publicly implying that all EBR race ECMs cause the bike to run poorly. God forbid some of you folks ever have your own business and have to endure the likes of yourselves as customers. First off sorry for the wrong choice of words but english ISN'T my FIRST language. I did contact EBR tech support like I said 2 weeks ago and didn't get an answer but today I sent another email to the sales people and I did received an answer. I never bitched about the EBR people and just wanted to know if anyone had the same problems and also asked for your inputs. If you found anything inappropriate toward EBR well it's YOUR problem. | ||
| Blake |
It may be that for the '08 and later the Race ECM does an automatic reset. I'd not heard that before, but I can see how it would be possible, since no throttle/idle adjustment is needed for the '08 and later bikes as they include the ECM controlled idle air mixture circuit. | ||
| Js_buell |
Maybe you should describe for us in painstaking detail exactly what you did to accomplish the TPS reset. We can then ensure that you are doing it correctly. Well I followed the procedure like the Buell tech told me too. Put the key to ON then the kill switch to ON rotate the throttle to full open and then back to off 3 times making sure that you keep it for a good second at each position. Is it ok for you now? | ||
| Js_buell |
Here is the answer I got today Jean- Sebastien, My sincere apologies for the improper running ECM. Please return the ECM to me at your earliest convenience. I will investigate the calibration in the ECM, and verify it is correct for the XB12 and correct for the Drummer muffler. For the inconvenience please send it back via UPS using our UPS account number ******, so you do not pay for the shipment. I will send back to you a verified ECM that has run our XB12X with a Drummer muffler installed! Best Regards, Michael Richter I am very happy with there answer and will send it back asap. Again for Glitch I never intended to say anything wrong toward EBR and next time instead of loosing it ask me first because like I said I may choose the wrong words sometimes to explain myself since English is not my first language (Message edited by blake on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Blake |
Thanks for the clarification. Your English seems excellent. I had no idea it wasn't your first language. I removed the UPS account number from your post above. Please try to be more aware of what you are posting to a public forum. Best of luck. Your TPS reset procedure is faulty. Here is the correct procedure: 2008 and later Buell TPS Reset Procedure: Specifically, turn the kill switch to "on" before turning the ignition to "run". Then when finished, cycle the ignition off then back on again. (Message edited by blake on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Js_buell |
Oups sorry for that little mistake and thank you for correcting it right away Blake. Also thank you for correcting the procedure I didn't know it made a difference to turn the kill switch to on first and then the key. (Message edited by js_buell on April 21, 2010) | ||
| Boney95 |
So EBR is making a race ecm calibrated for a Drummer? Sounds like they are. | ||
| Grianp |
According to Michael in sales at EBR, right now they are testing an XB12X with a Drummer as we speak. It is still going to be a few days until they have completed all their tests to update the units with a new map. Also, to clarify, it is the 08+ XB bikes that do not require a TPS reset once installing the EBR race ECM. | ||
| Boney95 |
Email sent to EBR sales, regarding the Drummer/K&N race ecm, and if one could just send in or walk in to get a reflash on their preprogrammed (08-09) race ecm. Will post when I get an answer. | ||
| Slaughter |
Question: Isn't there a throttle stop on the 08 and newer bikes??? Wouldn't you have to back the throttle stop completely out before doing a TPS re-set? (otherwise the "zero" is going to be off by a few degrees) | ||
| Greg_e |
The 08 has a throttle butterfly that closes completely, idle is controlled by an Idle air controller (IAC) or whatever they want to call the device. Same thing that most modern cars use to control the idle speed. | ||
| Krueger08xb12s |
All, I'm glad we're all seeming to get along now. I NEVER meant any harm to EBR, EVER. In fact, despite my initial issues with the unit, I explained that each bike is slightly different and that the race ecm was still a great purchase for many riders out there. Michael was always my point of contact at EBR and a great one at that. However, in order to protect his name and career, I never mentioned his name in any of my posts about the company. Blake if you agree, it may be wise to delete his first and last name from this thread as well. Heaven knows we'd all hate to have our daily job documented and posted publicly! Buell was a GREAT company and EBR is proving to be nothing less. Ride safe, Thanks | ||
| Blake |
JS, Step #4 is also important, at least until we can verify what Grianp is saying, that the TPS reset is now fully automated with the race ECMs. | ||
| Boney95 |
I just sent an email off to see if I can bring my bike to EBR and have them tune it on their dyno. Hope they supply this service! Nothing like getting your bike tuned by the mother ship its self. | ||
| Js_buell |
Blake, Yeah I forgot to mention it in my post but I know this step is important. | ||
| Boney95 |
Got a response from Erik Buell Racing regarding a race ecm for a Drummer. Here's the response, and I love it! "Adam, If you are close I can reflash it on the bike in a few minutes. Please wait until next week, as we haven't final released the cal yet for '08-'09 XB12's with a drummer. Thanks, Michael Richter" |
