| Author | Message | ||
     Sekalilgai |
...or yet another theory....if you 'have it', it might be worth checking your static timing. Mine was retard about the width of the machined notch; or the equivalent of a 1/2 tick on the cam-sensor housing. After a 43 mile test (with lots of time at the magic 3500rpm uphill combo) the AFV came back at 99.9. Fan would normally run all the way to shutdown but actually shut off before reaching home. long-winded rant ahead..... I was pretty sure my run, skip was due to a genuine case of overheating. It would kick in at 3500 and altering the soft-cut RPM through ECMSPY confirmed this. Anyway, the only fault ever indicated was the Oxygen sensor which I dutifully replaced. Other symptoms included a drop in fuel economy (approx 10%), AFV that persisted around 108. It is hard to note a gradual/slight decrease in zip but the 5degrees or so of timing is noticeable. Talking to Vern, we both noted that neither of our bikes ever pinged....something else to consider. good luck! Ken (Message edited by sekalilgai on April 11, 2010) | ||
| Etennuly |
Yes. This is the next investigative test for my Uly when run-skip rears it's ugly head again. Installing the comfort kit got the engine to stay cool enough that the indicator light will come on occasionally, but it no longer goes into run-skip. I feel that these engines are very close on tune tolerances, ie, move this a bit it changes that a bit. There is a lot of power had out of an engine form that five years before the XB, could barely get 100 hp with after market parts and be any kind of reliable for long distance, long life every day usage. I have not heard any of the folks with pinging issues having the run/skip issue. My bike has never pinged. My '06 only does the run/skip at constant speeds, say 75 mph+, when held at steady throttle for at least a mile, then introduce an up hill of the typical Interstate highway. I did run through the symptom one evening last year, by pegging the throttle. Over 90 mph the light went out and all was well. That probably carried the ECM into a different fueling map while advancing the timing. I believe it potentially has a lean fuel mix at that particular speed possibly enhanced by a slightly retarded initial ignition timing. Thanks Ken. I will be trying that soon. | ||
| Snojet |
Ok, here is my two cents on the subject... I will also post on my original thread some time ago. Anyway, I have dealt with a Stumble/hesitation. But, I think I could maybe call it a run/skip problem too. That is why I'm posting here on this thread. I have played with the timing during my problem among many other items. Basically I think I've been chasing my tail. Here are the links to my problems, if you care to read. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/532944.html?1264647383 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/541247.html?1267417584 What I would recommend on anyones "run skip" or "stumble/hesitation" symptoms is to use ECMSPY and disable (turn off) the BAS and give that a try. (Ride it like you just stole it) hahaha I don't know if this is really related, but I also disable (turned off) the Active Muffler Control/Actuator (I'm at work, (can't look at my manual) I think that is the proper name) in ECMSpy. The reason I did that was because of code 21 was always present. I would test it and it worked fine. To note, I've done the test and twisted the throttle to WOT and turn on the key on and watch it operate. And, I've also took the air box cover off and rode it "like I stole it" and seen it operate. For code 21, I have followed the troubleshooting tree and found that my ECM needs to be replaced. I have one on order along with a Muffler control/actuator. The bike runs just like it should with those two components disabled. Go figure... Glad to have my bike run like a champ now! | ||
| Florida_lime |
I was planning my annual Easter weekend trip from Florida to NC. Lost the wheel bearings for the first time on that ride 2 years ago. Trip from hell, but it all worked out pretty well considering. I had just gotten my Uly back after it waited 4 months for a back-ordered ETS. I changed the rear tire, and found the rear bearings to be too rough for my liking, especially considering 2 years ago.  I made an appointment at Gainesville Buell (forum sponsor 3 1/2 hours north) since they had the bearings in stock, and they had replaced them the last time under warranty. Of course the day before I am to leave, I had the treaded SSBS (Skip Spark BS) strike again, 72 degrees out, after 6 miles on the highway at 80 mph. I checked everything again, added more heat-shielding on the 02 sensor and ETS wiring, and pulled out my Odie blankets, hoping more airflow to the ECU would help. No difference. I also set up a time to meet with Gamdh in north Georgia to swap ECUs, as I have felt this was the issue all along. After I left Gainesville around 11 am, I tried to take it easy on the throttle, but given it was the warmest day around (mid eighties), I hit the dreaded SSBS in Valdosta, so I backed it down to 70-75 mph, and continued on. Hit the SSBS a couple times, but the engine also started missing - light at first, but getting worse. The engine started cutting in and out completely, finally giving up just short of Macon, Ga. It wouldn't restart until I pushed it off the closest exit, but did start again later. I called the Macon Buell dealer, and they came out right away, and trailered it to their shop. Quick runs by the service department showed it running great (what else is new --no one EVER is able to duplicate the issue other than me), but I couldn't trust it and got a rental car to finish the weekend trip. I suggested that the shop check the timing, and they reported later that it was right on, but found that my AF ratio was at 123%. They put on 40+ miles but have had no issues with it, so I'm having a friend pick it up next week to bring it back to Florida (he's passing right through anyways). I'll check to see how long it takes me to get it to act up again. Talk about frustrating -- I've been dealing with this for close to a year, and no one can ever get it to duplicate my problems. Of course, it's no longer under warranty, so it keeps coming out of my pocket.  | ||
| Florida_lime |
Snojet -- I've always had BAS cutout issues, and even replaced it before trying to find a related cause. Your post makes sense, as the only code that Macon found was for the BAS. Anyone have an ECMSpy they no longer need ? | ||
| Etennuly |
I have replaced my ECM, BAS, ETS, coils, plugs, wires, type of oil, intake seals, O2 sensor, installed the comfort kit, fixed many wiring shorts, reset TPS, cleaned intake and throttle plates. The bike still runs great! It is near 80F today I am going to try to get out for a blast down the Interstate when I am done working. I want to stop the 'flashy light/run/skip before any more road trips, I have many planned this year. Daytona was cold enough not to be much of a problem. I did get the red light on the Interstate long cruise runs, but it did not flash or go into run/skip. Still no codes. Next weekend I intend to go after the timing and fuel maps. | ||
| Snojet |
Hey Florida, I bet you can find a download somewhere on the net. I believe you can get a cable from ebay. Maybe you can find some Badwebber that can hook up to your bike and disable the BAS. And the Exhaust Actuator to if you like. If you do the actuator, pull the cable and secure it to the actuator mount and enjoy the sound. I really haven't notice any change in power or fuel economy. I also had my AFV go crazy (worst one was at 143%)during my problems. I simply reset it with ECMSPY and continued... If you (or anyone else) ever comes up to Indy, I'll help you out with ECMSPY or whatever. Good luck (Message edited by snojet on April 11, 2010) | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Snojet Glad to hear you got your bike fixed...sorry I hadn't read your earlier posts. I think Vern called it right, in my case (with the flashing CEL) the bike was indeed overheating. Now to wait for a really hot day....  actually I eff'd up and changed a few other things this afternoon that renders the experiment useless! (Message edited by sekalilgai on April 11, 2010) | ||
| Florida_lime |
Dealer in Macon was able to duplicate the SSBS !  They reset the AFV to 100 (from 123) and it ran poorly, then slowly reset itself again. They took it out on I-475, and was skip sparking within 2 exits. They have about 10 hours into it, but are not charging me. Then again, they don't want to invest any more time on it. They do feel it is fuel related, possibly fuel pump or injectors causing a lean running condition that it resets in the AFV to run right. Should have it back tomorrow. Anyone want a project bike  | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Jeeze... I think I would have lost patience with it by now. Bendix pumper carb and points ignition! But seriously, I'm sure that once the actual issue is discovered, it will be obvious and simple in hindsight. Hindsight is 20-20, right? | ||
| Sekalilgai |
They do feel it is fuel related, possibly fuel pump or injectors causing a lean running condition that it resets in the AFV to run right. Sounds like they're getting close....think it might be intake gaskets? | ||
| Florida_lime |
If you mean intake seals -- that was just done before the last trip attempt. | ||
| Etennuly |
Yeah, new seals had mine laughing at me too! "thank you sir, may I have another!"  OOOPS! another..... | ||
| Xbimmer |
I've given up, the new ETS helped considerably but when the weather gets warmer around here it'll still try it on a freeway run 75+, it still pings, fan runs a lot now, and the CEL comes on for a while after 20 miles or so. Guess I'll just start riding it like a Harley... | ||
| Sekalilgai |
oops I meant seals... mine I'm pretty sure is attributed to timing. Still though, Vern's point about the entire system being rather fine tuned is valid. Fuel pressure? | ||
| Etennuly |
Could the fuel be boiling at a point, making it lean out? | ||
| Florida_lime |
I can be having the issue with a near empty "tank", fill up with noticeably cool gas, and be having the problem again almost immediately. It is possible to shut the bike off, and hear the gas sound like it is boiling in the frame, though. Never noticed that until recently, but you need the helmet off right away, and need to listen for it. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have read it is possible for it to boil in the fuel rail also. Not to easy to detect I would think. | ||
| Garrcano |
Maybe it's a heat issue in the ignition timing sensor. It's an electronic device which can get damaged one hot day and give the same error every time it gets hot again over a specific point. Mine got the problem on my third summer with many "hot" kilometers, the fuel boiling would appear earlier in my opinion. | ||
| Xbimmer |
That's an interesting idea Garrcano, and the first time I can recall hearing that. My bike's been through plenty of hot (100+ degrees) riding in four years, it's always pinged but the SS problem only surfaced a year or so ago. ETS died afterward but it's never been the same since. | ||
| Garrcano |
The idea came after reading a warning from an german guy, to not put thick Crome-Skull-Timing-Covers. He own an XB9 with 1250cc and carburetors instead of DFII. For this reason he installed a different ignition timing which has a temperature feedback of the sensor. His datalogging reached the 85-90ºC level at normal road driving in autumn on german roads. | ||
| Etennuly |
Yes Garrcano, thank you for that idea. That had never come up on my chart of things that could cause the problem. A lot of us have been chasing the same tail for quite some time. I will be looking in to mine when the opportunity strikes. Ah.....ya gotta love the BadWeB!  | ||
| Florida_lime |
From the service manual -- that would be the cam position sensor ? Maybe time to try replacing that, and the TPS. Those are about the only sensors of the 6 that the service manual says the ECU uses to monitor engine functions that I haven't replaced. Anyone have a price and P/N for each one ? (2007 Uly) Also - Etennuly - have you ever checked your fuel pressure ? There is a fuel screen, and fuel filter on the pump. Maybe........ (Message edited by Florida_lime on April 20, 2010) | ||
| Etennuly |
Scott, I guess we haven't covered all of the bases yet. I can do the TPS and Cam Sensor and fuel filter and screen. I had the fuel pump out over a year ago for the wire chaffing. I did not replace the screen and filter because the dealer did not stock them and I needed the bike right then. And the list grows.....but I will do them one at a time until I find the culprit!  |
