| Author | Message | ||
     Squish |
Recently bought a ‘09 1125R. Love the bike. I am new to Buell but I have been riding and working on other street motorcycles for many years. There is a noise coming from the front-end of the bike. It is not a major problem, but having ridden street motorcycles for more than a couple of decades, the noise is also not normal. The noise is a kind of clunk. I am not sure where exactly the noise is coming from; it is either the headstock bearings or one of the front forks. The sound is more “external” as in from the headstock bearings versus being an “internal” sound like from the inside of the fork tubes. The noise is not from the front caliper or brake pads because just rocking the bike on-and-off the kickstand produces a slight clunk. Also, putting the front wheel against a curb and, without touching the brake lever, pushing up and down on the handlebars produces the same sound. Also, when riding the bike, during to medium to hard braking (and when braking over bumps), the clunk occurs and sends a small vibration/ripple through the bike. I did search this message board and found the post that discussed how to correctly torque the headstock bearings – Spectrum posted the factory service manual procedure on how to torque the headstock bearings (reference: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/383320.html). Completing this procedure (lifted the front-end with a scissors-jack, etc.) did not make any difference in fixing the clunk sound. I did skip the step with the spring scale to measure the running torque to turn the wheel while it is elevated off the ground. The font forks did turn freely; if anything, the front end rotation seemed to lack resistance to turning as compared to a more conventional headstock bearing tension adjustment nut. The forks did not feel loose and the headstock bearings never felt bad during this procedure. With what I have described, what do you think is wrong with my 1125R? One more piece of information concerns when I first bought this bike a few months ago. I flew down from northern California to the Los Angeles area, bought the bike and rode it back up to northern California. The bike was a Buell “executive” model and had about 3K miles on it (I think the term “demo” model might apply, but whatever). On the ride back, the bike had issues. On the freeway (at about 10 pm), I noticed when braking hard there was a cluck in the front end. Spent the night in a small town off highway 101. When leaving the hotel the next morning, the road surface was uneven and it made the front-end felt like it was falling apart. I only went half a block from the hotel, so I drove back to the hotel to check the bike out (I meant to check it out that morning anyway from the issues the night before on the freeway, but I forgot). I examined the front-end and found that all three pinch bolts in the upper triple clamp were loose, as well as the steering stem cap nut. Found an automotive service shop in town and borrowed the mechanic’s tools to tighten the upper triple clamp fasteners. While doing this, I checked the pinch bolts for the front axle - they were missing! The front axle spindle was still tight, but the pinch bolts were missing in the left fork leg! I bought two allen-head bolts from the local Ace Hardware for the front axle/left fork tube, installed them, and then checked the majority of the other fasteners on the bike. I tipped the mechanic 20 bucks for the use of his tools, and was on my way back on the freeway – bike felt great. The night before, when I left the dealer that I had purchased the bike from, by the time the dealer had the bike ready to roll (and the paperwork was complete), the time was late and dark outside, and I had assumed that the bike was ready to ride. That was a bad assumption. The bike is still under warranty for a few more months. Thanks. | ||
| Torquaholic |
Has the bike been laid down at all? After going through the neck bearing retorque procedure correctly, I would venture to guess that the neck bearings are loose in the frame. Possibly got knocked around in a crash? (If that's the case, which would be hard to do, then the bearing seat in the frame is no longer good and the frame would be shot... don't think warranty would cover it if its from a crash. The insurance of the rider at the time of the crash would have to foot the bill for all repairs with the totalled bike) I'm not trying to scare you. Just trying to think of any possibility here. In case it helps, here's a DIY on the GPR install combined with the re-toque procedure I wrote up. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/489713.html I'd probably try doing it again, getting a cheap spring scale from harbor freight or academy sports just to see if there's any resistance at all. The other options could be related to fork oil and internal bushings, but since you said that isn't the case... not much else I can think of. Are the forks even height above the upper triple clamp? Uneven forks, since you mentioned the missing bolts... Have you tried taking the front wheel off and then reinstalling it to factory specs? I've heard others say doing that has helped them with clunky noises. Good luck. Let us know if there's anything else. (Message edited by Torquaholic on April 14, 2010) | ||
| Jules |
I know that the internal fork bushes on some 1125 are a bit "noisy" (they clunk) but you've already said that you don't think that's likely. I'd be on the phone to the dealer asking them how they thought it was safe for you to ride without the front end being fully secure. I'd also ask them to disclose whether the bike has been involved in an accident prior to purchase and if so what parts were affected. I know if you take the forks off there is a particular process you need to follow for re-assembly to make sure they fit correctly in the triples, it may be worth slackening all of the clamp bolts off again and tightening them in the correct order (I'm afraid I don't know what that is) as it's possible one of them may not be sitting quite correctly... | ||
| Squish |
Toquaholic and Jules: thank you for your comments. I appreciate it. On whether the clunk noise is from the headstock bearings or the front forks, at this point, I do not know. I cannot make a conclusive statement as to what is the source of the noise unless I remove the front forks and individually compress them. So I am keeping the option open that the noise could be from the fork bushings and that the noise could be considered normal. With that said, however, I doubt the noise is normal and suspect the noise/vibe pulse is a not a nominal condition for a motorcycle with the high level of caliber found in the 1125R. My bike is under warranty for a few more months and I am trying to gain all the information I can about the bike before I go back to the dealer to address my concern. | ||
| Squish |
“Are the forks even height above the upper triple clamp?” - Forks are even height in the triple clamps. “Has the bike been laid down at all? After going through the neck bearing retorque procedure correctly, I would venture to guess that the neck bearings are loose in the frame. Possibly got knocked around in a crash? (If that's the case, which would be hard to do, then the bearing seat in the frame is no longer good and the frame would be shot... don't think warranty would cover it if its from a crash. The insurance of the rider at the time of the crash would have to foot the bill for all repairs with the totalled bike)” Torquaholic – I don’t know if the bike was in a crash or not, but I doubt it. I am the first owner of the bike from the Buell (HD) factory. This was a Buell dealer first-time sell of an “excutive” model. As to whether or not the bike was crashed while it was an “executive model” ridden by a Buell employee, I don’t know, but I doubt it. Also, if it was a demo model used by Buell/HD, I also don’t know if the bike was crashed by a demo rider, but I doubt it. I doubt it was previously crashed as there is no apparent damage to the bike showing signs of it being crashed (outside of the noise). But, it is a possibility the frame seat for the bearings could be bad. When I bought, the dealer had just finished assembling the bike, or thought they had. The bike was shipped from (I think) Wisconsin to the Los Angeles area dealer. For packaging the bike for shipment, the bike was partially disassembled. I am not sure, but the front-end was either partially or fully disassembled for shipping the bike. The front wheel was probably removed for shipment. The problem is that when I left the dealer, about driving about 10 miles on surface streets and expressways, the bike felt good so I then got on the 405 freeway during the later part of rush hour traffic. The 405 can be a treacherous freeway during rush-hour traffic. I was on and off the front brake, sometimes fairly heavily, in order avoid having a front-end collision in the stop-n-go traffic common on the 405. I suspected the steering stem cap nut was never torques correctly at the dealer that I bought the bike from. It is possible the headstock bearings un-seated in the frame. The procedure for torquing the headstock bearings posted by Spectrum (and basically the same procedure for the GPR install DIY) might not have the level of toque needed to reset the headstock bearings. (I saw the DIY procedure for the GPR install before I did the torque procedure posted by Spectrum. I think your procedure parallels Spectrums procedure for intent.) In the 2009 1125R Factory Service Manual, there is a procedure given for seating the headstock bearings in the frame. The procedure calls-out Buell specific tooling to accomplish to clamp-down on the headstock bearings for seating them into the frame. I am not positive, but I think the torque called out for this procedure is significantly higher than the toque to seat the headstock bearings. I don’t have the factory service manual (I need to get one). If the torque to seat the headstock bearings in the frame is higher than the 38 to 42 ft-lbs called out for the headstock bearings torque adjustment, this might explain the noise/clunk as bearings simply not seated. Does anyone have the torque called-out in the service manual to seat the bearings in the headstock (this is with the Buell specific tooling and with the entire front-end removed (triple clamps removed))? Torquaholic – what do you think? Thanks again for any input. | ||
| Squish |
Jules – thanks for the info. - I guess on determining if it’s the forks, I could pull the forks and compress them individually…I would know right away if the sound is coming from the fork(s). Only minor movement of the front-end makes the noise/clunk. I will probably call the local dealer (who have a fair amount of experience with Buells) and/or take it in for their assessment before I tear it apart. If they say something like, “Oh, that’s a normal thing”, then I am taking it apart myself; if I find anything wrong at that point, I will go back to the dealer with the information in hand to get the issue corrected. - I plan to get the factory manual. Still looking for the torque to seat the bearings in the frame with the front-end pulled (this torque might be greater than the torque called out to re-torque the headstock bearings at the steering stem capnut with the front-end on). | ||
| Torquaholic |
You are correct about the factory tool needed. However, from the service manual: "Hold the forcing screw while tightening the nut to draw the bearing into the steering head. Continue tightening until the bearing is fully seated... (install fork assembly) tighten steering cap nut to 38-42ft lbs...." Send me your email via PM if you want more info on the head bearing install process covered in the manual. It looks like the head bearing torque procedure should do the trick, unless the bearings are bad, or the race they fit into is no longer exactly circle and now allows some play around the bearing seat. I'm stubborn, but I'd do the re-torque procedure again, checking every fastener on the triple tree to make sure threads are good and nothing is broken. After that, remove and reinstall the front tire. The fork tubes might have gotten out of alignment. +1 on what Jules said about calling the dealership. I don't think any bushings can pop out of place in the forks, and as long as you've got good fork action, i can't imagine the forks are missing oil. | ||
| Freezerburn840 |
I am going in this weekend for the front end clunk. My dealer seems to think its the forks or head bearing causing the clunk. I can hear it and feel it when slowing down with the clutch engaged. | ||
| Squish |
Update: I called the local dealer and spoke to the service guy who worked on the bike previously. He set up an appointment to examine the bike. I plan on leaving it at the dealer so that they can deal with it (bike is still under warranty). I told him I did the headstock bearing torque procedure (38 to 42 ht-lbs) and it didn't fix it. He asked if I measured the turning resistance of the front wheel (i.e., the 1 to 7 pounds force), I told him no and that, qualitatively, the front-end had minimal turning resistance. He said he needed to check out the bike himself. When I torqued the headstock bearings per the factory procedure, I examined all the fasteners. There were no issues with the fasteners, nothing binding and no bad threads. I suspect the headstock bearings are not seated properly in the frame or the bearing themselves are bad (worst case is frame bearing seats are bad, hope this is not the case). In the procedure to seat the headstock bearings into the frame with the specific tooling, the bearing seating torque is probably much higher than the 38 to 42 ft-lbs steering stem cap nut torque specified in the headstock bearing torque procedure. (Message edited by squish on April 20, 2010) |
