| Author | Message | ||
     Eulysses |
Becoming more aware (thanks to some of you) of my vulnerability as an new road warrior and to forsake riding in shorts for armor I must ask you some questions. As a retired snowmobiler I experimented with gear over the years and ended up with Klim gear as the best. Sledders know what I mean. Pay the money...enjoy the gear. Asphalt being less forgiving than snow, armor is apparently key. Well, after considering all this and wanting to avoid the expensive learning curves, would you assist me? I want a tough mesh jacket and pants w/o a liner as it needs to be snug...armor stays in place. I will wear Klim or some other material over, it weather demanding. But I want a base jacket/pants I can wear all the time. So it appears attractive etc. but is layer ONE. I think a liner makes either the mesh coat too loose to begin with or too tight with the liner. Besides...outer gear like a Klim coat are tough action jackets truly waterproof. And I own it! Same with pants. Anybody think like this and want to share your experiences? The second question is: What do you do when the bike goes down? I would exit a sled but does the frame skid protect your legs? Should one stay on or bail? Thank you all. | ||
| Yamafreak |
Get Off Now  | ||
| Reepicheep |
It will probably happen so fast it'll be done before you can think about it. Do whatever hurts the least in the moment. :/ The "Best" is aerostitch. Get one now, use it for the next decade, love life. High cost of entry, but great gear. I settled on "last years" first gear stuff. When the Kilamanjaro Air 3.0 came out, I bought the 2.0 stuff. I'm happy with it, but after 5 years, it is coming apart. Joe Rocket is a good way to get into the game. It may fall apart after 2 years or less, but it is cheap and easy to find and until it falls apart it is pretty functional. Even the generic $75 armored riding jackets aren't *that* bad. | ||
| Froggy |
Problem is, every wreck is different, it is hard to say. Usually I get tossed from the bike. If you try and hang on, there is a chance you can get pinned under and have it drag you along, then its fun trying to get out from under the bike. Gear/helmets - What works great in crash X won't be as great in crash Y. Buy something that is comfortable and has armor, including a back protector. Buy good riding boots, not cheapo k-mart boots or cowboy boots. Same with gloves and everything else. Jeans are worthless. | ||
| Froggy |
Crash protection on them is poor at best. They seriously lack padding, and back protectors are optional. If mine wasn't so damn comfortable and good year round, I would of gotten rid of it already. | ||
| Etennuly |
I rode sleds a lot back in the late 70's early 80's. Big differences in get off results. Worst on the ole' 640TNT was an 80mph 90 degree right turn on an ice covered road that I had not been on before. I was racing a guy on his home turf, I knew there was trouble coming when I passed him quite suddenly. I made about thirty degrees of the turn hitting a plowed snow bank and flipping an undetermined number of times into four feet of fluff. The biggest problems were digging the snow pack out of the carburetor snorkels and finding my boot and sock. Bare footed looking through a two hundred foot wreck area in four feet of snow for a boot is not comfortable, but there were literally no injuries. Let it go. Tuck and roll is the best advice I can give. You want to avoid sliding as much as you can. Pull your hands back from the bars at just the moment BEFORE they hit the pavement, pull your leg and foot out from the down side, don't let it be on top of you as it slides. If it hi-sides, tank slaps, or endo's the options belong to the bike. I got off my TT500 in a 70 mph slide-out one time on gravel. I was able to pull my bottom leg up and ride on top of it to a stop. That didn't happen very often. But pulling your hands back at the last moment before the big bang has saved a lot of pain that I have see others endure for months. Don't get fat when you get older. It will seriously limit your ability to tuck and roll.  Sled wreck think cushion with obstacles. Bike wreck think grinder surface with obstacles. I have ride specific pants, jackets, gloves. And I have zip over pants. Can't help with the padded mesh stuff. | ||
| Hangetsu |
+1 on the Aerostitch. It's the best, but it's fork'n ugly. I went with Olympia - AST jacket & Ranger pants. I also have the Bushwhacker mesh jacket and Airglide mesh pants. Well made, durable, comfortable, and it looks good (as good as textile bike gear can, anyway) The best for the $$ in my opinion. | ||
| Sirvait |
+1 on the Olympia gear. It's fairly waterproof and can be found in stock at most BMW shops. It's an entry gear that will last a while until you save up for a roadcrafter. | ||
| Ulynut |
If it were me, I would invest in dedicated motorcycle gear and leave the snowmobile stuff for the snowmobile. Who wants to wear two sets of gear at the same time? All of the better manufacturers make waterproof riding gear, and some of the stuff isn't that expensive either. There are plenty of good choices in gear that can be had for pretty cheap. Fieldsheer gear is really good protection, and most is waterproof. Check New Enough or Motorcycle Closeouts for good deals. | ||
| Itileman |
Check out the Gear Thread on advrider.com. I've outfitted myself with very good gear for both summer and winter at 50% less than the cost of new. +1 on the Olympia stuff. Liners are mandatory here for warmth year round as it's cool in the early mornings and later evenings. I found the J Rocket stuff not to my liking. Have a Dainiese mesh jacket for summer, a Frank Thomas for fall/spring and riding around town in the cooler months and the Olympia AST for cold weather and distance travel. Have been happy with Tourmaster Caliber pants (with liner) for most of the year and Fieldshear mesh for summer. Upgraded the armor in the Fieldshear to CE grade for $19.00. All this gear is CE rated armor. Jackets have spine/back pads. Pants include hip pads. Don't snowmobile, but my only get-off on the Uly was on snow and ice (stay out of the mountains in May). | ||
| Eulysses |
I am thinking a snug mesh set with good armor for warm rides and I will put a jacket over it for chill. The jacket might be my Klim set for rain. But the core...layer one...is the mesh set over a T-shirt. No liner. I want it tight enough so armor does not slide around my knees and elbows in a landing. Make sense? | ||
| Towpro |
Funny you should mention Klim. I just bought a pair of Klim Dakar Motorcycle pants (waiting for them to get delivered). They are made for dirt bike riding, but they have great ventilation for street. And I figure they are a step up over jeans on the street. I bought them because they will fit over my dirt bike boots I also use when I ride my Uly. I have a river road mesh jacket I wear in the summer that I can zip a waterproof liner in. I then wear a safety vest "can you see me now" over that jacket. For winter I have a Joe Rocket pants and coat I wear, but they get worn more for snow plowing with the ATV then Uly riding. (Message edited by towpro on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Ghostrider |
Well, my opinion is this: First, leather is really great stuff. It's sometimes a bit pricey, but I found a nice Fieldsheer two-piece for less than $300 and I wear it all the time. If you aren't into leather, be sure to get something good. I have only found one Joe Rocket two-piece suit that I liked. The rest was crap. Same with Frank Thomas. Fieldsheer is pretty good. First Gear, Cortech, & Tourmaster are all good, too. I agree that you shouldn't cheap out, but also don't break the bank. Good boots are really a big plus. I used to wear just any kind of work boots, but lately got some Alpine Stars water proof boots and really really like them. The fit is great, even for my wide feet, and they're designed for the potential get-off. The best thing you can get is gloves. And don't just get one pair. Carry two at all times. It has happened to me that you have a not too serious accident, slide along the pavement a bit on your high quality gloves, and are able to get up and ride home. However, pulling gravel out of your hands sucks and sometimes you total the glove. Keep a spare pair. They're light and small usually, so it's no big deal. I've lately gotten gloves with more armor, carbon fiber knuckes, kevlar material, etc. Good luck! | ||
| Billyo |
Froggy-Usually? How often is usually? I usually have gravy on my mashed potatoes but I don't want to get thrown from the bike that often! | ||
| Froggy |
If you saw my bikes, you would eat mashed potatoes less       Yes, they are all different bikes, yes, they all have been down more than once. Uly 12x, Blue Uly 3x, 1125CR 3x, Blast 6x, Suzuki GS500 1x. I only have owned one bike that hasn't hit the pavement. Yet. (1125R) | ||
| Windrider |
Great Scott Froggy. Rubber side down. Olympia is great for the money. My advice: don't crash. I cringe every time I hear "I had to lay her down" You never have to give up and lay her down... Never give up when things start to go wrong. Lose speed as much as you can, even if a crash is imminent. It is always better to keep the rubber on the road and keep trying to regain control. As soon as the bike is sliding on it's side you have lost all control and your ability to lessen the impact or change direction. Plan to avoid the crash, not how to react to it. My 2 cents. | ||
| Florida_lime |
Uly 12x, Blue Uly 3x, 1125CR 3x, Blast 6x, Suzuki GS500 1x. You crash your street bikes more often than I crashed on the track racing professionally ! Might be time for a good rider/track class.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Sometimes, it *IS* best to lay it down. In the motor patrol training course, they teach officers to not only be able to "ride a bike down" to avoid slamming into the side of a car or a bus that pulled in front of them (slide = friction, friction = reduced speed), but also to be able to accurately fire a weapon from behind the "shield" of the sliding motorcycle if required. Anyone still think motormen are poseurs? For the initial question, though - most MC armored gear has "armor pockets" that will keep the plating where it belongs. My fieldsheer pants have "adjustable" pockets - three velcro strips at the top and at the bottom of the pocket, allowing you to "move" the pocket to where your knee actually is inside the pant, so the armor is where you actually need it. I tend to shun leather, for textile. Leather is too temperature-sensitive; textiles are neutral and don't magnify the ambient temperature nearly as much. Abrasion resistance is right up there with leather on the textiles now, so that argument is pretty much eliminated. I wear the fieldsheer pants over either jeans or shorts (depending on temp), and they have a removable winter liner. Up top I wear either a Bolt jacket (Joe Rocket), or the Buell mesh jacket (also JR). Armored gloves (knuckles mainly, padded palms, and they WORK - I've wrecked in the pair I still wear and had no rash on either hand) and a fullface or modular helmet from Shoei or Arai (depending on weather - venting on the Arai is a *wind tunnel*, I can NOT wear that lid in the cold because it vents TOO well!). And I have to disagree with Vern (partially). He's right, you want to separate yourself from the motorcycle so you don't get tangled in it. But - avoid the tuck and roll. Slide. If you have good gear, the slide won't get to you at all and you have a better chance to control your direction and speed. Ask a racer. Slides are "safer" than the catch-n-tumble, where limbs are flailing around and possibly catching on things as they go by. Or, ask my orthopedic surgeon/'mechanic'. I shattered both legs and am filled with titanium now because my legs "tumbled" into a fence. Armor doesn't do squat if your limb smacks into something that doesn't move (like a fencepost made from a telephone pole)...but if it's just sliding along the surface it can do its job. Armor is *designed* for slide protection. If you want *impact* protection, buy a Buick. | ||
| Tocino |
avoid the tuck and roll. Slide. +1 Rolling is where you break things, because you're smacking your joints, etc. into the ground. This is why leathers / textile are described in terms of abrasion, you want it to hold up after sliding on asphalt. I'll disagree on the body armor bit - it *is* designed to absorb some of the impact, or at least spread it out over the area of the piece. The tucking is a good idea though, if you can do it, pull your hands and arms into yourself as you slide, so they don't hit things (or vice versa). I've never been able to control anything as it's always been "whoa, huh, off, uh, wha?" | ||
| Towpro |
I was taught Rubber on asphalt stops faster then steel foot pegs and handle bars on asphalt. I always did like the Police bikers. I got to see a nice display yesterday as they lead Bidens motorcade through Filthadelphia. They came up 17th street, which is a tight 2 lane road. The bikes were 5 across in a V formation that was so tight the guys on the side would have hit the saddlebags of the guys in the center if anybody moved. As they came up the street around 40-50mph the pedestrians that thought they were going to stand in the street had to jump back onto the curbs. (there was police on every corner yelling at the crowd to stay on the sidewalk). I also read there is more then a few accidents where riders get killed during presidential motorcades. I got stopped by a motorcycle policeman once. It was later at night and I was riding an XT250. I was on a back road in the local town that crossed a railroad track. The track stood up around 4" above the street. There was some guy on a harley following me, and being a young dirt biker, I guess I felt the need to show off. Just before I hit the first rail I loaded the suspension and launched off the first rail and jumped across the 2nd rail (at around 20mph). Then the guy following me turned on the red lights  As he was answering all my questions about his bike, he wrote me up for a tail light being out | ||
| Etennuly |
Rat, on second thought I feel you are right. However the conditions warrant the method of bail out. Sliding is probably better on pavement at speed while wearing proper gear. I was thinking about the guy in front of me who slid wearing jeans and a mesh jacket that the zipper blew out of upon impact. He then slid a fair distance grinding skin and meat off from exposed parts, Yecch. Back in the day I wore jeans on my dirt bikes always finding sliding to be an ugly thing to do. But in those days only dedicated race riders put out the expense for leathers and properly padded textile armor was not invented yet. Not being a truly experienced pavement eater, the wreck I had at Road America at the '07 Homecoming was my first. I have known nearly every manor and method of exiting on dirt though. My pavement get off did break some of my ribs and sprained both ankles while flipping and flopping about. I did have proper gear on, and might have been uninjured if I had been sliding. I did have the choice as I made my exit. I did not loose any skin though. | ||
| Oldwesterncowboy |
Instructors from MSF course said--- 90% of all motorcycle accidents, the rider had no formal training. (mostly from not knowing how to properly brake and/or swerve) | ||
| Oldwesterncowboy |
if only I had the $$$$  http://www.aerostich.com/aerostich-suits/transit-s uit/transit-two-piece-suit.html | ||
| Alchemy |
Learning Judo goes a bit toward learning how to land when you are flying through the air. Judo teaches to spread the impact over the side of the body with the arm out and the leg out just a little. Ideally you land equally on a larger surface area and survive the impact. This is a simplistic explanation but you get the idea. The most important thing however is to tuck the chin to the chest. This minimizes the snap of the neck and may prevent your neck from being broken. The very first college match I attended the very first contest resulted in a broken neck on the first through. Boy that gets your attention. I agree that rolling is not good for the limbs or neck and a slide is better. | ||
| Nadz |
Definitely better to slide than tumble. Skiing skillz and thick-ass leather saved me. Yea cowhide's hot and heavy, but less so than ballistic armor and the bike is doing all the work. Plus leather protects better than textile even if you "miss" your impact pads. | ||
| Ghostrider |
The thing about sliding v. tumbling is that if you tuck, you'll more likely tumble. If you spread yourself out flat, you'll slide. Watch how some of the racers do it when they wipe out. They spread eagle all over and slide on their backs and heels and elbows. Let the gear take the brunt of it. If you pull your arms in to your chest or sides, you'll roll and that's where the breakage starts. PS: Someone remind me if we ever go riding with Froggy that I'm not allowed to ride too close to him. I don't want to catch whatever he's carrying. Maybe we can get him a bike made out of rubbermade. | ||
| Froggy |
Do they teach how to ride street bikes with street tires in snow storms? That could help a bit
I was on my Blast a few weeks ago, and watched a guy in front of me on a Blast bite it from gravel going around a turn, his right hand got pinned under the handle bar and slid with the bike down the road, his hand was in bad shape I think he was going to lose his finger as it was hanging on by a thread. I haven't heard about him since that day. | ||
| Eulysses |
Who you all think has the snuggest and best quality mesh kevlar or poly jackets and pants? I am thinking only shorts and T shirt under. Will cover the mesh with looser jacket/pants when cold. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
Froggy, how the hell do you drop a blast 6 times? Is that your drinking bike? | ||
| Eulysses |
What I like is that Froggy rides...a lot. And Froggy writes...and Froggy does mods. Long live Froggy. |
