| Author | Message | ||
     Jdugger |
Anyone's FMF can cracked? The carbon fiber on mine is cracked in the center, along the bottom. There's no obvious scratch marks or other indicators to signal something having hit it or damage other than it just failed. I've had it about 6 months -- and kinda wondered when I installed it if it would hold up to track duty. What are some other experiences with this exhaust. Other than it's outrageously loud, of course. | ||
| Reducati |
mine, with ebr ecm idle set at 1250, is neither loud nor cracked. it sound perfect actually...less loud than my ducati w/ carbon fiber slipons actually. | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
I just de-stickered mine Monday... no signs of cracks... | ||
| Tq_freak |
Call FMF and see what they will do. Being its a "for off road use only" pipe and you were doing just that, track days, hopefully they will stand behind it and replace it. Hopefully you just got a random bad one. I say hopefully since mine is on order and will be here on Monday. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Call FMF and see what they will do That's the plan for today. | ||
| Slaughter |
FMF has a good rep and they should do 2 things: 1) take your info to their manufacturer so that they can improve their quality and 2, REPLACE yours. Sounds a LOT like there was a crack along a seam where a ply of fabric ended at an overlap. ASS-U-ME that they care, they should re-design and/or run tighter QC on their carbon cans. | ||
| Family_buells |
Just a suggestion, since you are using it on the track: You may want to see if they'll replace it with a Ti or aluminum can. Metal mufflers can normally suvive crashes better than CF can. | ||
| Jdugger |
Update: I called FMF and got customer service. He said I needed to send the can in and wait 3 weeks for a warranty review. I asked if I could put down a deposit, buy a replacement can only, etc., just to keep the bike up while I waited and he offered no solution. Customer service rep was kind of an overly laid back stoner-type that wouldn't be called a go getter for sure. I asked to speak with a manager, since I thought my request was pretty reasonable (hey, let me buy a replacement, and if it turns out mine is broken not for my fault, you refund me). The sales manager was a LOT more accommodating, and suggested I take pics and send them in. He did comment that mostly likely what happened was I didn't repack the exhaust promptly enough, and therefore the integrity of the can failed. Apparently, the Apex needs to be repacked about every 20 hours of operation or so. I'm somewhat past 20 hours, though the indicator that's supposed to be yellow/white until repack time was black by session 1 on my bike... So, I took pics, sent them in, and I'm waiting on a response. | ||
| Freight_dog |
Repacked every 20 hours? That's been mentioned here before from a source at FMF and then debunked by another FMF source who said the first didn't know what he was talking about. 20 hours is ridiculous...and completely unacceptable!  I don't remember clearly, but the more technically knowledgeable source said they need repacking every several thousand miles. Service intervals measured in hours are for offroad vehicles, such as dirtbikes where FMF is more well known. (Message edited by Freight_dog on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
I'm trying to remain unbiased and objective, so I'll just report what I heard, and that's the sales manager telling me repacking "about every 20 hours" was typical. Right now, I'm waiting for them to review the pics and get back to me. As long as they offer some kind of consolation, I'm cool with it. (i.e., repair parts at cost, etc.) And, to my knowledge, the FMF Apex for the 1125r is for off road vehicles only. | ||
| Froggy |
20 hours? Assuming you averaged 50 miles an hour (includes idle), that would be 1000 miles. A thousand miles can be banged out in an easy weekend, even off policed roads. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
And I thought the packing was for sound.  | ||
| Jules |
Re-packing carbon cans is unfortunately essential to stop the direct flow of heat from damaging them, it's not quite so critical in metal cans (other than the sound implications). 20 hours sounds REALLY short though, I know they're marketed as race cans but that really does seem to make them unsuited to any type of road use.. | ||
| The_rock |
I represent www.bristolcore.com and I live in the world of muffler packing and related materials. I found this thread intriguing so contacted FMF this morning to get their feedback on this situation. Here is their Director of R&D's take on the situation. "Here is the problem with re-pack interval suggestions. If you race a big displacement high RPM twin you may need to re-pack every race, most people who race (or even some track day participants) are unknowingly running around with empty or nearly empty muffler canisters. (you will usually see discoloration on the outside surfaces of the canister). Pro teams will service mufflers each race not just for reliability but for performance reasons. A properly packed muffler will create less turbulence and more power. Keep in mind this doesn't just apply to our product but any exhaust using packing. If you ride on the street at a commuter pace the packing can last thousands of miles maybe even a year or more! There is no one size fits all answer to the re-pack interval. I will try and track down this customers file and see if we can't resolve this for him." | ||
| Jdugger |
Update: FMF called. They are sending some replacement parts for repair at a very reasonable cost, so I call it case closed and satisfied from my perspective. My take away is those of us with this unit need to keep in mind it's not service-free. Apparently, it is true that not repacking the muffler when required will lead to damage of the carbon can. For someone like me doing 50-60 track days a year and riding WOT all the time, "when required" is going to be relatively short. For someone on the street, the interval will be much longer. Personally, I plan to just put it in the service schedule and check or repack every rear tire. That's about 3-4 track days for me, or 10-12 hours of motor time between checks. If I end up having to repack even every 20 hours, it's not that much extra service on a bike that's already pretty service intensive. Track brides need new shoes and bling pretty often, it seems. In speaking with FMF, the trade off is simple: A packed muffler gives the best performance over the widest range of engine speeds of any presently known solution. The mechanical designs used by OEMs that are chambered have resonances; So, they are lower maintenance, but do not perform as evenly across the entire range, weigh more, or both. The drawback of a packed design is a trade off of performance vs. service requirements. Seems reasonable. My motor has been down on power recently -- noticeably so -- and I wonder if this is the cause? I'll post up after next weekend and let you know what my butt tells me a repaired can does for performance. | ||
| 1324 |
For someone like me doing 50-60 track days a year and riding WOT all the time... 50-60!!!! Damn, I envy you. That is over 1 per week assuming you go all year round! | ||
| Forerunner |
Personally, I plan to just put it in the service schedule and check or repack every rear tire. That's about 3-4 track days for me, or 10-12 hours of motor time between checks. If I end up having to repack even every 20 hours, it's not that much extra service on a bike that's already pretty service intensive. Track brides need new shoes and bling pretty often, it seems. Jdugger, you are a machine! Nels | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Well, thats a deal breaker for FMF. Good thing i didn't go with them. Thats just insane! | ||
| Jdugger |
> Well, thats a deal breaker for FMF. Good thing i didn't go with them. Thats just insane! Well, take it for what it's worth, but my understanding now is ALL packed mufflers require this kind of attention. And, if it ain't packed, it's probably not a top performer. Also, keep in mind I'm doing a LOT more abuse to the bike than you likely are. Mine is ridden on the track only, frequently at WOT, and for 50-60 track days a year... yea, about once a week. It really comes as no surprise to me there's something else I need to service frequently. I go through *rotors* and rotor mounting hardware as fast as some of y'all do tires. It's just a whole new ballgame on the track. Stuff one would never worry about all of the sudden becomes a wear part when you start talking about a track bike. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
I guess i didn't read hard enough to know its a track bike only... BUT, since it is a track bike only, why haven't ya gone with full systems instead of a slip on? | ||
| Jdugger |
> why haven't ya gone with full systems instead of a slip on? My only real desire for the exhaust system was to shed weight. The OEM exhaust is pretty heavy. The full systems are expensive, and I wasn't looking for more power, just less weight. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Gotcha! | ||
| D_adams |
Jim, the RT3 weighs about 9.5-10 lbs for the whole thing if you decide to go with a little more durable can. All stainless, repackable and makes decent power, 10+ lbs less than stock. | ||
| The_rock |
Jdugger wrote-Well, take it for what it's worth, but my understanding now is ALL packed mufflers require this kind of attention. And, if it ain't packed, it's probably not a top performer. All packed mufflers do require this kind of attention but this is an area most often overlooked that directly affects performance. In addition to being a manufacturer's rep I repack mufflers as part of my track support program. It is a fact motorcycles run much better particularly in the mid range with a fresh repack. Motocross Action did a test on a 250cc four stroke and they gained 1.9 hp between 7K and 8K while adding a foot pound of torque across the power band. They are going to do a follow up article on a 450cc machine and I suspect they'll see an even bigger hp gain. I tell my customers to go with the best packing material so they can spend more time riding and less time repacking. Keeping water out of the can will also extend packing life as well as proper air/fuel ratio. (Message edited by the_rock on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Blur |
Good info in here. This thread reminded me to repack my can on my jap race bike. Aside from the color on a carbon can, you can also tell from the sound difference. If the pipe sounds more like a can and less like a good exhaust tone chances are you need to repack. I have a Ti can on my jap bike that I cut down to about 8" and it needs to be repacked a lot more frequently. The good thing is a repack job is easy. All you need is a drill, rivets and new packing. |
