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Milesdt
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 03:22 pm: | 
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Sorry in advance for the long post!
Ok, I have searched the far reaches of the BadWeb and the world wide web and I can't figure this out. My bike is intermittently cutting out for just a half second when I'm in any gear with low throttle input at like 2500-3500 rpm. It happens mostly at about 55-65mph. Sometimes it cuts out just once and that's it or sometimes it will cut out several times in a row. One time after a kind of hard ride, I pulled up to a stoplight and it died on me at idle. It started up and the rest of the way home it wanted to keep dying and cutting out. The next day, it just went back to the normal occasional stumble. When on the throttle or riding hard, the bike runs good. I almost forgot to add that I have a 2003 9R with the race kit with the k&n, race ecm, and factory race muffler.
The things I have done to try and fix this are:
1. I made a catch can/ breather hose reroute and plugged the holes in the airbox.
2. I cleaned my k&n filter and reoiled it
3. My intake cone thing was way off the throttle body so I bent the mount back to where the cone makes a good seal around the tb.
4. I did a TPS reset.
5. I ran a bottle of Lucas fuel injector cleaner.
I noticed that everytime I hook up to ecmspy my AFV is at 120-130 even after five minutes of riding. I also have gone to the diagnostic page and when the bike is idling, the cam position sensor box goes from 0 to 5 back and forth steadily most of the time, but other times it stays at 0 for several seconds. When the bike is warmed up, the ego volts jump anywhere from .1 to .9 and doesn't stay steady.
Thinking it may have been an 02 sensor problem, I reset my AFV to 100% and then I turned off my 02 sensor. I burned the changes to my ECM and went for a ride. When I came back, my AFV had gone up to 123. I thought the AFV changed because of the o2 sensor? With the o2 sensor off, it still did the stumble during my ride.
The bike throws no trouble codes current or in the history. I have bought two new spark plugs and I will change those tonight and check the resistance in my plug wires.
I have also inspected all the wiring on the bike and I can't find any chafing or open wires anywhere.
I have found threads that are kind of related to the problem, but not entirely because most of the other problems were much worse than mine.
I can post up my maps if that might help diagnose...
I also want to say thank you in advance for taking the time to read my thread and offer suggestions! |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:42 pm: |
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I had a similar symptoms on my X1 not long ago. I have had a failure intermittently
and the first time turned out be the Engine Temperature Sensor. Mine didn't throw any code in ECMSPY. I put a new one and solved.
The other time turned out the TPS was messed. After performed a TPS reset and setting TPSº in 5.2 I went for a test ride and it jumped all over like mad (strange electrical surge). This time the TPS was the culprit.
But the head temp sensor is also a very likely culprit. They can go bad and still not throw a fault code, and when they do, the engine can run pretty bad. I don't know a better way to test it than to just put a new one in. It can do really weird things.
An intake seal leak can do this. The O2 sensor sees extra air, it compensates by adding more fuel. And it isn't uncommon for the leak to get worse as the engine warms up, the cylinders get taller, and tug on the manifold more than when cold. Check it by spraying stuff at the manifold/head joint once the problem starts.
My guess: head Temp Sensor. The device is possessed. I've seen more problems that ended up being the head temp sensor. You can monitor head temp and see if it makes sense as a first test. But I usually only find out IF a problem is the head temp sensor by subbing in a known good one.
This may not be your problem but it’s an idea....
Good lucky!! |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 05:56 pm: |
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Since you are handy with ECMspy, use it to do some data logging and see what is recording when this occurs. It can help determine if something is amiss. Still, I would change those plugs. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 07:01 pm: |
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Thinking it may have been an 02 sensor problem, I reset my AFV to 100% and then I turned off my 02 sensor. I burned the changes to my ECM and went for a ride. When I came back, my AFV had gone up to 123
What I can not understand is how the AFV may change with the O2 off.
The AFV is set by comparing the injection duration obtained from the bike when running on the O2 sensor to that obtained from the map for the same operating point. For instance, lets say that the injection duration was 9 milliseconds as obtained from the O2 sensor, but the map yields a value of 10 Miliseconds. That would be a value of 9/10, or 90%. This would be the case if the bike was running at altitude in thinner air, and the 90 value would be used to scale the map dirived injection duration back so the bike doesn't run too rich.
A value of 123 is very high. Your bike is running lean, and the ECM is trying to compensate for that by scaling the map richer. But 123 is too high. Something is making your bike run lean.
I would also test for intake manifold seal leaks |
Milesdt
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - 09:21 pm: |
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So I got home and when the engine was still hot, I sprayed throttle body cleaner all around the intake gaskets where they meet the heads. I got no change at all, and just to be sure, I gave a quick squirt down the TB and it almost died. I pulled out the plugs and they are the Buell pro series ones with part number B12P on the side of them. I attached a picture of them. The front plug is on the left, and the rear is on the right. It looks to me like the bike is really lean. The new plugs I have to install are NGK DPR9EA-9. I also shot resistance on the plug wires and I got 3,600 ohms for the front wire and 4,100 ohms for the rear plug wire.
Also of note, I just thought of this after Buellisticx1's post about the head sensor. Sometimes after a long ride, my fan will not run when I turn the ignition off. But other times, it will run as normal. It has been off and on like that only a couple times, but maybe the head temp sensor?
I have attached my fuel maps, I don't know if they are lean or what, I don't know much about adjusting them. I just know how to do the basic ecmspy stuff, like fetching the maps and running diagnostics.
So I'm not sure if I should shotgun in a temp sensor or new plug wires or what. Thanks again for the suggestions so far.
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Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 05:09 am: |
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White plug indicates a lean condition, you are running leaner than normal. Something is making your bike run lean.
The race ECM was tuned for the combination of the race muffler and the original Race air cleaner. Therefore, since you have that exact combination, it should match exactly. but 123 is too high. Something is making your bike run lean.
Regards.
(Message edited by buellisticx1 on April 01, 2010) |
Milesdt
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 01:12 pm: |
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So I gapped and installed my new plugs today. I set my AFV to 100% and this time, I disconnected my o2 sensor. For the first 10 minutes or so, the bike didn't want to stay idling at a stop, but it ran fine at speed. After about the first 10 minutes, the bike started up its stumbling and cutting out like normal. After about 20 minutes, it got pretty bad, but luckily I was close to my destination. When I stopped the bike, the fan did not come on, and I was riding in 75 degree weather.
I hooked up to ecmspy about 5 minutes after I stopped, and my AFV was still at 100% and I had a historical trouble code for the o2 sensor. I cleared the code and reconnected the o2 sensor. Ecmspy said my engine temp was 60 degrees celsius. I put the bike back together so it is at least rideable for the trip home.
Also, the little slot that the tab under the seat goes under to hold it broke one of the welds today, yay!
Can the temp sensor cause the bike to run lean like that? |
Id073897
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 04:02 pm: |
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No, at 60 degC TE warmup enrichment stays active and will add fuel, so your bike seems more to run too rich, wich explains stumbling getting worse over time as the engine heats up. It does not explain the AFV rising, as with WUE active AFV would stay fixed. LCL requires 130 degC at least. Run a log and watch ETS data if it's a broken wire or a faulty sensor. |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 05:10 pm: |
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Maybe two issues at once; Intake seals and ETS. |
Milesdt
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 05:22 pm: |
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I'll try and run a datalog tonight when I get home. I don't have a tank bag, so I hope my usb cable is long enough for a backpack.... Could the intake seals still be bad even if I didnt find anything by spraying stuff on em? Could the exhaust seals be causing it? |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2010 - 06:36 pm: |
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Yes, either of them could be the cause of your problem (exhaust or/and intake seals)
You must to check an intake leak after the engine is thoroughly warmed up and hear/look if there is any significant change in idle.
A fuel pressure test wouldn't hurt either. |
Milesdt
| | Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 02:22 pm: |
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So I replaced my intake seals. The old ones looked alright, just a little stiff. My intake was gross so I cleaned that out and cleaned a little bit of grime off of the ends of the injectors. After about a couple hours total ride time, no sputter problems (yet)! I checked ecmspy after my first 10 minute run and it had my AFV at 111%. I haven't checked it since then.
But this weekend I bought a 2008 Super Glide Custom so the 9R is about to be on the market!
Thanks to all who helped me get my bike running better! |
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