| Author | Message | ||
     Koreyk125 |
I did the search and did not find what i was looking for, maybe because im new the to forum. Anyway Can I run my stock ECM with the FMF slip on pipe without hurting the motor? On the digital dash how do I see my AF numbers? I know they are supposed to be 100/100 but i cant figure out how to see them If I can install the pipe and use the stock ECM what numbers are safe to run, or what can i expect to see on my AF numbers? thanks in advance | ||
| Jeepinbueller |
Many are running aftermarket slipons without an EBR ECM or a tune — me included (Barker's). Runs absolutely fine, but even the stock bike could benefit from a good tune, so tuning/ECM swap is a good idea. You won't hurt anything by not doing it though unless you're getting excessive popping on decel. To enter diagnostics mode, hold both the IC buttons while you turn the key ON. Programming mode is entered by holding both the IC buttons down for a few seconds while the ignition is already ON. (Message edited by jeepinbueller on March 25, 2010) | ||
| 1_mike |
Will it run...sure. Will it run correctly...or as well as it could run...no. The as tuned stock ECM has the parameters delt out by the govt. that they say the way it should run, emissions wise. The ECM is designed to run lean at almost locations...even the "latest" maps (flashes?). Read into that what you like. It needs a proper tuneup...period. Mike (Message edited by 1_mike on March 25, 2010) | ||
| Ezblast |
 Sorry - that still doesn't say if it is really usable without a tune. An 08 and up XB can, with no problem - does the 1125 have similar capabilities? EZ | ||
| 1_mike |
Ez - And just HOW would you like it speeeeld out ? I guess on just what is considered "usable" to you...? OR...just how crappy will you accept the engine to run and be happy with it... Mike | ||
| Ezblast |
No - that is not the point - if the XB's can have a self adjusting ecm - to a point - then my question would be does the 1125 also have this feature? EZ | ||
| Kicka666 |
It will run far to lean, my 09 CR has a modified ECM with a FMF Apex, K&N my AFVs are locked at 118. | ||
| Froggy |
All DDFI3 bikes use the same FI system. Most of the parts are interchangeable between XB and 1125R, they even use the same ECM. The 1125R just has more sensors to work with. Although to answer your question, you will be too lean, just like the XB. | ||
| Easyrider |
+1 Froggy, SO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE IF YOU LOVE YOUR BIKE, UPDATE THE ECM | ||
| Bigblock |
Here is a pass with the FMF slip on pipe and stock CA ECM, Followed by the first pass with the EBR race ECM:   | ||
| Bigblock |
This is just to show what even getting the tuning in the ballpark can do, as this ECM has not been dynoed for my bike, it is out of the box from EBR. Easyrider also has a great rep, there are options out there for tuning your bike. I thought my bike ran OK with the slip on and stock ECM, until I put the race ECM in, I had no comparison to how it should run. I simply will not run it with the stock ECM anymore, the difference is HUGE. The reason I went with EBR is because I wanted to be able to swap ECM's out if necessary, but I certainly don't have the fastest or quickest 1125 out there. Here is my best pass of the night:  | ||
| Ezblast |
So it is self adjusting to a point, and should be able to run any slip on/air filter change with but a TPS reset? Because if the ECM is simular to the 08 and up XB's, then that is all you should have to do for such weak mods - seriously they are - its not like its a full on system with Headers, stacks and intake mods, which would require a re-map. Heck - I've kept up on this topic enough to know that over half the after-market slip-ons out there do no better than the stock. So again - granting that tuning the slip on with a good tune is the best way to go (I would personally go to Terry and Jim for mine - they are close and among the best) - Still does the 1125 ECM have the same corrective abilities as the XB to run a simple filter change out to K&N and a slip-on with but a TPS reset with out going too lean - the XB would correct itself and add fuel if required - preventing leaness - does the 1125? The XBs have this ability - does the 1125? This is a good question. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on March 26, 2010) | ||
| Froggy |
Ez, the stock exhaust is fantastic, it is hard to improve upon. Most of the gains are made with tuning. Even the Overpriced Sportbike tune made good number improvements with the stock exhaust. The XB does not have corrective abilities. Yes, they read the O2 sensor and add some extra fuel, but its nowhere near enough and only applies to closed loop operation. | ||
| Bigblock |
Hmm, I was just as reluctant until I saw the numbers and felt the difference. After what I have just experienced, I could absolutely NOT recommend a pipe with the stock CA ECM and no tune. I didn't drop a consistent 6 tenths and add 9 miles an hour to my trap speed because the thing was working right with the FMF pipe and the tock CA tune on the ECM. That is a huge difference, I am not trying to sell anything here, for there to be that much difference in HP, and the quality of the way it runs, it must be near to hurting the motor lean. I would Highly recommend AGAINST any pipe while maintaining the stock tune on your CA bike. I cannot speak for the 49 state bikes, as I don't have one. My quality in the way my bike ran was atrocious with the pipe and stock ecm, it ran a lot poorer compared to a tuned ecm or to the stock ECM with the stock pipe, it did adjust a bit after 50 to 100 miles, but I didn't realize how bad it was until I Swapped it out back to back at the drag strip and rode it around, as well as comparing the times, which you can see here. I know I am not any type of authority here, and don't claim to be. I don't tune bikes for a living, nor have I ever operated a dyno. I do however have many years of drag racing experience, mostly with a car, doing the tuning and building myself. This does not qualify me as an expert in anything Buell, but if you care about your bike, then get some type of ECM or tune with your performance exhaust. EBR makes a real nice and affordable plug and play ECM. Easyrider has a really great rep with his pipe and ECM tunes. He has tuned one of the first, if not THE first 1125 bikes to go 9 seconds in the 1/4 mile, this is verified, no BS. There is some other sort of bloke with tuning stuff, too. There is no longer any excuse, if you can afford a pipe now, you can afford atleast a bolt on tuning option, which WILL make it run WAY BETTER. I am not the only one saying this, I was not a believer myself, until I was holding the proof right in my crusty hands. Look closely at the dates and times on my timeslips. Go see Jim and Terry. Call EBR. Get ahold of Easyrider. Etc. Or don't, it's your bike. I'm not selling anything here. I have nothing to gain from this, the choice is yours. | ||
| Bigblock |
It is also my feeling that the main reason the stock exhaust tests so well against the slip-ons, is most of the testing has been done with either stock ECM or improperly tuned ECM. Even EBR has said the race ECM will give a better drivability with the stock pipe, but not help power much. Of course with my bike we are comparing a CA exhaust with a cat in it compared to the FMF, I suspect the 49 state muffler to be a bit better for performance than the CA pipe. YMMV. | ||
| Joebuell |
any logic to running a ebr ecm with the stock pipe and maybe an air filter? iguess if you're looking for noise then no. but if it performance on a budget is that a worthwile combo? | ||
| Bigblock |
Ask EBR, they would know. If I weren't lazy, I could put my stock CA muffler bacl on and take it to the races and time it with that and the EBR ECM, but I ran it two different nights last year with the stock pipe and ECM in two different configurations, and don't really want to do it over just for the sake of argument. Here are the runs from last year, sorry I can't find the time slips. Stock CA bike, no strap, 230# or so in gear,a best run of 12.29 at 113mph last week, with a couple 12.50 and a 12.33 at 110. Pulled inner airbox cover and ran two 11.87's at 117+mph, and a 11.98 hitting the revlimiter in 2nd +3rd(oops) a 12.1 getting off throttle and a 12.2 at 117 with a bad shift | ||
| Myotherbike |
Joebuell, excellent question. I was wondering the same thing. I like the look of the stock pipe myself and wouldn't mind throwing in a K&N and the EB ECM. | ||
| Stevek1125r |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/537829.html What ever happen to the testing this guy justa4banger did? he never updated what was going on... theres some good info in here besides the rubbish... | ||
| Buell77 |
I was wondering the same thing about justa4banger's testing. I wanted to get the EBR ecm and K&N. Still don't know which exhaust i want to get. Does anyone know the db's the fmf slip on gets with the quiet core installed in the quietest position. On the barker website they tell you the db range. 94 db with qc and 105 without. One of the tracks i want to go to has a 95 db limit. | ||
| Dannybuell |
I have seen the stock pipe removal procedure. For the purpose of simplified oil changes I would like to find a pipe that is the easiest to install and remove. I would be especially interested in hearing from Dean Adams and Barker owners. THX dannybuell | ||
| Reducati |
i have the ebr ecm, and an fmf slip on, with a quiet core in the mid quiet position...since setting my idle at 1200, it sounds perfect at idle, doesnt attract attention, doesnt sound like a helicopter anymore, sounds like a v twin! | ||
| Ezblast |
Since I couldn't get a straight answer here on this topic - I went to the experts - JTS - and asked Jim - does the stock ecm have a learning curve to adapt to a slip on and a K&N air filter - common mods that most people do, as the XB's 08 and later have. Jim said yes, it does have a learning curve and can handle a slip on and no other tuning needed. That in fact the stock ecm is a bit rich on the top end and that there should be no problem in doing so. However, he also said that a good tune using the EBR ecm (or a few other things coming down the pipe line - ) would be better for getting the most out of your purchase. The reason I kept on this, probably exasperating the lot of you, was because Erik had said in the past that he was developing an ecm that could handle such simple deviations, and that the 08's and up where/are supposed to be the answer to that problem. Not trying to be contrary, but I've been here a while and wanted clarification. And I got it, and now you have it. EZ | ||
| D_adams |
Dannybuell -- For the systems I build, if you have the bike on a rear stand, you won't get any oil on the pipe during an oil change unless you remove the screen on the right side. Even then, it will be a very small amount which can either be diverted with cardboard or sprayed/wiped off easily. If you don't remove the screen, you won't get any oil on the exhaust at all. If you're wanting to remove the pipe I build, it's either one or two bolts/nuts (depending on the model) and 2 clamps and it's off. 10 minutes if you're doing it very slowly, drinking a beer between bolts. BL lime works well in this situation. That said, you really don't need to remove the pipe for an oil change, just use aluminum foil or cardboard to keep the oil off the pipe and you're good to go. This will free up more beer time.  I don't know about the Barker's pipe, I don't have one. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Well you are entitled to ask whoever you want. That's still not the same as getting the hardware, installing it, and testing it. I bought a slip on, K&N and ran it on the stock ECM. Sure the bike ran but it didn't run great. It sounded off to my ear. And there was a distinct lack of grunt. I tried the Jardine Pro Tune III and it did change the way the exhaust note sounded and seemed to help with some of the lower RPM snapping and popping and lack of grunt. But it still did not feel like it was right. I then installed the EBR Race ECM and for the first time since I installed the slip on and filter the bike feels just right. I gave the stock ECM plenty of miles to try and learn the pipe/filter change...but it never sounded right. The Adaptive Fuel Ratio in the Diagnostic mode did change considerably...but I don't think that in itself is enough to get a good running bike. I strongly suggest using a recalibrated ECM when making changes to the intake or exhaust. | ||
| Froggy |
Whats wrong with getting oil on a pipe? Its just a rustproofing   | ||
| D_adams |
I just wish you were closer to St Louis so you could hear it in person. These have never sounded like a helicopter or machine gun. The tone on mine is much deeper than a Jardine or FMF and it shows HP gains everywhere across the board, although most is above 7500 rpm. Maybe you'll see it at the Homecoming. Not sure who's going or not, but I am planning on it. I will most likely run my original setup unless I get an X-pipe system done before then. | ||
| Ezblast |
For me - If I ever went with any aftermarket breathing changes, I would seek out an ECM recalibration or tune. But this would allow one to budget for that separately - one piece a month type of thing - that way the improvements per item become evident as well. Just a thought for the budget type folks like myself - lol EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
Also he said there is going to be an 1125 exhaust shootout happening soon - so stay tuned! lol EZ | ||
| Easyrider |
Koreyk125, www.fuelsolutions.nl can solve your problem | ||
| 1_mike |
Some of the logic as read on this thread is truly astonishing. Some of you need to relearn what it takes to make an engine run. Then apply some more learning to find "how" changes to one system, effect other systems....and so on. Yea...and the earth shattering, all power enhancing....K&N filter...for the street....!? Sorry...just had to get my rant of the day out... Mike | ||
| Ezblast |
LOL - besides weight and sound, a K&N and any slip-on is not going to add much of anything to any bike. The best at most a pony or three. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on March 30, 2010) |
